Navy Bird Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, perdu said: Nice shot of MY antenna there Bill, ouch I don't know how you could miss the red flag attached to it. Or, for that matter, why you were inside those stanchions to begin with. Granted, they're low enough to step over but still...they must have put them there for some reason. Modellers, always have to get underneath and look up into the nooks and crannies... Cheers, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SallysDad Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Very detailed and careful work. I must say, I can't figure out Airfix sometimes..... this is a kit so many would like to have, in both the Great Scales, but it is now so hard to find. Please Airfix, bring it out again, at a decent price. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 More mundane reason Bill When my modelling club attend the Shropshire Modellers Show we usually get tables inside the barrier in front of TSR2 There wasn't a flag there the times I got impaled Twice so far.... 😕 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 21 minutes ago, perdu said: More mundane reason Bill When my modelling club attend the Shropshire Modellers Show we usually get tables inside the barrier in front of TSR2 There wasn't a flag there the times I got impaled Twice so far.... 😕 I hear you. I can't tell you how many times I bonked my noggin on trailing and leading edges of aircraft in museums. Even the same aircraft several times, I'm such a dolt. Thank God it wasn't an F-104 or SR-71, something with sharp edges. I might have accidentally had that lobotomy I've always wanted (needed?). Cheers, Bill 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Bit of googling and I found this short video of the Cosford example Hope this helps Trevor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I can recommend this book some good detailed photos are in it https://www.1001modelkits.com/aviation-books/7051-cmk-czech-master-kits-cmk1004-bac-tsr-2.html Robert 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I think the canopies of the TSR-2 are indeed slightly tinted and darken our perception of the colour. The photo in the Thornborough book is a direct view (view from starboard side into the open cockpit with a reasonable amount of the coaming visible between the instrument panel and the windscreen hoop). That said, the basic cockpit shows as a bluer grey than in either of the pictures you post. I'm still happy with my Ocean Grey thought. Anyway, it's a colour darker than the cockpit interior and not black or off-black. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob G Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 16 hours ago, Navy Bird said: panel lines, which you shouldn't be washing anyways. Heresy! The Panel Line Enforcement Squad will be around to 'ave words wif you. (I agree with your thoughts, BTW.) 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hairystick Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 On 1/10/2018 at 8:43 AM, Navy Bird said: @hairystick - any chance you could post the photos you took of the coaming? Darn. I knew that you were going to ask that! My boto-smeg-it account has that dreaded curse of demanding extortion, so will now be forced to open a flikr account and will post when I have worked out how! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Swindell Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 3 hours ago, Navy Bird said: The previous two photos show the cockpits as of February 1965, I believe, and should be a pretty good representation of what was used. The same two photos appear in Damien Burke's book, and are not labelled as photos of mock-ups, where other photos specifically are. I'm guessing these are the cockpits on XR219. Hi Bill, nice going so far! The one airframe that rear cockpit photo ISN'T is XR219. This is shown in Burke pp116-117 and is quite spartan, just some flight instruments and test instruments. XR220-XR222 would also have had test instrumentation fitted (a quick scan through a couple of books doesn't throw up any attributed photos), so as the above purports to be the state of the rear cockpit as of Feb 65 I don't think it's any of these 3 either. The mockup's Burke identifies are earlier wooden ones, I'd tend towards this being more of a "trial fit", possibly in one of the pre-production airframes? Canopies and windscreen were gold plated, both for anti-flash and radar suppression (stealth), they have a yelowy bronzy tint to them. Regarding Perdu's scalp injuries, we used to display under the Bristol 188 airbrakes, these were equally vicious! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hairystick Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) Testing, Testing! 1, 2, 3. Let's try that again... IMG_1033a by Arthur Dent, on Flickr Ooooh! Smoke and mirrors = magic! IMG_1033 by Arthur Dent, on Flickr Very nice of them. Flikr gave me a whole terrabyte. I'll have to go and clear out the garage to house all of it. Click on those linkies to go to the album. There are a load more in there now. Hope they help in some way! Edited January 10, 2018 by hairystick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 36 minutes ago, Dave Swindell said: I'd tend towards this being more of a "trial fit", possibly in one of the pre-production airframes? Canopies and windscreen were gold plated, both for anti-flash and radar suppression (stealth), they have a yelowy bronzy tint to them. Regarding Perdu's scalp injuries, we used to display under the Bristol 188 airbrakes, these were equally vicious! Trial fit makes sense to me, thanks. Thanks @hairystick those are great photos! I found this photo today of the coaming (this is XR220), but again it's through the windscreen. I knew about the yellow/gold tint and I've been thinking about how to replicate that. Gunze Clear Yellow probably. Burke and McLelland state that the gold film laminated in-between the perspex was for electrically generated deicing and demisting (with a "bonus" that it reduced the radar signature a bit). Maybe I should try that on my car! McLelland seems to imply (it isn't clear) that the centre windscreen did not have the gold film, and was instead demisted by hot air blowing across it. Both authors state that anti-flash protection in production aircraft was to be accomplished with curtains, with some, but not all, automatically deployed based on release timing of the weapon. Speaking of Burke, I know that he used to post here occasionally, so I started searching for any tips he may have posted on the TRS2. I did find one that answered my recent question - the gear bays and struts were painted grey (some of the internal gear door and panel surfaces were white), and "LAG" was a good match. So I thought great, which LAG? Light Admiralty Grey or Light Aircraft Grey? Going back in that thread, it became apparent that he was referring to Light Admiralty Grey, which makes sense to me. In the past, I've used Gunze H417 for this, it's their version of RLM76. I think someone here on BM gave me that idea. Cheers, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Swindell Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 10 minutes ago, Navy Bird said: Burke and McLelland state that the gold film laminated in-between the perspex was for electrically generated deicing and demisting (with a "bonus" that it reduced the radar signature a bit). Maybe I should try that on my car! McLelland seems to imply (it isn't clear) that the centre windscreen did not have the gold film, and was instead demisted by hot air blowing across it. Both authors state that anti-flash protection in production aircraft was to be accomplished with curtains, with some, but not all, automatically deployed based on release timing of the weapon. Sorry Bill, you're right there. It's been a while since I read the book and was quoting from memory, only got the story half right. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 Based on the sound reasoning presented by everyone, including the nice video posted by @Max Headroom (you have to look fast), I've painted the coaming with a darker grey, and as soon as I have my supper I'll be painting the wheel wells with my imitation Light Admiralty Grey. It'll all work out in the end, I promise you. Well, unless I cock it up I suppose... Cheers, Bill 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David H Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 File this under the, "That idea sounds so crazy.....it just might work!!" department: How about adding Tamiya Clear yellow to a jar of Future, and then just dipping the canopies? d-smack 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted January 11, 2018 Author Share Posted January 11, 2018 1 hour ago, David H said: File this under the, "That idea sounds so crazy.....it just might work!!" department: How about adding Tamiya Clear yellow to a jar of Future, and then just dipping the canopies? Why not? Sounds like it would work. Just need to get the ratios right. As Eno once said, "looking for a certain ratio..." So, these are going to need some work: Not sure how well this shows up in the picture, but the cross section of the outer intake profile doesn't quite match the fuselage. To be honest, the kit parts don't fit very well either, and since I paid for this resin I'm going to use it! Ha, all it needs is some PPP and gentle sanding. That's one big issue with resin - it's so much softer than styrene, it makes it hard to get a nice smooth join of the two without sanding too much resin away. I've got an idea though... Cheers, Bill 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) Exciting times a'coming How about hardening the resin intakes with a skin of cyano/stuporgoo? It would need sanding to remove inevitable ripples but you'd do that as you finish manhandling the Airfixey parts of the intakes anyway They look as if they might have shrunk post-casting don't they 😕 Edited January 11, 2018 by perdu 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianthemodeller Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) Hi Bill, This is shaping up to be a superb rendition. I have a few reference photos I took at Cosford a while ago if they are of any help: http://s79.photobucket.com/user/brianthemodeller/slideshow/TSR2 ref Brian Edited January 11, 2018 by brianthemodeller 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted January 11, 2018 Author Share Posted January 11, 2018 7 hours ago, perdu said: How about hardening the resin intakes with a skin of cyano/stuporgoo? It would need sanding to remove inevitable ripples but you'd do that as you finish manhandling the Airfixey parts of the intakes anyway They look as if they might have shrunk post-casting don't they 😕 I'm sure that will be one of the techniques used to properly fair the intakes into the fuselage. And I think you're right about the shrinkage, as one intake is slightly smaller than the other as well. Ah, the joy of resin - remember how I had somehow acquired and additional set of avionics bay and ejection seats. The extra avionics bay is significantly warped - it's a candidate for the boiling water dip. 6 hours ago, brianthemodeller said: This is shaping up to be a superb rendition. I have a few reference photos I took at Cosford a while ago if they are of any help: Thanks - all reference photos help! Overall, I think the kit is a good representation of the real thing. I know there are some accuracy concerns (the front windscreen comes to mind) and fit problems (wing with fuselage) but when all is said and done the model looks good. I'll try to fix what I can and make excuses for why I'm too lazy to fix the rest. Cheers, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David H Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 13 hours ago, Navy Bird said: Why not? Sounds like it would work. Just need to get the ratios right. As Eno once said, "looking for a certain ratio..." So, these are going to need some work: Not sure how well this shows up in the picture, but the cross section of the outer intake profile doesn't quite match the fuselage. To be honest, the kit parts don't fit very well either, and since I paid for this resin I'm going to use it! Ha, all it needs is some PPP and gentle sanding. That's one big issue with resin - it's so much softer than styrene, it makes it hard to get a nice smooth join of the two without sanding too much resin away. I've got an idea though... Cheers, Bill I know its a complex shape, but that has got to be one of the most infuriating things about resin detail parts; so many manufacturers out there don't have any kind of QA process to guard against the wild variability in size that can occur from part to part. Considering what you paid, no excuse for them to match up this poorly. They really should line up a bit better than that. -d- 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 I gave the insides of the canopies on my TSR2 builds a coat of Tamiya Clear Orange. Martian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted January 11, 2018 Author Share Posted January 11, 2018 28 minutes ago, Martian Hale said: I gave the insides of the canopies on my TSR2 builds a coat of Tamiya Clear Orange. Martian Did you do the pilot's forward panel too? I've read some things that indicate perhaps only the side panels of the windscreen had the gold film. Just curious. Cheers, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 6 minutes ago, Navy Bird said: Did you do the pilot's forward panel too? I've read some things that indicate perhaps only the side panels of the windscreen had the gold film. Just curious. Cheers, Bill I just did the opening sections of the canopies. At the time opinion was divided as to whether the windshield was tinted or not so I just flipped a coin and went with untinted windshield. Martian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roys Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Regarding the engine intakes, I have a copy of the 2013 publication "Build & Convert No3"-SAM Publications. Page 91 "resin parts way too small, and without major reshaping of the fuselage would not fit. I resorted to using the kit intakes, scratch building inlet trunking and supplementary intake doors from plastic card." Author Tony Gloster. Not stopped me from buying one though! I am wondering if packing them out from the fuselage side would help? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 The resin that Bill showed us clearly has little in relationship to the kit Rather like the arguments we've seen about a certain cockpit etch replacement company we've seen in these annals they might have been made to drawings from the aircraft maker but they would have been far superior if they'd been scaled to suit the MODEL... BUT as it is Bill building this we are guaranteed a treat Bill'll-fix-it 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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