Magua87 Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 Hi, all. I'm working on a Tamiya Mustang in 1/72, another RNZAF/TAF example. On my last build of the Airfix kit I dropped the flaps, the landing gear doors, and the radiator flap. The Tamiya kit is moulded with the flaps up and they can't be dropped without surgery. I'm wondering what to do with the gear doors. Tamiya tell you to model the aircraft with the gear doors down and the radiator flap open. Most images of the P-51 online show the aircraft with the gear doors down, radiator flap open, and the flaps down. I've come across a few images of the Mustangs with the flaps up and the gear doors up. E.g.: There's a lot of variation out there and I was wondering if Britmodeller could be my source of truth. Is there a normal gear door arrangement for a Mustang with its flaps up? Does Tamiya have their instructions wrong by suggesting gear doors down, but flaps raised? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 The reason the wheel cover doors are down is due to Hydraulic pressure bleeding after shut down. They would close once started up. As you say one can't really do much without cutting on the Tamiya kit. You could represent the model as about to start with a pilot figure in cockpit and have the doors up and flaps up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnAndersen Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 Gear doors should be down as pressure bleeds off, however I believe that the flaps were deliberately lowered to prevent damage from people climbing that way up. That way I can argue that my Mustangs has the flap up, as that was what the pilot/crew selected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magua87 Posted November 22, 2017 Author Share Posted November 22, 2017 (edited) So we would assume that the photo I linked above is from an aircraft that shut down recently? And we'd expect the doors and radiator flap to fall down soon as pressure falls? But the flaps would stay up unless lowered by the pilot? Edited November 22, 2017 by Magua87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnAndersen Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 Going through a couple of Mustang books show a lot of different combinations of gear door droop, flaps up or mostly down. I can see no connection to the radiator position; mostly down but not always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noelh Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 That's was always my impression. The gear doors would gradually fall open as the hydraulic pressure dropped after shutdown. So you could see them partially open or fully open or closed. The flaps on the other hand are either up or fully down in any picture you look at. So I would have thought that flaps up or down was a pilot option. It does seem pretty much SOP to park with flaps down though, as Finn says, to prevent people climbing on the wing using the rather delicate flap. But there are photos of P51s with flaps up and the gear doors hanging down which implies the loss of pressure doesn't affect the flaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caution Wake Turbulence Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 Kermit Weeks has some insights here, via Kermie Cam: Andrew 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noelh Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 All three of those Kermit Weeks videos are worth watching. Not least for the close up and very detailed walkaround of the P51D. But also right at the end of video 3 after shutdown he lowers the flaps and makes a point of disconnecting the hydraulics which allows the gear doors to drop. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS_w Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 (edited) the pressure was maintained in the circuit by the accumulator after the driven pump was stopped. After shut down the engine, the pilot pull the emergency LDG handle. This action locks the LDG handle in "down" position and release the pressure in fairing doors circuit. EMM & Flying Operation instructions, D models Edited November 24, 2017 by BS_w 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magua87 Posted November 23, 2017 Author Share Posted November 23, 2017 Very interesting. Thanks to all for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfqweofekwpeweiop4 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 If you look through books on the P-51, you'll find the landing gear doors in various stages of being up or down. I've seen pics with one door closed and the other fully up, just have a look at a load of pics of examples in service and you'll see what I mean. thanks Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courageous Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 IIRC from earlier discussions, the landing gear doors on Allison Mustangs COULD NOT bleed down but on Merlin Mustangs did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS_w Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 on Allison mustang, the landing gear control diagram was different. It was not necessary to pull the emergency ldg handle (which open the fairing doors) to lock the landing gear handle. For this reason, the fairing doors on these Mustang were always closed and locked on the ground(except if someone opened them for maintenance) EMM P51A & EMM A36 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.E.SAUNDERS Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 hi ALL, A P-51's flaps always drop very soon after Shutdown and NOT to STOP Personnel walkin' on them of wot nobody should do anyway unless they want to end up sprawled on the Tarmac ! The Clam Shell inner Undercarriage Doors also drop very soon after Shutdown usually one after the other but close up very soon after Startup as this is their position when the Main Undercarriage is down until Gear Retraction is selected and completed in flight....all very neat eh ? The previous Mustang's to the P-51D's had a different Hydraulic System and none of all this applied. ......... can't remember why ! cheery " P-51 " mumbas ! Geoff F.T.G. 3156 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS_w Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 (e) & (f) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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