Harrier T4 - did it ever use the REALLY tall T2 fin?

[David Womby]

I am toying with building a Harrier trainer.    I know there's better out there but I'll probably use the Heller T4 I have in the stash.   It depicts the T4 with the LRMTS nose but also with the REALLY tall fin like this pic of G-VTOL.

 

 

Now I know that RAF Harrier T2s did fly with this huge fin but I cannot find any pics of an RAF T4 with this fin.   They all seem to have had the shorter fin (taller than the GR1/GR3 fin but nothing like this high).

 

Can anybody point me to a pic of an RAF T4 with the LRMTS and this fin, please?  If not, I'll re-profile the kit fin to the smaller size.

 

Thanks

 

David

[sloegin57]

2 hours ago, David Womby said:

I am toying with building a Harrier trainer.    I know there's better out there but I'll probably use the Heller T4 I have in the stash.   It depicts the T4 with the LRMTS nose but also with the REALLY tall fin like this pic of G-VTOL.

Now I know that RAF Harrier T2s did fly with this huge fin but I cannot find any pics of an RAF T4 with this fin.   They all seem to have had the shorter fin (taller than the GR1/GR3 fin but nothing like this high).

Can anybody point me to a pic of an RAF T4 with the LRMTS and this fin, please?  If not, I'll re-profile the kit fin to the smaller size.

Thanks

 

David

David,

 

the RAF T.Mk.2a/4's that were built with the tall fin never had the LRMTS fitted to that fin.  When it came time to upgrade them with LRMTS on the nose and the PWR on the fin, a standard GR.3 (post upgrade) fin was fitted.

 

The reason that the fins appear taller is a) that the trainer fins, from build, were placed on top of a plinth (11 inches in height springs to mind).  The fins with the PWR had, as the GR.Mk.3's (post upgrade) had, the fin cap covering the aerial increased in height by 6 inches (I think). 

 

With respect David, and I mean no offence, but from your question and statements there appears to be an (understandable) misunderstanding of Harrier Mark numbers.  Irrespective of the configuration of the aircraft, both single seat and trainers, the Mark of the aircraft was determined by the mark of Pegasus engine fitted.  Harrier trainers were initially built as T.Mk.2 with the Pegasus Mark 101 engine fitted.  These were then progressively upgraded to T.Mk.2A, with the Pegasus Mark 102 engine fitted and finally to T.Mk.4 with the Pegasus Mark 103 engine.  Later Harrier trainers were either built as T.Mk.2a's and later production aircraft as T.Mk.4's.

 

As you are in the USA, it may be worth mentioning that all the USMC TAV-8A's had the tall fin fitted and had the Pegasus Mark 103 fitted.  The first batch of twelve AV-8A's, 158384 to 158395 had the Pegasus Mark 101 fitted.  Subsequent production missed out the Pegasus Mark 102 and were built with the Mark 103.

 

Bit long winded I am afraid but HTH

 

Dennis

 

 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2017 by sloegin57

[David Womby]

Dennis

 

Firstly, thank you for putting me right on the meaning of the T2 v T4 designations.  I wrongly assumed it was the addition of the LRMTS nose that differentiated the two marks.

 

Secondly, I never knew the fins with the PWR had a taller tip on both the GR or T marks. Thanks for that too.

 

Looks like I will have to be careful how I reshape the fin when I build the old Heller kit as an RAF trainer.   ( I know I also need to trim off the erroneous ferry wingtips.)

 

Thanks again

 

David

[sloegin57]

1 hour ago, David Womby said:

Dennis

 ( I know I also need to trim off the erroneous ferry wingtips.)

Thanks again

David

David

 

No you don't have to trim of the Ferry tips.  At least two trainers from RAF Germany,  one tall fin one included,  used the Ferry tips, together with the 300gal large underwing tanks, whilst being deployed to Cyprus back in the 70's. As far I know, these were the only two to use them, excluding the Air Race GR.1's.  

 

That little snippet I have only discovered in the past twelve months - and I was on Harriers for many, many a happy year and never knew.

 

HTH again

 

Dennis

 

Have fun :-

 

Edited December 10, 2017 by sloegin57
photo added

[canberra kid]

@David Womby a bit more info if it helps at all?

John

[David Womby]

Thanks, Dennis and John.  Both very helpful.  Don't suppose anybody knows the serial of that Harrier trainer with ferry tips on it?

 

David

[sloegin57]

24 minutes ago, David Womby said:

Thanks, Dennis and John.  Both very helpful.  Don't suppose anybody knows the serial of that Harrier trainer with ferry tips on it?

 

David

It was XW272 in 20Sqdn markings coded 'P' but in use by 3Sqdn.

 

Dennis

[David Womby]

On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 4:05 PM, sloegin57 said:

It was XW272 in 20Sqdn markings coded 'P' but in use by 3Sqdn.

 

Dennis

Thanks, Dennis, but are you sure it was coded P.  I have other pics of her coded Z but can't make out a letter on the fin in this pic but that could just be my colourblindness.

David

[sloegin57]

4 hours ago, David Womby said:

Thanks, Dennis, but are you sure it was coded P.  I have other pics of her coded Z but can't make out a letter on the fin in this pic but that could just be my colourblindness.

David

Yep !  

 

HTH

Dennis