1/35 M4A2 76mm "Wet" Sherman

[Bullbasket]

Nice going with the tracks skids. That's the problem with the earlier Revell/Italeri  Shermans, the two part suspension unit, making it a right royal PITA to clean up. I don't know how far you want to go with the detailing, but there are four holes on the front face of the unit, and four bolt heads on the rear where the return roller bracket is attached.

 

John.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Somehow I thought this kit was an HVSS.....I'm losing my marbles, I swear. 

 

I have been looking at an awful lot of Sherman build threads lately though.....

[AntPhillips]

On 30/12/2017 at 10:19 PM, Whofan said:

Aha, the shells were in water?

IIRC it was a Water/Glycerine mix

[PlaStix]

Excellent scratchbuilding! That will improve the appearance no end! 

Kind regards,

Stix

[Whofan]

5 hours ago, AntPhillips said:

IIRC it was a Water/Glycerine mix

Thanks for that. I wonder though if it actually worked? I suspect it must have done something useful.

[Ozzy]

Nice going Nigel, your brass bending is fantastic. Nice reference pictures too.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

3 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Nice reference pictures too.

Be careful with those, they're very probably M4A3s unless you know for sure that they're not (the engine deck and rear hull plate/exhaust system will let you know), the US Army didn't use the M4A2 (but the USMC did) and the subtle differences could come back to bite you.....A couple of the pictures that I posted earlier are the very same examples found on your decal sheet, make them your primary guide for sprocket, roadwheel, idler etc. then follow a known example of the specific type for the details. 

 

Here's a picture of the exhaust paired with the correct VVS suspension system:

 

 

I'm pretty sure I can provide significantly higher resolution copies of at least some of the contemporary images of Soviet M4A2(76)Ws, but it may take me a day or two to find & post them.

 

[Nigel Heath]

Thanks for the guidance Sarge, much appreciated.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

No worries fella, I know you like to get details right.....If you familiarise yourself with the main distinguishing characteristics of the M4A2, (the exhaust and rear hull plate pattern that you see above, and the engine deck that you'll see in the plans in the reference I sent you) and can see both of these characteristics on a reference subject then you are on the right track, if not be cautious. 

 

I don't have as many images of Soviet M4A2s as I'd like but I know I do have a few, just need to find them and see if they are worth posting.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

This profile matches what you've already built (but I can't find the photo it is presumably based on, so I'm a bit sceptical):

 

 

It seems the plain sprocket was much more common on Soviet tanks, so swapping it would give you more options (two of the versions in your kit actually had the plain type sprocket), Your T54E1 tracks appear to be correct for version B but I believe version A should have three bar cleat T49.

 

A:

 

B:

 

I believe version C to be incorrect, I think it's based on this Soviet M4A2 75mm (note the applique armour patch, not found on a 76(W) and rear turret shape):

 

 

No luck with version D yet.

 

Shame this one isn't an option, it's probably the clearest photo I've found:

 

[Nigel Heath]

Thanks Sarge, some good reference material there. I am pleased to report that the exhausts arrived from Steve (fatfingers) on Wednesday. Today I will be mainly continuing to clean up the running gear parts.

[Hewy]

Small changes in the same type,I've been round in circles,  some bits are most confusing, the experten out there,  it has become apparent recently,  really know their shermans,  i reckon for some differences   it was a blurred changeover ,(turret cupolas, for instance)  owing to war obviously, all the same nigel,  its a flippin minefield isn't it, I'm sure with the help of the sherman massive we'll get through this most enjoyable  gb all the same

Keep on keeping on

Glynn 

[Nigel Heath]

Having cleaned up pretty much all of the running gear parts I got to work on masking them ready for some primer. For these parts I punched out some 1.7mm discs of tape as well as filling the axle holes with tiny balls of Blu Tack:

 

 

For the corresponding mounting faces I masked using dabs of Gator Grip. I would have preferred to have used proper liquid masking media but this acrylic glue is the nearest thing I have at the moment, hopefully it should work OK:

 

 

Next, as a bit of a diversion but still needed as part of the running gear I cleaned up the back panel, at the same time spotting some sink marks and started to deal with them:

 

 

Here are all the cleaned up bogie bearers as well as the damper thingies added:

 

 

To find the diameter of the roller axles I used my micrometer, right then 1.9mm, I have a suitable 1.9mm punch:

 

 

Next I masked the mating faces of the bogie parts using a combination of tape, Blu Tack and Gator Grip:

 

 

You may be wondering why I am going to the trouble of painting all the bogie parts before assembly. There are two main reasons, first I think it would be difficult to get paint fully inside them once assembled and secondly I think its best if the rubber tyred wheels have their tyres painted before they are assembled. Those will have to be masked off while I sort out the seams on the bogie halves.

 

I now have quite a collection of parts ready for some paint:

 

 

I used superglue to mount some of them on cocktail sticks. In doing so I found one of my bottles of glue had turned into a viscous, stringy mass - I got a final bit of use out of it doing the mounting job before binning it. I should be in a position to get some paint on next weekend.

 

Bye for now,

 

Nigel

[Ozzy]

Nice job Nigel, I've been wondering where all my cocktail sticks had gone.

[Hewy]

micrometers

[fatfingers]

Aye up Nigel,

 

Nice gong with the runners

 

Regards,

 

Steve

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Just noticed another issue with the markings/parts combination you have.....Option A has dish type road wheels. 

 

It appears that you can only build Option B OOTB with the parts Italeri give you.....However I'd be really dubious about using those 1/35 bands, Italeri band tracks are notoriously hard to fix.

 

So now it's really just a matter of how much aftermarket you want to use, or spares you can scrounge.....I'm fairly confident that someone here might have a set of dish type roadwheels unused (if you were working in 1/72 I could offer you several sets) should you decide to do Option A.  As for the tracks, I think you will have to bite the bullet and earn yourself a case of 'Track-Pin Thumb' apparently it's a right of passage amongst BIG AFV modellers. 

 

PS - I'd seriously recommend rebuilding the sprockets with the plain faces, evidence for the fancy type in Soviet service is scant.....I wish I'd noticed those M4A3 pictures just a bit sooner.

[Nigel Heath]

I am quite happy to get some after market tracks. Any advice on exactly what make and how many I need to get would be appreciated. I like the look of the fancy sprockets and will be sticking with those for purely aesthetic reasons.

[Whofan]

On 08/01/2018 at 11:13 AM, AntPhillips said:

IIRC it was a Water/Glycerine mix

Thanks. The things you learn on Britmodeller .....

[Sgt.Squarehead]

5 hours ago, Nigel Heath said:

Any advice on exactly what make and how many I need to get would be appreciated.

Sorry Nige, I don't know much about BIG bits.....You need one of the regulars to that field like @AgentG, @JackG, @bull-nut, @TeeELL

[JackG]

Looking good there, Nigel.

 

About individual track links, these were mentioned in the dedicated chat thread.   Consensus was Panda Plastic is your best option for price, quality and ease of construction.  Once glued though, they are not fully articulated, but can be made partially so by gluing every second link - there is a better explanation on their site:

http://www.shermantracks.com/

 

regards,

Jack

Edited January 15, 2018 by JackG

[Bullbasket]

When you've decided upon a particular tank, and you know which tracks it used, my advice would be to go for the Panda tracks. They can be assembled without using glue as the pins on the ends of each track link are a snug fit into the end connectors so allowing them to be manipulated.

BTW. One thing that Revell left off of the bottom of each VVSS units, is the three prominent bolt heads.

 

John.

[bull-nut]

15 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Sorry Nige, I don't know much about BIG bits.....You need one of the regulars to that field like @AgentG, @JackG, @bull-nut, @TeeELL

Afraid I can't help with BIG tracks, I have heard good things about Panda Tracks, and Mr Steve Zaloga, IIRC, uses them in several of his Osprey published 1/35 Sherman builds. But since I restrict myself to 1/48 I tend to use LnL from the kit.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Sorry guys, I think I got you two confused. 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

And the confusion continues.....Having now looked in detail at your parts, after reading this thread a little more closely: 

 

 

I seems you currently have an M4A3 hull and will need to swap your engine deck out with the spare provided (not sure if your instructions mention this at all) to match your decals, the rear hull plate and your new exhaust . 

 

Bloody Italeri, talk about vague! 

 

PS - It does look like you could build this kit as an M4A3 if you were so inclined.....You would need to source decals and your new exhaust would be of no use if you were to take this route.  Personally I think the Soviet Emcha is a cooler subject, they were involved in some pretty major campaigns (Bagration, Vienna, Berlin to name but a few) and the markings are often very striking too.