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Alclad II - thinner required? How to preshade when using a black primer?


WildeSau75

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Hi guys,

 

I am rather new to using Alclad II and have read different - sometimes contrary - statements. Hope you can help me a bit.

 

I am working on my Special Hobby Vampire FB52 which I will build as a Swiss Mk.6 and want to use Alclad II for the High Speed Silver.

 

First, which Alclad II color would you use for achieving this color -  High Speed Silver?

 

Is thinner required for Alclad II or can I shot is straight? I heard that this should work.

 

I often hear that using a black primer is the thing to go for when using Alclad. How can preshading be done when using a black primer? Is a primer really required? Wouldn't Alclad II directly on the plastic work as well?

 

Questions over questions... sorry guys....

 

Cheers,

Michael

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I've not used Alclad but AK Xtreme which are very similar, that said many now prefer AK which is said to be easier to apply and more forgiving.  AK state you don't need primer but then sell a black base for chrome/polished finishes.  I've been hard pushed to tell the difference between with or without black base to be honest as have most online reviews it's the same for Alclad, what is important in to have a high surface finish on whatever you want to paint and how it's applied.

 

You don't need thinner with Ak and I believe it's the same with Alclad, of the 2 AK (according to the reviews) is a better finish and stands up to being handled/masked than Alclad,

 

As for preshading, you use different types of paint, aluminium, polished aluminum, chrome, steel etc.

 

Best I can come up with hope it helps.   

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I've used a few different Alclads and always found them to be very durable, even after a short drying time they can be handled and/or masked without risk. I have always applied them over a black base because that's what most people advise though I am not sure how necessary it actually is but it certainly doesn't do any harm. I've used them straight from the bottle without thinners.

 

As Kev says above, you can get some pre-shading/panel variation using different colours of Aluminium - for High Speed Silver maybe a base layer of Matt or Semi-matt Aluminium with a panel fill-in of White Aluminium for example but you might need to experiment on a sacrificial modell to see how you like the effect and what variations you can achieve.

 

Cheers,

 

Stew

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13 hours ago, Kev The Modeller said:

I've not used Alclad but AK Xtreme which are very similar, that said many now prefer AK which is said to be easier to apply and more forgiving.  AK state you don't need primer but then sell a black base for chrome/polished finishes.  I've been hard pushed to tell the difference between with or without black base to be honest as have most online reviews it's the same for Alclad, what is important in to have a high surface finish on whatever you want to paint and how it's applied.

 

You don't need thinner with Ak and I believe it's the same with Alclad, of the 2 AK (according to the reviews) is a better finish and stands up to being handled/masked than Alclad,

 

As for preshading, you use different types of paint, aluminium, polished aluminum, chrome, steel etc.

 

Best I can come up with hope it helps.   

Hi Kev,

 

Thanks a lot - this helps.

 

Did apply some jet exhaust directly on the plastic - looks not bad.

 

Good to know regarding the different shades - I get you right, you mean postshading rather than pre?

 

Cheers,

Michael

 

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3 hours ago, Steve Noble said:

On the really shiny finishes like chrome you need a gloss black enamel undercoat, then very light coats of the Alclad. No need to thin the Alclad, shoot it at low pressure maybe 15psi.

Thanks Steve - a first trying wasn't working that bad :-).

 

Cheers,

Michael

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11 hours ago, Stew Dapple said:

I've used a few different Alclads and always found them to be very durable, even after a short drying time they can be handled and/or masked without risk. I have always applied them over a black base because that's what most people advise though I am not sure how necessary it actually is but it certainly doesn't do any harm. I've used them straight from the bottle without thinners.

 

As Kev says above, you can get some pre-shading/panel variation using different colours of Aluminium - for High Speed Silver maybe a base layer of Matt or Semi-matt Aluminium with a panel fill-in of White Aluminium for example but you might need to experiment on a sacrificial modell to see how you like the effect and what variations you can achieve.

 

Cheers,

 

Stew

Hi Stew,

 

Thanks a lot for your reply.

 

Using it straight from the bottle worked good.

 

I am not too sure how preshading over a black primer should work. Guess you mean using different shades/colors on different panels but not preshading where the color applied first shines through the one applied second, right?

 

Cheers,

Michael

 

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To answer your original questions, Alclad does not need thinning and you only really need the black base coat for the chrome or really gloss coats, not for the HSS colour you are after for which I used Alclad's Airframe Aluminium in the past before I moved to AK Interactive's Xtreme Metals.

You should always prime your model for Alclad as it does not have the ability to cover differences in surface texture that you might get with filler etc and any defects in the plastic will really show up once the Alclad has been applied. AK Interactive's Xtreme Metal has a distinct advantage over Alclad as it has a far better coverage but will still show up surface defects, therefore I would still advise a primer as I would for any paint finish in actual fact.

AK Interactive is without a doubt easier to use that Alclads, it has far better coverage, as I already stated, and is more forgiving in my opinion.

With regards to varying tones you can go for various shades of metallic paints on various panels (pick whichever Brand you want here) but you can also get variation in panels etc by using varying amounts of clear coats on top of the metallics too, more matt on one panel will look difffernt from gloss on another or just vary the coverage of matt coat between panels. Also worth trying is going over various panels with a very thin coat of grey, white or even black paint in a random mottle to take the shine off the metallics and to add a variety to the finish that gives it a more interesting appearance. 

Experimentation is the key to achieving an interesting NMF or painted metallic finish.

Here's an example where I have used several different colours of Metallic paint on the tail planes (AK Interactive in this case) and have also gone over some of the the panels with a very thin dark paint to give the mottled effect.

 

F5D922E7-834C-4407-A248-BD7DE0DD0B8F_zps

 

And here is an example of a single colour of Metallic ( Alclad's Airframe Aluminium for the HSS you are after) toned down with a quite flat coat of clear varnish to give a slightly dull finish.

 

T709_zpsb4a3ff3b-M.jpg

 

I hope that helps.

 

Duncan B

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1 hour ago, Duncan B said:

To answer your original questions, Alclad does not need thinning and you only really need the black base coat for the chrome or really gloss coats, not for the HSS colour you are after for which I used Alclad's Airframe Aluminium in the past before I moved to AK Interactive's Xtreme Metals.

You should always prime your model for Alclad as it does not have the ability to cover differences in surface texture that you might get with filler etc and any defects in the plastic will really show up once the Alclad has been applied. AK Interactive's Xtreme Metal has a distinct advantage over Alclad as it has a far better coverage but will still show up surface defects, therefore I would still advise a primer as I would for any paint finish in actual fact.

AK Interactive is without a doubt easier to use that Alclads, it has far better coverage, as I already stated, and is more forgiving in my opinion.

With regards to varying tones you can go for various shades of metallic paints on various panels (pick whichever Brand you want here) but you can also get variation in panels etc by using varying amounts of clear coats on top of the metallics too, more matt on one panel will look difffernt from gloss on another or just vary the coverage of matt coat between panels. Also worth trying is going over various panels with a very thin coat of grey, white or even black paint in a random mottle to take the shine off the metallics and to add a variety to the finish that gives it a more interesting appearance. 

Experimentation is the key to achieving an interesting NMF or painted metallic finish.

Here's an example where I have used several different colours of Metallic paint on the tail planes (AK Interactive in this case) and have also gone over some of the the panels with a very thin dark paint to give the mottled effect.

 

F5D922E7-834C-4407-A248-BD7DE0DD0B8F_zps

 

And here is an example of a single colour of Metallic ( Alclad's Airframe Aluminium for the HSS you are after) toned down with a quite flat coat of clear varnish to give a slightly dull finish.

 

T709_zpsb4a3ff3b-M.jpg

 

I hope that helps.

 

Duncan B

Thanks Duncan - that helps indeed. Your Hunter looks really great - very convincing. Good to know regarding the primer - will use a white one and then can still try some pre-shading. Regarding the AK Interactive Xtreme Metal colors - which would be the closest to get HSS?

 

If I one day will just get close to what you achieve, I will be happy.

 

Cheers,

Michael

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Michael, I would use the Xtreme Metal Dull Aluminium if you are going for the look of an in service aircraft, HSS dulled very quickly to an almost grey finish so you don't want to go for anything too shiny.

 

Duncan B

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5 hours ago, Duncan B said:

Michael, I would use the Xtreme Metal Dull Aluminium if you are going for the look of an in service aircraft, HSS dulled very quickly to an almost grey finish so you don't want to go for anything too shiny.

 

Duncan B

Thanks Duncan - appreciate it a lot.

 

Do you have any experience with Vallejo Metal colors? If, how would you rate them vs the AK Interactive ones?

 

Looking again at your Hunter I must say I am impressed. Looks top notch. May I ask which kit it is?

 

I wish you a Happy New Year and thank you for helping a NMF newbie.

 

Cheers,

Michael

 

 

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2 hours ago, WildeSau75 said:

Thanks Duncan - appreciate it a lot.

 

Do you have any experience with Vallejo Metal colors? If, how would you rate them vs the AK Interactive ones?

 

Looking again at your Hunter I must say I am impressed. Looks top notch. May I ask which kit it is?

 

I wish you a Happy New Year and thank you for helping a NMF newbie.

 

Cheers,

Michael

 

 

I've never used the Vallejo Metal Colours (because I found that the AK Xtreme metals worked so well for me that I didn't need to look anywhere else) so I couldn't comment on how the Vallejo ones work.

I'm glad you like my Hunter, it was built a few years ago now and is the Revell 1/72 single seater converted using a PJ Productions two seat resin conversion set painted with Alclad (it was before Xtreme Metals came out).

All the best for 2018 and happy modelling

 

Duncan B

 

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14 minutes ago, Duncan B said:

I've never used the Vallejo Metal Colours (because I found that the AK Xtreme metals worked so well for me that I didn't need to look anywhere else) so I couldn't comment on how the Vallejo ones work.

I'm glad you like my Hunter, it was built a few years ago now and is the Revell 1/72 single seater converted using a PJ Productions two seat resin conversion set painted with Alclad (it was before Xtreme Metals came out).

All the best for 2018 and happy modelling

 

Duncan B

 

Thanks Duncan - just saw that the Swiss model online shop I normally order stuff from my LHS cannot provide, does have the AK colors. Will give it a go!

 

I thought your Hunter must haven a conversion - wouldn't it be nice if Revel would make a T version of their great single seat Hunter?

 

Have a nice evening.

 

Cheers,

Michael

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