830 Sqd. Swordfish, Malta campaign.

[Artie]

Hi all again....My brother wants to build a Sworfish from the malta campaign, 830 Sqd, after reading the excellent Kenneth Poolman's book "Night strike from Malta".

The thing is that he's not been able to find any good pic or colour profile of the above mentioned  plane....Could you please help me with that...????

 

TIA and best regards

 

 

[Seahawk]

Photo on page 167 of Swordfish From The Cockpit: Swordfish I in overall black (so the caption says, wouldn't swear to any more than black undersides myself).  A Type fuselage roundel, 27" A Type fin flash aligned with rudder post with code "M" (12-15" high?) on fin forward and slightly above it.  No serial quoted: photo quality too poor to see whether it is present or not.  Armed with torpedo and fitted with fuel tank on Observer's position.

 

Another photo of a burned out wreck on p.166 is described as an 830 Sq Swordfish I with serial L2833 and code N.  All fabric burned off so limited scope to identify markings.  Fuselage fuel tank present.  Sturtivant says L2833 went to 830 Sq on 1/7/40, serving as "L" and "N" before being declared a total loss on 28/8/41.

[tonyot]

Here is a side view from a book that I wrote about Malta,... which was based on a photo of the real thing;

 

Cheers

        Tony

[AntPhillips]

26 minutes ago, tonyot said:

Here is a side view from a book that I wrote about Malta,... which was based on a photo of the real thing;

 

Cheers

        Tony

Just getting the dreaded photobucket 3rd party hosting logo.

[tonyot]

Is this any better;

 

If you cannot,....do a Google Images search `Malta Swordfish' and it will show up!

 

Here is a photo of another 830 NAS Swordfish which is also coded M,.....note the black undersides but sides and top still in TSS.;

Here is another 830 NAS Swordfish;

Cheers

        Tony

Edited December 10, 2017 by tonyot

[GrahamB]

Hi Tony,

 

I wonder if this last one is really black? Perhaps Dark Mediterranean Blue (as per Ian Huntley articles in the past)? U/C leg is a clue.

Cheers

GrahamB

Edited December 12, 2017 by GrahamB
punctuation

[tonyot]

1 hour ago, GrahamB said:

Hi Tony,

 

I wonder if this last one is really black? Perhaps Dark Mediterranean Blue (as per Ian Huntley articles in the past)? U/C leg is a clue.

Cheers

GrahamB

Hiya Graham,

                 To my eye it looks like Night, under a hot Med sun, but considering that the film is ortho or something similar, judging by the outer yellow ring of the roundel,....it coud be anything!

Cheers

          Tony 

[iang]

I suspect it is a black (washable) distemper. This is what Admiralty documents describe for night attack Swordfish and what was used on Illustrious' 815 Squadron Swordfish for Taranto. When first applied it seems 'black', but fades to  what looks like a dirty dark grey to my eye. This photo and photos of some Taranto Swordfish look very similar (indeed some 830 squadron Swordfish were ex-Illustrious). 

[ClaudioN]

Very nice shot, showing that not all beaches are sandy... Somewhere in Sicily, I'd guess?

Colour aside, details I find interesting are the long-range tank within the fuselage and, if I'm not mistaken, the compass still fitted to the starboard-side support in the TAG position.

 

The picture shows a typical mix of military personnel, with Army soldiers in service caps around the aircraft and keeping curious lookers off, one of the ubiquitous Carabinieri military police (white shoulder belt) and what seems to me a Police officer or NCO. The black shirt worn by the man besides him suggest a Fascist local representative, who during the war would probably have worn his uniform as a rule.

 

Claudio

 

[Luke82]

Yes Claudio, that was in Sicily. Cefalù, my birthtown to be more precised. I work as an airline pilot in the UK and after some researches I managed to find out that the Swordfish capsized on the beach was piloted by Lt. Raymond Warren Taylor. I would like to share with you this beautiful story which I am sure you will all enjoy reading.

 

https://www.facebook.com/notes/foto-storiche-cefalù/the-centennial-pilot-from-newport/2327262987345920/

 

 

Edited April 4, 2019 by Luca Lazzara

[uncletommy]

40 minutes ago, Luca Lazzara said:

Yes Claudio, that was in Sicily. Cefalù, my birthtown to be more precised. I work as an airline pilot in the UK and after some researches I managed to find out that the Swordfish capsized on the beach was piloted by Lt. Raymond Warren Taylor. I would like to share with you this beautiful story which I am sure you will all enjoy reading.

 

https://www.facebook.com/notes/foto-storiche-cefalù/the-centennial-pilot-from-newport/2327262987345920/

 

 

Phenomenal!  What a find!  Well done.  

[tonyot]

2 hours ago, Luca Lazzara said:

Yes Claudio, that was in Sicily. Cefalù, my birthtown to be more precised. I work as an airline pilot in the UK and after some researches I managed to find out that the Swordfish capsized on the beach was piloted by Lt. Raymond Warren Taylor. I would like to share with you this beautiful story which I am sure you will all enjoy reading.

 

https://www.facebook.com/notes/foto-storiche-cefalù/the-centennial-pilot-from-newport/2327262987345920/

 

 

Cefalu looks like a lovely place and thank you for sharing your research. The training photos including the Hawker Hart Trainer look like they were taken at RAF Netheravon on Salisbury Plain, which was an RAF establishment used to train naval aircrew into the mid war period. 

 

If it is of interest,...... I researched the 830 NAS op from this night and wrote about it for my book about Malta`s War called `No Place For Beginners',..... however the final chapter that it was part of was cut from the book by the editor at the last minute for cost cutting purposes and so it never actually made it into print! Here it is;

 

"A tragic event occurred on the night of the 11th November however when 830 NAS suffered a grievous loss without a single shot being fired. Seven Swordfish had taken off in search of an Axis convoy off Lampedusa Island but four had turned back early due to engine problems, leaving the remaining four to continue. Unfortunately these four Swordfish and their crews who were led by the CO Lieutenant Commander J.G Hunt were caught out by one of the powerful Scirrocco winds which can suddenly spring up in the Mediterranean during the winter months and this left the Swordfish with a powerful headwind to contend with for their return journey to Malta. The extra power setting and flying time that this would entail meant that they had insufficient fuel to get home so the CO decided to head for Sicily instead and all four aircraft ditched off the coast when their tanks ran dry but one of them crashed killing both its crew. All seven of the remaining aircrew safely paddled ashore and become PoW`s and the CO was amongst those who were captured. This left 830 NAS with only five Swordfish but on a brighter note the unit had claimed 110,000tons of shipping since May 1941" 

 

I do hope that this helps,

Cheers

          Tony O`Toole

 

[ClaudioN]

3 hours ago, Luca Lazzara said:

Yes Claudio, that was in Sicily. Cefalù, my birthtown to be more precised. I work as an airline pilot in the UK and after some researches I managed to find out that the Swordfish capsized on the beach was piloted by Lt. Raymond Warren Taylor. I would like to share with you this beautiful story which I am sure you will all enjoy reading.

 

https://www.facebook.com/notes/foto-storiche-cefalù/the-centennial-pilot-from-newport/2327262987345920/

 

 

Grazie Luca!

 

Very nice and interesting story and yes, lovely place, of course...!

The line-up of significant dates that you managed to assemble is also quite something. Great.

 

Claudio

 

[ClaudioN]

If anybody is interested in the caption to the magazine painting that can be seen in the page linked to by Luca...

I think it is an outstanding example of wartime propaganda. Here's the translation:

 

ENEMY AIR FORCE IS HARD HIT - our air force intercepted and shot down four British heavy fighters in the vicinity of Cefalù. Three disappeared into the sea, while the fourth crash-landed, its pilot being taken prisoner.

 

So much for the headwind...

 

Claudio

 

[Seahawk]

And with those crew details we can identify the airframe as K8405, not that I can see that, or ROYAL NAVY titles, marked on the airframe.  I can't even see a yellow surround to the fuselage roundel but am assuming it's disappeared owing to use of ortho film.

 

Swordfish as a "heavy fighter"?  Hah!

[Luke82]

Thank you all for your comments.

 

@tonyot I am going to share what you wrote with the families of the airmen involved. Even though they now know all the details of that mission I am sure they will be happy to read it! Thanks!

 

@ClaudioN You’re correct Claudio, that was an example of propaganda!

 

@Seahawk That’s right, it was indeed the K8405

Edited April 12, 2019 by Luke82