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Italeri Short Sunderland Mk. III advices


ModellerCH
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Hi all,

 

i just bought an Italeri Sunderland Mk. III. Anyone did one already? I'm looking for some advices on how to build it or if there are some tips an tricks. For example what to use for the cables, or if there are photo ench parts, beside the ones that come with the kit, or resin parts, what are the most weathered parts of the planes and so on. Well all advices are welcome!

 

Thank!

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Ive built it recently.  Not a bad kit.  As is often the case very little of the interior can be seen once assembled do how much effort you put in is up to you but I'd suggest that any aftermarket parts here are wasted.  Watch the instructions regarding which flashed over port holes need opening up for the machine you're building & leave of the ASV radar aerials until the last minute (after painting & recalling!).  Recommend a set of Eduard masks for all those transparencies & I think that's about it!  

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Thank you wery much for your help. I looked at some Eduard kit...thinking to get the cockpit one and some external stuff. But i got a question. I read that Sunderland had 16 .303 guns and i found those barrels from Ultracast : http://www.ultracast.ca/products/Master/48 Scale/MAM-48-026/default.htm   . Are these the right barrels? Do you think it worth to get them or look for some resin ones?

 

 

Thanks again

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Just a wee note on colour callouts. Italeri would have you paint the whole of the engines gunmetal. Only paint the cylinders gunmetal. Paint the central gear casings semi-gloss black. Or you could use flat black and when dry, give it a light rub with your finger.

 

 

Chris

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Just now, dogsbody said:

Just a wee note on colour callouts. Italeri would have you paint the whole of the engines gunmetal. Only paint the cylinders gunmetal. Paint the central gear casings semi-gloss black. Or you could use flat black and when dry, give it a light rub with your finger.

 

 

Chris

Thank for the help! Will pay attention to it!

 

 

Thanks

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Not all Sunderlands carried that many guns: some later Mk. IIIs, IIIAs and Vs had four .5 inch guns mounted in the nose but from the outside you'd only see the ends of the barrels (look at images of ML824 at Hendon for example.  Usual rule: check for images of your subject, likewise with the guns.  Flash eliminators might or might not be fitted.

 

Weathering tended to vary: many Sunderlands tended to look grubby along the waterline on hull and floats unless they were fresh from the factory or off overhaul.  Some aircraft that had been hastily camouflaged over aluminium dope or Sky Grey at the start of the war tended to shed quite large areas of paint in areas subject to heavy use or abrasion.

 

There are six rigging wires per float, one each side from adjacent to the end of the strut to the underside of the wing and two diagonal braces fore and aft between the struts: I don't think any after market etched brass sets cater for them.

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9 hours ago, ModellerCH said:

Hi all,

 

i just bought an Italeri Sunderland Mk. III. Anyone did one already? I'm looking for some advices on how to build it or if there are some tips an tricks. For example what to use for the cables, or if there are photo ench parts, beside the ones that come with the kit, or resin parts, what are the most weathered parts of the planes and so on. Well all advices are welcome!

 

Thank!

Depends on what  Mk III you want to build, and how accurate you want your Sunderland?

 

Bear in mind only later production Mk III's had the fixed forward bow guns mounted, and they were x4 .303 Brownings Mk2,

450 rounds/gun (circa early 1944)

 

Those Mk III's serving in places like West Africa didn't have the bow mounted guns or the upper Turret

 

The kit has a number of issues, but a few observations:

The Italeri Mk III Sunderland has the ASV Mk VI Centrimic pods for under the wings for a Mk IIIa, but not the FN 5B Mk3 Turret,

found on the Mk IIIa.

Italeri Sunderland's (both kits) suffer from rings around each porthole, obviously to simulate opening portholes.

But actual Sunderland's did not have this, only forward ports opened and not all of these.

You can fill in the outer rings of the non opening and leave the others as is - should look fine, in scale too

 

Italeri Kit portholes

a0a70307-5972-4879-a009-989d24d34c00.jpg

 

What it looks like on actual Sunderland - note opening ports have the rings - non don't

7c4c07c9-7901-471d-a381-b9ff387a4c2d.jpg

 

Both Italeri kits are missing the Tenth Porthole Starboard side, you will need to add (black O)

59deffad-de40-4518-94db-d154232f95c6.jpg

 

Mk III Kit instruction would have you paint the wing tip lenses Red/Blue, they were actually clear

2376ffec-6d08-42ce-bd55-a353292d3a86.jpg

 

Aftermarket - forget it to be honest, Eduard interior/exterior sets are fictitious and you'd be best spending your $ on other

other things of more import.^_^

Hope that helps?

Regards

 

Alan

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Thanks guys!

 

Well...i'would like to build a good model..i'm not really practical with drilling holes and so on...i need some experimentation...i found this kit really nice because not really a popular plane in modeller community, i did not saw many around. Actually i bought Eduard paint masks and, interiores [yeah i know money for nothing], and a wing surface kit. I'd love to build the external maintenance platforms but it's way to advances for me now. I like little details and that why I asked for barrels. Colors wise i think i'll try to paint the No. 10 Squadron of may 1941...hope the cammo  will looks good. Well, i think i'll post some pictures of the work in progress so you guys will be able to correct my mistakes.

 

 

Thanks again

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3 hours ago, ModellerCH said:

 Colors wise (I) think (I'll) try to paint the No. 10 Squadron of May 1941...

Note that it is a Mk II rather than III but this may help with a bit of 10 Sqn advice

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234930547-italeri-sunderland-mk-ii-raaf-10-squadron/

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234940047-italeri-sunderland-mk-ii-raaf-10-squadron/

Here's a reference to look at

http://www.adf-serials.com.au/sunderland.htm

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Ed Russell said:

Thanks a lot! Awesome pictures!

 

As said by Steve219 it looks like the weathering is concentrated on the water line of the aricraft, and especially on the front. And as I see most of the times it uses the whithe and grey color scheme which is very nice. I'm just wondering what to use for the cables...meaby electric copper one and then paint in black? The manual tell to use plastic ones, but i don't know ho to cut plastic that thin.

 

This picture it's quite interresting:

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=e5ziYzhY&id=8FDD296A4D43DE7D7F44E094435973082E174DFC&thid=OIP.e5ziYzhYW_IR_UPL_fdOdgEsDX&q=short+sunderland+mk+iii&simid=608002886710200666&selectedIndex=27&ajaxhist=0

Edited by ModellerCH
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2 hours ago, ModellerCH said:

 I'm just wondering what to use for the cables...meaby electric copper one and then paint in black? The manual tell to use plastic ones, but i don't know ho to cut plastic that thin.

The instructions say "Stirred Plastic" which I interpret as stretched plastic sprue

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw0fv6Ot7eQ

Copper wire stretched a little to straighten it should be fine.

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3 hours ago, ModellerCH said:

Thanks a lot! Awesome pictures!

 

As said by Steve219 it looks like the weathering is concentrated on the water line of the aricraft, and especially on the front. And as I see most of the times it uses the whithe and grey color scheme which is very nice. I'm just wondering what to use for the cables...meaby electric copper one and then paint in black? The manual tell to use plastic ones, but i don't know ho to cut plastic that thin.

 

This picture it's quite interresting:

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=e5ziYzhY&id=8FDD296A4D43DE7D7F44E094435973082E174DFC&thid=OIP.e5ziYzhYW_IR_UPL_fdOdgEsDX&q=short+sunderland+mk+iii&simid=608002886710200666&selectedIndex=27&ajaxhist=0

One thing you need to remember is that it depends on where your Sunderland served, and the conditions of the maritime area of

the home base. Also take this caution, that any photo is only a snapshot of a moment in time of the Sunderland during its operational

life.

All Sunderland's started out brand spanking new and shiny, gradually (again depending where) weathering would begin and go from there.

Sunderland's didn't stay "dirty" all their service life, I have photos of Mk I's at Shorts, painted in Grey/White, when they began their life probably

camouflaged. Sunderland's like all airframes have to undergo maintenance/ major overhaul, so any grime etc is cleaned off, probably a repaint,

or touch up at least.

 

Types of weathering/grime  - note this Sunderland photo annotated by me

 

6e9d7f13-873b-49ef-81ca-7765660724d4.jpg

(Photo used for illustration purposes only)

The waterline depending on home base conditions can be grimy to downright disgusting (remember toilet flushed Starboard side)

Tender strike above the water line mostly port side, but can find rear starboard side also

Peggie Mk XVIII's were notorious for throwing oil

Bird droppings, if the aircraft has been at its mooring even for a day, can have bird droppings - I recall when climbing out on the

upper surface of the an RNZAF Sunderland, having to tip toe around the Seagull droppings - one slip and your in for an

early bath in the sea below.

Also not noted on photo paint wear atop of aircraft by crew (refueling etc)

Note also that Mk III's had lanolin waterproofing paint (Clear/Grey) which can complicate grimy looking waterlines

 

Note this next photo shows the usual tender alongside, remember Standard Practice was for the tender to come in under the

wing alongside, so tender strike on the paint tended to stretch along the Port side where the crew entered, but not so much

Starboard side -note you can see the oil throw just under inner engine

157e9ac3-5fca-4272-a74d-ceb445145991.jpg

(Photo used for illustration purposes only)

 

Other types of weathering - note this Mk III being beached a number of things to note

 

81706e06-a66a-4d42-8f34-8092f1ab90e7.jpg

(Photo used for illustration purposes only)

 

Note the tail planes, difference in colouration, and wings exhaust stains etc

Note the waterline - a lot of modellers miss this -note how it appears two lines

on the waterline one for loaded Sunderland (higher one) one for unloaded (lower line)

 

Another thing I have never seen on a Sunderland especially by modellers depicting a just

landed aircraft is the brownish grime stretching from under the trailing edge along fuselage

to the rear hatch. When the flaps are lowered, water from the landing surge makes it way up

along the fuselage past the flap well taking with it oil throw etc which is taken by the airflow

and bingo you have that dirty mess.

 

As far as Bracing wires go, hopefully this photo will help

f361295e-110a-4ccd-9e03-c85199bc1748.jpg

 

Regards

 

Alan

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Just a quick question about washes: I use Flory Model washes which a great to use because water based and needs no enmael thinner or so on to remove excess liquid. I see that Tamiya, Ak and Vallejo also got tons of washes but i never tried them. Anyone got a advice on that? I'm a little bit scared about using thinner to remove washes form panels because meaby it could remove the main colors...but probably i'm wrong: if i correctly remember, you can use enamel thinner liquid on acrylic paint, or an acrylic thinner on enamel colors, right?

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  • 8 months later...

Hi all, fairly new to the site - watched from the sidelines for years but never posted. 

Does anyone know if the underwing radomes are the same as the Lancaster/Halifax HS.2 ones?

Currently building a conversion of another kit and wanted to fit a pair but only got the HS.2 ones. 

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Yeah, they should be about the right shape and size. Not sure about Halifax radomes but Lancaster domes will need to have the base/bottom sanded down to fit the flatter underwing, as these usually are made to fit the more round under fuselage of the Lanc. I have a couple of vac units that I bought from Canovac years ago.

 

43973623822_ec7328d2f7_b.jpg

 

43973623862_4a17eacaaa_b.jpg

 

 

 

Chris

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6 hours ago, ND417 said:

Hi all, fairly new to the site - watched from the sidelines for years but never posted. 

Does anyone know if the underwing radomes are the same as the Lancaster/Halifax HS.2 ones?

Currently building a conversion of another kit and wanted to fit a pair but only got the HS.2 ones. 

Side view from Wiki

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H2S_(radar)#/media/File:H2S_Radome_And_Scanner_On_Halifax.jpg

 

What they should look like on a Sunderland Mk V/MR5

6c3441f3-6257-4975-9bce-d717fa97fab0.jpg

 

 

These are off our Sunderland above (for refurbishing)

 

92d269a4-6c4a-40c3-9f11-e34d4005a5c0.jpg

e1cc793f-8cf9-4198-b239-f628776381d0.jpg

Unless you have  a H2S pod to compare up close hard to say, but in 1/72 the difference may be minimal :whistle:

 

Regards

 

Alan

 

Edited by LDSModeller
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Thanks for the replies Chris and Alan. Ive hunted for the Canovac versions to no avail. ☹️

The photos you’ve provided are great - thank you. It looks as though the H2S ones are longer - something I’ve found trying to fit my ones into position - they’re fouling on the ailerons. 

I’m gonna have to go back to the drawing board on this one. 

The Italeri Sunderland Mk.III comes with them doesn’t it?

I wonder if SWMBO will let me get away with a third Sunderland in the stash? 🤔 (Got two Airfix ones)

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6 hours ago, ND417 said:

Thanks for the replies Chris and Alan. Ive hunted for the Canovac versions to no avail. ☹️

The photos you’ve provided are great - thank you. It looks as though the H2S ones are longer - something I’ve found trying to fit my ones into position - they’re fouling on the ailerons. 

I’m gonna have to go back to the drawing board on this one. 

The Italeri Sunderland Mk.III comes with them doesn’t it?

I wonder if SWMBO will let me get away with a third Sunderland in the stash? 🤔 (Got two Airfix ones)

Hi,

 

Yes the Italeri Kit does have the Mk VI ASV pods, as in photo below

 

f26457eb-97cf-4868-9c0e-e5ebcc41c976.jpg

 

This is the kit part on an Airfix Sunderland wing

 

ae5a0cea-5c27-4abb-967b-88d4468e6963.jpg

2ce7a6ea-54ba-4548-a1fa-42142635fb5d.jpg

 

The Italeri part is rounded to the very edge, and does not have correct geometry of

the real thing as in my previous post, That said you can either live with that, or shape one

yourself? FYI the SH parts are the same as the Italeri.

 

The Italeri ones in my Mk III kit, I plan to use on an RNZAF Sunderland MR5. I have yet

to decide whether I will attempt any corrections - some times you have to pick your battles :bristow:

 

Regards

 

Alan

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This is the radome from a 1980's vintage Airfix Lancaster sitting on the Airfix Sunderland wing. It fits size-wise but would require sanding/filler to sit on the wing surface properly.

 

30187196378_43fb28d9f5_b.jpg

 

30187196458_28f38d2eb8_b.jpg

 

 

 

Chris

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