M4A4 Sherman in Europe?

[Kayjay]

Hey Guys,

 

Anyone know of M4A4's being used in Europe by the USA?  I know they were used as Fireflys by the Brits and the Chinese used them late in the war and I believe we used them in SE Asia.  I am finalizing a CyberHobby (Dragon) M4A4 Sherman Orange box.  They included a late European Theater American tank crew, but I don't think this fits.  For those of you familiar with the Orange box series, they are mixed and matched Dragon kits.  The instructions are challenging (just pay attention to reference photos and look ahead through the instructions to see if something needs to be placed that is not mentioned in a step).  There are as many extra pieces from this kit for a Firefly as there are for the kit itself (almost).  As for the figures, I will most likely just keep them for future builds, but was wondering if anyone knew of American M4A4's in Europe.  Cheers (for the Brits Mates)!!

[Army_Air_Force]

A friend owns this M4A4. From his restoration thread ( http://hmvf.co.uk/topic/7836-m4a4-restoration/ ), he gives the following brief history.....

 

"My Sherman, M4A4 serial number 5271, was built in September 1942 by Chrysler at the Detroit Tank Arsenal. It was the 467th built out of a total production run of 7499 M4A4s. Issued to the US Army with Reg. No. USA W-3057081, it was transfered to the British Army and given a census number of T-146309. In British use, it was known as a Sherman V. I will tell more of its history later, not that I know much, but eventually it ended up on Salisbury Plain, along with about 25 other M4A4s and other assorted vehicles to be used as survey targets for the Royal Artillery."

 

I don't know whether all M4A4's were transferred to other Allies.

 

Edited December 9, 2017 by Army_Air_Force

[Plasto]

Hi,

 

The M4A4 wasn't used overseas by the US Army. Almost all of the production went to the British who designated it Sherman V.

 

Hunnicutt says the following:

 

Page 166

 

"Rejected by the US Army for overseas service, the M4A4 was used by units training in the US  However the great majority of the multibank powered tanks were allocated to the British under lend lease agreements"

 

Sounds like the kit would make a good Sherman V. i think the original boxing came with the Chinese markings as an option. 

 

 

Which  were a bit different.  I think the US took the Tanks from British stocks in Burma and issued them to the Chinese who operated under US control.

 

HTH

 

Plasto

[Kayjay]

About what I figured...thanks for the information guys!  Like I stated, Dragon basically kit bashed their own kits and threw in a European Theater crew.  Great pics and info!!!  Arm Air Force, pretty cool your friend actually owns one.  The thing I learned most from you is that there is a Washington in the UK.  Was not aware of that due to the history and all.  Now I have to go look that up.

 

Cheers guys!  I'll try to get some pics up of the build

 

[Kingsman]

The US Army had the surprisingly large number of 1,160 M4A4, mixed DV and non DV.  However, they were used exclusively for training in the continental USA - particularly at the Desert Training Centre in California - because of shortages of the operational types.  Following replacement with variants more representative of fielded US Army stock (M4, A1, A3) they were all rebuilt by Chrysler at the Detroit Arsenal in late 43/early 44 and put into Lend-Lease stock.  During that rebuild it is very likely that all available late modifications would have been incorporated, creating vehicles with mixed early/late features.  They were very well-used by the time they returned to their birthplace at Chrysler.

 

The only known combat use of the A4 by US troops was, as noted above, by personnel attached to the 1st Provisional Tank Group in Burma.  They were borrowed from the British to replace M3A3s (note the T serial above).  The US personnel were originally mostly drawn from 527th Ordnance Maintenance Company (Heavy Maintenance)(Tank) and were primarily assigned as instructors, but morphed into operational mentors.  However, 1st and 2nd Battalions of PTG each ended up with an attached US tank company whereas 3rd-6th Battalions just had US advisors.

 

The Cyber Hobby re-box of the M4A4 has US markings for 1st PTG.  In action some of the white stars and triangular logos seem to have been painted over.

[Army_Air_Force]

@Kayjay
I believe that Washington Old Hall, not far from my house, was the ancestral home of George Washington.

 

On a slightly amusing note, my next door neighbour lives in a house that is rendered in white. So technically, I live in Washington, next to the White House!! ;-)

Edited December 9, 2017 by Army_Air_Force

[Kayjay]

Abteilung...Thanks!  AAF...lol...that's funny.  Cheers!  

[Gary29]

On 09/12/2017 at 5:39 PM, Army_Air_Force said:

A friend owns this M4A4. From his restoration thread ( http://hmvf.co.uk/topic/7836-m4a4-restoration/ ), he gives the following brief history.....

 

"My Sherman, M4A4 serial number 5271, was built in September 1942 by Chrysler at the Detroit Tank Arsenal. It was the 467th built out of a total production run of 7499 M4A4s. Issued to the US Army with Reg. No. USA W-3057081, it was transfered to the British Army and given a census number of T-146309. In British use, it was known as a Sherman V. I will tell more of its history later, not that I know much, but eventually it ended up on Salisbury Plain, along with about 25 other M4A4s and other assorted vehicles to be used as survey targets for the Royal Artillery."

 

I don't know whether all M4A4's were transferred to other Allies.

 

What an awesome restoration!! Would love to have the time and resource to take on something like that! Have you been out on it? Very envious!

[Army_Air_Force]

14 minutes ago, Gary29 said:

.........Have you been out on it?....

Yes......

 

[Kayjay]

So love the convo and the pics of the real Sherman!  That is awesome.  I have not shown you the model though so here are a few pics.  I am still weathering.  The shine is due to I am teying Alclad II gloss varnish.  Smoother than Pledge Floor Care, but is difficult to get dry.  I have already done a dot filter and a bit of shadowing with burnt umber and very very thinned black oil color.  Needs some dirt and Burmese mud and a bit more care with a matte finish and we'll call her done.  Insight and criticism welcome.