sloegin57 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, canberra kid said: Here are are some photos of component production at Samlesbury. John John @canberrakid Are these photos of the rear fuselage credited to Salmesbury or Shorts at Belfast ? Dennis Edited January 20, 2018 by sloegin57 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Got one on the go at the mkoment (planning on the 700P scheme for it, so I need the early fin. So I have a look at it and find this. Does anyone else have a short shot fincap? It's not a problem, as I am also planning some RWR versions as well, but I thought it wise to post it here. This will be from the Hannants sheet so David I will send you some shots when completed. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, sloegin57 said: John @canberrakid Are these photos of the rear fuselage credited to Salmesbury or Shorts at Belfast ? Dennis Dennis the only one that has a Samlesbury accreditation is the one of the rear fuselage being maneuvered into position and the note on the neg is 'F-4K Rear Fuselage Assembly Samlesbury Ref AW19455' it is possible the caption is incorrect, but I have no way of checking. John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 20 minutes ago, sloegin57 said: Pity about that John as the two official schemes you published so far I could not even get at Leuchars - so thanks for those. In the mean time and with your access to Wartons archives, would it be possible to have a hunt through and try and find some shots of the Phantom rear ends and Phantom tailplanes being manufactured in the UK ? Big task - but I now that you are up to it Dennis looks like you beat me to it - thanks John Dennis, the three photos I posted are the only ones that have come to light so far, there are big gaps in the scand neg's and a lot have gone 'missing' but the team are hard at it scanning and digitising as much as they can get. A lot of things went to Farnborough over the years too. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tomohawk Kid Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 I guess it would not be out of place on this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-cornwall-42750033/ark-royal-model-started-in-1992-is-ready Thomo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloegin57 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, canberra kid said: Dennis, the three photos I posted are the only ones that have come to light so far, there are big gaps in the scand neg's and a lot have gone 'missing' but the team are hard at it scanning and digitising as much as they can get. A lot of things went to Farnborough over the years too. John Thanks for that John. I have had a dig through the books and came across this from Bill Gunston's book on the type under the general heading of "RAF Aircraft Today : 1" by Ian Allen. Should answer @Duncan B original query. I knew that Shorts came in somewhere :- Dennis Edited January 20, 2018 by sloegin57 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, sloegin57 said: In the mean time and with your access to Wartons archives, would it be possible to have a hunt through and try and find some shots of the Phantom rear ends and Phantom tailplanes being manufactured in the UK ? As I understand it, major construction was shared out like this, Outer wings, ie the folding portions and flaps - Shorts Belfast Tailplanes - BAC Preston Rear fuselages - HSA Brough (*but clearly contradicts Johns picture at Preston above) Much of the electronics - Ferranti HSA/EMI recon pod - HSA Rolls Royce for the Spey engines After the the last Phantom delivery by McD, Brough would completely take over as DA and as the mod and support for all British Phantoms. Not sure if it worked out in the end but British parts were meant to equate to 45% (by value) of a complete Phantom. It is interesting to note that the period 1965-68 was quite hard work for British Phantom design, with many set backs (mainly the extra drag, and component compatibility) all with the inevitable bad press. Edited January 20, 2018 by 71chally * line in brackets 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Thanks Dennis (@sloegin57) and James (@71chally) I've just found this list in the McDonnell F.4 UK Brochure, it's good to know the caption isn't wrong. John 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Just saying - do we think it’s time to re-title this thread into something like ‘The ultimate Spey Phantom guru page’ and have it pinned by the mods?? This thread has morphed into something very special, especially by the excellent contributions of those who were there or those not very far from all the action. Certainly one to bookmark. Cheers.. Dave 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 That's brilliant John, when I wrote my last post I hadn't realised that there were several other posts made on the subject - apologies. Must have been one of the few occasions that BAC and HSA worked together! Brilliant info coming through. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloegin57 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, 71chally said: After the the last Phantom delivery by McD, Brough would completely take over as DA and as the mod and support for all British Phantoms. Not sure if it worked out in the end Got to be careful here but from my, and others, point of view in Eng Ops - it was a bloody nightmare. With so many locations responsible for so many maintenance programmes it was often difficult to work out as to where an aircraft was to be sent. There was Aldergrove, Leconfield, Brough and St Athan all with there own little tasks plus all the mod programmes initiated by DA at Brough - usually running all at the same time. I mentioned earlier that we always seemed short of aircraft and thats why. Usually there was around a quarter to one third of the entire fleet, FG.1 and FGR.2, away from their Units for some reason and when the ambitious RN/RAF transfer programme was introduced and then cut time wise quite dramatically it all had to be fed into the then current and ongoing programmes. Then, if those of a certain age will recall, the 70's was and is famous for Industrial Action which affected the Phantom Fleet considerably. Eventually all was rationalised and centred on RAF St Athan. Dennis Edited January 20, 2018 by sloegin57 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 1 hour ago, PhantomBigStu said: I’m doing the triple one ac from ‘86 on the xtradecal sheet Good choice, no dancing chicken Duncan B 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertF Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 39 minutes ago, Rabbit Leader said: Just saying - do we think it’s time to re-title this thread into something like ‘The ultimate Spey Phantom guru page’ and have it pinned by the mods?? This thread has morphed into something very special, especially by the excellent contributions of those who were there or those not very far from all the action. You're absolutely right! And perhaps delete some "ïnterference" (i.e. non-contributing) posts (like my own) in the process? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 50 minutes ago, Rabbit Leader said: Just saying - do we think it’s time to re-title this thread into something like ‘The ultimate Spey Phantom guru page’ and have it pinned by the mods?? This thread has morphed into something very special, especially by the excellent contributions of those who were there or those not very far from all the action. Certainly one to bookmark. Cheers.. Dave Dave, I'd have to agree. Some of this info has come up in other threads over the years then disappeared from view. It would be great to get it a more suitable title then pinned so we can always find it and add to it as required. Duncan B (really enjoying all the info and photos coming into view) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 46 minutes ago, RobertF said: You're absolutely right! And perhaps delete some "ïnterference" (i.e. non-contributing) posts (like my own) in the process? As far as I'm concerned all input is valued, as further answers come out of the simplest of questions! Absolutely agree, this thread should be made a sticky as the ultimate British (Spey engined) Phantom Phread! Some superb first hand resource material coming out here. One possibly for @Duncan B & @sloegin57, 111 officially disbanded at the end of Jan 1990, who took on charge of Black Mike after that? Given that it appeared into the late 1990 air show season and stopped flying in 1992. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 3 hours ago, canberra kid said: John Superb photos John, in this one you can easily see the difference between the FG.1 and the FGR.2 fins, the nearest being that of an FGR.2 with the HF aerial in the leading edge, and the furthest of the pair to the left in the background being an FG.1. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 38 minutes ago, 71chally said: Superb photos John, in this one you can easily see the difference between the FG.1 and the FGR.2 fins, the nearest being that of an FGR.2 with the HF aerial in the leading edge, and the furthest of the pair to the left in the background being an FG.1. Thanks James, I must confess, although I do like the RAF Phantom I'm not as clued up on the nuances as I am with the Canberra, so it's good to know when something useful turns up. Talking of which, would some more markings drawings be of use? Also I think I read that the pylons were not too good so would some drawings of them be helpful? John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertF Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Well, I received mine today And despite the few (minor) flaws already mentioned in this topic, I think it's a marvellous kit. And the decal sheet is just unbelievable. I'm going to build this one straight out of the box as the first option, XT864 of 892NAS. I have always loved that Omega scheme. In my humble opinion, this kit deserves to be 2018's best selling kit, at least in 1/72. I think Airfix deserves that, too. I do have a few questions, though: - how often did the Navy FG1's actually carry the AIM-7s? Or were their fuselage recesses usually covered? - the colour scheme says the grey is Extra Dark Sea Grey, but I remember having read somewhere that they were in DSG. EDSG seems it be too dark for this scale anyway. Any suggestions/advice? Robert 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailspin Turtle Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 16 hours ago, sloegin57 said: Not as I recall Dave. They were both a flattened 'V' shape when viewed from the rear whereas the US ones (at least USAF) were flat when viewed from the rear - I'll check on the USN and USMC ones in a bit Dennis EDIT :- I've just checked through my slides and RAF/RN fuel vents only protrude as far as the tail light on the brake para door and are flattened 'V' shaped as I said. USAF/USN and USMC fuel vents protrude about 6 inches aft of the tail light, are flat and are quite distinctive whereas British ones appear fairly low key. The fuel vent had to be changed on the Brit Phantoms so the FG.1 could be accommodated on the smallest elevator. See http://tailhooktopics.blogspot.com/2012/05/spey-powered-phantom-changes.html and scroll way down. For what it's worth, XT-595 and XT-596 had the original vent. For XT-595's unique markings, see http://tailhooktopics.blogspot.com/2016/11/f-4k-first-flight-markings.html 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloegin57 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, Tailspin Turtle said: The fuel vent had to be changed on the Brit Phantoms so the FG.1 could be accommodated on the smallest elevator. See http://tailhooktopics.blogspot.com/2012/05/spey-powered-phantom-changes.html and scroll way down. For what it's worth, XT-595 and XT-596 had the original vent. For XT-595's unique markings, see http://tailhooktopics.blogspot.com/2016/11/f-4k-first-flight-markings.html Thanks for that Tommy. Any further comments that you may like to make or references to your web site would be very much appreciated. And I think that I speak for more than just me this side of the pond Dennis 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 A sort of F.4 K/M family tree John 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troffa Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 22 hours ago, sloegin57 said: The kit bit looks OK to me, it was quite thin compared to the depth as it was only filled with electric string and stuff :- HTH Dennis What's that on the centre-line? Doesn't look like the 600 Gallon tank- could be a SUU Gun, but it looks like it's got a pointy aft end, and I only ever saw blunt/ flat ones. Edit: I've just had a look at some references, and I think it is a SUU Gun, pointy aft end and all. Nice pic, thanks to Dennis for the share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squezzer Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 (edited) May I missed it but how the Aifix kit compares itself to the Fujimi one in terms of accuracy and details. From the pictures of the Aifix rendition, it seems to me that the panel lines are a bit heavy. I also read that some details were missing. Thx Edited January 20, 2018 by squezzer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloegin57 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Troffa said: What's that on the centre-line? Doesn't look like the 600 Gallon tank- could be a SUU Gun, but it looks like it's got a pointy aft end, and I only ever saw blunt/ flat ones. Edit: I've just had a look at some references, and I think it is a SUU Gun, pointy aft end and all. Nice pic, thanks to Dennis for the share. Thats all I remember at Leuchars Troffa, the longer "pointy" rear end. I usually associate the blunter ones with the F-4D's of the 52ndTFW Spandhalem or the 48thTFW at Lakeneath. Ours were either painted Deep Bronze Green or, unusually, Light Aircraft Grey :- Note the EDSG (ex Navy) Stbd tank Photogs always get the best jobs !! :- Blast their hide !! Dennis Edited January 20, 2018 by sloegin57 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troffa Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Thanks Dennis, the SUU-23 pods in use by the time I got to 43 (87-89) were the blunt ended units- I can only find this pic at the moment of a 19 Sqn bird at Akrotiri. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a8/5f/51/a85f51e59a92a72e27db591c3e1b7a71.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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