Plasto Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 9 hours ago, Ali62 said: The kit will only appear in early January, I have that information directly from Airfix. With your inside knowledge do you know if the sprues will contain the big tanks for the F6a? Also are Airfix planning on anything around the notched flaps for the F6a and FGA9?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Aero Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 I find that sometimes some modellers are so fixated on the minutiae of minor detail on a kit that hasn't reached the shops yet, that they fail to see the bigger picture, or indeed the massive effort involved to bring you this new kit. The team at Airfix are a dedicated and first class bunch who have, like the rest of us to fit in with budgetary restraints, deadlines and resources. Also they want to do their best but they can't be experts on every aircraft or other vehicle, they want to produce, or indeed have unlimited research time. So they also talk to other people who by virtue of their knowledge, or have, or know of resources, and who might be in a position to help. Many well known foreign companies don't. to their cost Airfix in my opinion are doing their very best to meet the criteria. They are not only using the best design technology but where possible they use cutting edge stuff like LIDAR. Technically the whole modelling game has changed out of all proportion with CAD, 3.D printing and LIDAR etc. Take the last of these, it's incredible to see the results but the most boring thing in the world to see in action. It's detail is such, it will get confused over the thickness of paint on a serial number and it will record any tiny dent or even bullet holes in an aeroplanes tail. It records precisely what it sees. However it doesn't have the function to notice that the target aeroplane's oleo legs haven't been charged with Nitrogen for a long time so the sit is wrong as the legs are compressed. The first time that this might be noticed is on the 3 D renders, when someone external to the design team is asked to "have a look these and tell us what you think". Even then tiny details might still be missed, but the important ones are usually picked up. A more precise question of another type, might be "what's the gen on the two different aileron trim tabs we've noticed on photos" The answer was actually three types! So why not wait until the kit is in your hands, so you can see that there are perhaps parts there, which aren't needed in your kit, but give a clue to another version. Remember humans aren't infallible either. John 16 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Uncool Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 17 minutes ago, John Aero said: Remember humans aren't infallible either. John! Just wanted to tell you that ever since I got a sample of your 1/48 Vulcan B.2 kit, I've built an altar in your honour, to which I bow down to every morning. Respects, my mate! Unc2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloegin57 Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 54 minutes ago, John Aero said: I find that sometimes some modellers are so fixated on the minutiae of minor detail on a kit that hasn't reached the shops yet, that they fail to see the bigger picture, or indeed the massive effort involved to bring you this new kit. The team at Airfix are a dedicated and first class bunch who have, like the rest of us to fit in with budgetary restraints, deadlines and resources. Also they want to do their best but they can't be experts on every aircraft or other vehicle, they want to produce, or indeed have unlimited research time. So they also talk to other people who by virtue of their knowledge, or have or know of resources, and who might be in a position to help. Many well known foreign companies don't. to their cost Airfix in my opinion are doing their very best to meet the criteria. They are not only using the best design technology but where possible they use cutting edge stuff like LIDAR. Technically the whole modelling game has changed out of all proportion with CAD, 3.D printing and LIDAR etc. Take the last of these, it's incredible to see the results but the most boring thing in the world to see in action. It's detail is such, it will get confused over the thickness of paint on a serial number and it will record any tiny dent or even bullet holes in an aeroplanes tail. It records precisely what it sees. However it doesn't have the function to notice that the target aeroplane's oleo legs haven't been charged with Nitrogen for a long time so the sit is wrong as the legs are compressed. The first time that this might be noticed is on the 3 D renders, when someone external to the design team is asked to "have a look these and tell us what you think". Even then tiny details might still be missed, but the important ones are usually picked up. A more precise question of another type, might be "what's the gen on the two different aileron trim tabs we've noticed on photos" The answer was actually three types! So why not wait until the kit is in your hands, so you can see that there are perhaps parts there, which aren't needed in your kit, but give a clue to another version. Remember humans aren't infallible either. John Spot on John ! DR 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayprit Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 8 minutes ago, sloegin57 said: I find that sometimes some modellers are so fixated on the minutiae of minor detail on a kit that hasn't reached the shops yet, that they fail to see the bigger picture, or indeed the massive effort involved to bring you this new kit. Well said John, about time mention was made of speculation not just this kit but many more that have recently been released in the past, Canberras and Phantoms spring to mind. I have been waiting to see a question asking for tyre pressures of various aircraft or what colour are the socks that the pilots wearing or likely to wear!!!!……………...I feel at times this site drifts way past the enjoyment of a modelling site into a technician site...………..I read a thread on sabre wings yesterday relating to air flow over various parts of the wing which tended to remind me of "Open University"...……..did my head in!!!!! I see none of this on other modelling sites...………...I look on this site as a Technicians site...………….I just build and look at reviews 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasto Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 1 hour ago, John Aero said: I find that sometimes some modellers are so fixated on the minutiae of minor detail on a kit that hasn't reached the shops yet, that they fail to see the bigger picture, or indeed the massive effort involved to bring you this new kit. I think everyone appreciates the effort. I’m sure it will be a great kit and sell well. Research, design and the creation of tooling and production of model kits from that tooling is the business Airfix are in... Along with an increasing number of competitors in an increasingly busy market place with a surfeit of products of every type. The pairing of CAD with CAM has reduced the cost of tooling and in doing so has removed what was a traditional barrier to market entry ( design and production of tooling) So with the market disrupted by this it would seem to be competitive and to have a measure of success it appears to the casual observer that you need to release things regularly. They need to offer something new to the market either a new subject in a given scale or an improvement of some type over existing offerings. To do that regularly takes resource and costs.. It is if you like the price you have to pay if you want to play in the market. What the market demands is ever evolving and is driven by a changing demographic of purchasers, expectations set by market norms, social media ‘view’ and styles and trends. This isn’t what traditionally happened but it’s the reality of the market now. So research , LIDAR, CAD etc would appear to be business as usual items you need if you want to be successful in the industry along with good engineering of the kit, good production values and a Channel to market and savvy social media and marketing skills. The good thing is Airfix has the ability to do all of that stuff really well. Some aspects better than others but the ability to do it is apparent. I’m sure the Hunter kit will reflect this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedders Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 9 hours ago, John Aero said: Airfix in my opinion are doing their very best to meet the criteria. They are not only using the best design technology but where possible they use cutting edge stuff like LIDAR. Just to chip in as an average punter - I'm sure that everyone on this forum wants Airfix to be successful. I know I do. The quality and accuracy of the product seems to improve with every new issue. I'm not a 1/48 man but the new Spitfire XIV, the recent Meteor, Mustang and Sea Fury and the new Hunter all look excellent, and I hope they generate good revenue for the company to enable it to grow and prosper. Hope it doesn't forget us 1/72 folks though! Justin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammy da fish Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 I concur with John’s comments whole heartedly. I get very upset when I see on here some so called subject experts spouting off on here about certain aspects of a model not even released yet. Most have never even worked on these lovely subjects but are able pontificate to the Enith degree about this rivet or that panel line. Most of the time they don’t get the right picture. I take a case to show you what I mean. Sea Fury 1/48 someone was saying that the rivets on an oval panel on the side of the tail was wrong in some way. Well although I have never worked on such an interesting subject being to young(57) and working for the RAF and not the RN. Going back to that oval panel it is not riveted at all but was removable for servicing purposes with countersunk screws. Secondly and to get another thing of my chest- Rivets it took years for me to perfect the art of fitting these bloody things. Literally thousands of them. I spent a lot of time reducing some to within 5 Thou of the skin. I would have a normal rejection rate of about 5% that I needed to sort in some way. There are many types of rivet used as well ranging from hitalumium these are nice mauve coloured ones, tucker pops which most people know and the Joy of Joy to use a Jo bolt. The point I am try in make here is that we aircraft maintainers are in the main trying to get rid of a rough surface to provide as smooth a surface as possible. Where as the modern trend in modelling for some people is get the riveting tool out we must put all of the rivets back in NO look at your subject in detail first see which rivet lines are prominent some may be domed rivets or Dzus fasteners or some other fixing. This is just a rant as it gets me unset the vast majority are not looking hard enough at your subject yes Airfix may get it wrong but so do other manufactures. Look how wrong the New 1/72 B-52 is? Can you imagine Airfix getting that wrong OMG. Simon 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truro Model Builder Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 Very wise words from John and sammy. Thank you to both of you. I hope you don't get the flaming that I have in the past for saying similar. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixII Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 Don't think they will Truro @Truro Model Builder John, @John Aero has owned production companies for a few years now (I know, visited two unannounced, and as always John was a Gentleman) and is well known to most on here. Simon, @sammy da fish has, like more than a few, 'played' with the full size beasties, so his comments are made from a position of knowledge rather than supposition. Anyway, there's more of us than there are of them........ Paul 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Aero Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 A flame war (of which I would not be a participant) would be pointless and I think this is not intended by anyone. As ever, thank you for the supportive remarks. What was intended by my own opinions and comments in my post was to point out that all of us are fallible and also the lengths which Airfix (to my knowledge) will go to achieve the best result within the constraints of business. I was/am not speaking for Airfix in any way and any comments I make are from occasional personal experiences, when my help was freely given. As it is to some other companies and each is confidential unless the other party chooses to reveal association before the kit is released. Each additional cavity for a further part in a kit costs a great deal of money so each company has to choose carefully which versions will give the necessary returns. I'm talking personally again here. Every colour variation on a decal sheet also costs a great deal of money. So I would always try to find the schemes that can be encompassed by the standard colour palette of Red, White, Blue, Black and Yellow with perhaps one or occasionally two others. Squadron badges are a pain as they added Gold, and light Blue for starters. I made my first model aeroplane from wood and paper at the age of about 8 using no more references than a picture of a Breguet airliner on a Players cigarette card, and I've never stopped learning since. John 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldeagle Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 I will be delighted to see this kit arrive,even if it is very slightly imperfect.I would love to see some of the critics have to cope with the likes of the Lindberg "Mig19",or the early Revell 1/72nd P51,with the beautiful,but fanciful box art.I started out modelling by carving blocks of balsa,making templates and learning the mysteries of sanding sealer and using flour paper.I even built a balsa 1/72nd "Lancaster",just before Airfix released their original kit.I hated that it was better than my effort in most respects.I feel that the quality of modern kit offerings has improved so much,that I find some of the criticism of new releases a little puzzling,though the information on the Hunter wing tip shape is noted.I might have missed it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 21 hours ago, Plasto said: With your inside knowledge do you know if the sprues will contain the big tanks for the F6a? Also are Airfix planning on anything around the notched flaps for the F6a and FGA9?? My understanding is it’s a purely F6, apart from the (unused) tail brake fairing jet pipe. No evidence, but I suspect a little misunderstanding about what constituted an F6A, hence the change in decals. Hopefully an FGA9 version with extra parts in the future. (And the clear sprue makes me wonder if a FR10 is on the cards too, as well as a GA11, as it has two different sized clear parts that look like nose tips.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo the Magnificent Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 I'm pretty sure that aftermarket resin manufacturers will release all the conversion parts we need in very short order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 13 minutes ago, Enzo Matrix said: I'm pretty sure that aftermarket resin manufacturers will release all the conversion parts we need in very short order. Good, 'cos I wanna do a Germany based F. 4 and I already have the decals for a bucket load of T. 7's. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo the Magnificent Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 We already know that @Ali62 at Aerocraft has a T7 conversion in the pipeline. Put me down for one, Ali. That's gonna look smashing in the classic trainer scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali62 Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 I do not know exactly what Airfix has planned, but I know they do have quite a few versions / Mk.'s on the way in time, so from me it will be the two seaters mainly for now, as they are not venturing in that direction. I think that any of the more complex conversions maybe short lived in resin, however I am sure we shall see lots of detailing bits from the likes of Eduard etc. As of earlier comments about larger tanks and notched flaps, well those may not be in the first box release I am not 100% sure, so I may have not been 100% correct, however having the exhaust options caters for the more tricky of the areas to be changed, however we shall see what can be done as an interim solution re flaps and tanks if required.........maybe possibly........ Ali 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Uncool Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 17 hours ago, Wez said: and I already have the decals for a bucket load of T. 7's. Noooiiiiiceeee...!!! Can I see those, please, Wez? Cheers, Unc2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guillaume320 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Here's a sheet covering two seat Hunters: https://www.fantasyprintshop.co.uk/shop/fantasy-printshop-airfile-fpaf-48-002-hawker-hunter-twin-seater/ G 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali62 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 My two seaters will come with some decals. I am still deciding how best to sort and do variations / boxing or to do a few stand alone sheets.........I will see and decide over the next month or so. Ali 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopkp Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 34 minutes ago, Ali62 said: My two seaters will come with some decals. I am still deciding how best to sort and do variations / boxing or to do a few stand alone sheets.........I will see and decide over the next month or so. Ali Can I put in a vote for markings for a Swiss two-seater? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corel Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) I know. You will kill me. Yep. I feel it. Thanks to Hornby, and Airfix, the christmas arrived for me. A perfect personal present for every-british-tihng lover (yep, thats me) modeller. Direct post pack from the Hornby HQ especially for me. And please don't blame the firm. I'm a single man, not a wholsale, logistic nightmare. Edited December 10, 2018 by Corel 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 8 hours ago, Uncle Uncool said: Noooiiiiiceeee...!!! Can I see those, please, Wez? Cheers, Unc2 Well... 1 hour ago, guillaume320 said: Here's a sheet covering two seat Hunters: https://www.fantasyprintshop.co.uk/shop/fantasy-printshop-airfile-fpaf-48-002-hawker-hunter-twin-seater/ G ...yep, these are they. The captions to some of the profiles aren't correct but as all of the schemes are in the AIRfile book its no problem for me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasto Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Good work Corel... is is that s special shipment or are they now ‘generally’ available??? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corel Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, Plasto said: Good work Corel... is is that s special shipment or are they now ‘generally’ available??? Thanks a lot, but all merits of Airfix. It is specially for me. As I know, they are selling in january. Edited December 11, 2018 by Corel misspell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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