antonio argudo Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Thanks John for your explanations, I took these screenshots from the asembly plant video, so looks like some alclad sheets were YZC coated prior to the asembly, did they spary YZC again once the whole wing was in place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antonio argudo Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Hi Olivier, I remember we were looking for the inside color of the radiator, here we can see it had a YZC coat cheers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted March 8, 2018 Author Share Posted March 8, 2018 Hi Antonio, yes, this capture screen confirms the doc 86 I had brought in the post#266, p.11, that I reproduce here: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattlow Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 I wonder if the earlier D-5 Mustangs had this YZC inside? I was going with bare aluminium... I also wonder about that 'strengthening rod' not in Revell kit. I wonder if it is a field modification due to the sides of the flap bending inwards? Finally, and still on radiators, I read that both the radiator flaps are thermostatically controlled. I would assume that'd mean a machine that was 'cold' would see both flaps fully closed (in the image above if the activator strut was connected to the flap it would be closed up)? Nice to see your model again Olivier, easy to forget there's a model being built amongst all this reference material.. Matt 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharknose156 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Dear Olivier Congrats on this great build in progress project. Such a great passion inspiring airplane ! Am glad you are having a great fun time and with seemingly some strong supporting experts in the P51 ! You also seem to be on the way to break the record in the number of posts and pages in the Airplanes sections cheers and good luck Sam 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted March 8, 2018 Author Share Posted March 8, 2018 26 minutes ago, Mattlow said: Finally, and still on radiators, I read that both the radiator flaps are thermostatically controlled. I would assume that'd mean a machine that was 'cold' would see both flaps fully closed (in the image above if the activator strut was connected to the flap it would be closed up)? Nice to see your model again Olivier, easy to forget there's a model being built amongst all this reference material.. Very interesting info about the flaps, Matt, thanks. And thank you too for the kind comment. I admit that first because I was far from my workbench (for good reasons, holidays...) and then because of deep research to have the most probable wings surface, my build had been nearly stopped. I was a bit frustrated by that, but it is the price to pay as I try to build a convincing "Missouri Armada". I said above that my wings were ready, but in fact, looking again at the photo 123, my rivets (the ones remaining...), because of a lot of sanding, had nearly disappeared. I have begun to recreate them with a needle, one by one, getting in the same time, a more round shape, while the Riveter leaves a mark not really so. Another necessary patient work, but that will enhance the rivets on the surface where they were probably present... But like JMV, when I have such a "boring" job to do, I play my favorite music... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted March 8, 2018 Author Share Posted March 8, 2018 Thanks a lot, dear Sam, and welcome in the thread (Sam was a great contributor - in every sense of the word... - in the "Fiat 806 research and scratchbuild" thread, and I invite everyone to go and see his new amazing thread dedicated to the Fiat Mefisto, that could be my next build...), that he had to redo because of f... Photobucket... 1 hour ago, sharknose156 said: You also seem to be on the way to break the record in the number of posts and pages in the Airplanes sections Really? I had not noticed that at all. But, as you mentioned with right, I am far from being alone, with again a dream team around me... We are still very far however (for now...) from the 190 pages of the 806 "research and scratch" thread!! All the best Sam and good luck to you too! Olivier 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antonio argudo Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Mattlow said: I also wonder about that 'strengthening rod' not in Revell kit. I wonder if it is a field modification due to the sides of the flap bending inwards? I remember reading about it in the P51 SIG, it is a modification in modern warbirds, itsn't something genuine from the NAA production, so Revell got it right. cheers Edited March 8, 2018 by antonio argudo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted March 8, 2018 Author Share Posted March 8, 2018 39 minutes ago, antonio argudo said: itsn't something genuine from the NAA production, so Revell got it right. On the other hand, I suppose this vertical arm (missing in the Tamiya kit) must be represented, no? Is it in the 1/32 Revell kit? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antonio argudo Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Olivier de St Raph said: Is it in the 1/32 Revell kit? Hi Olivier, the vertical arm should be represented, I can't check on the revell kit now but I did on the 1/32 Tamiya and it is there as well as the rod, so the Tamiya guys were very accurate reproducing their Mustang "restored" reference Edited March 8, 2018 by antonio argudo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antonio argudo Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 (edited) no, my mistake, I was wrong, that was not the radiator shutter drawing , so Tamiya got it right! Edited March 8, 2018 by antonio argudo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted March 8, 2018 Author Share Posted March 8, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Terrell Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, Mattlow said: I wonder if the earlier D-5 Mustangs had this YZC inside? I was going with bare aluminium... I also wonder about that 'strengthening rod' not in Revell kit. I wonder if it is a field modification due to the sides of the flap bending inwards? Finally, and still on radiators, I read that both the radiator flaps are thermostatically controlled. I would assume that'd mean a machine that was 'cold' would see both flaps fully closed (in the image above if the activator strut was connected to the flap it would be closed up)? Nice to see your model again Olivier, easy to forget there's a model being built amongst all this reference material.. Matt Actually, Matt, you did exactly right with your depiction on the P-51D-5-NA. For the vast majority of Mustang production, including most all P-51D production, the aft interior fuselage, interior tail cone and radiator section were not primered on the interior. Only the longerons, some stringers and a few ribs tended to get the primer treatment, where as skins, bulkheads, ribs, etc. remained bare metal on the inside. During P-51D-30-NA production, they really seemed to use a lot more primer in areas. The colored film and screen captures are from P-51D-30-NA production, so can be quite different than earlier P-51D-5-NA, P-51D-10-NA, P-51D-15-NA era production, etc. - they started using zinc chromate primer so much during P-51D-30-NA production, that a number of P-51D-30-NA's actually had yellow zinc chromate covered landing gear doors and many had the cowl formers coated in zinc chromate as well during this time, where as most all other earlier production examples had these left bare metal. According to a North American Aviation summary of changes for the P-51D production blocks: "Because of corrosion difficulties, a minimum of one coat of zinc-chromate primer was applied to all interior metal surfaces of wings, fuselages and control surfaces. This change became effective in production on and after Airplane P-51D-20-NT AAF 44-12553 (P-51D-20-NA Airplanes not affected.)" As various well preserved P-51D-20-NA's and P-51D-25-NA's have shown, the interior surfaces in the tail cones and aft fuselages remained largely un-primered, and it would seem that at Inglewood, that change to priming all interior surfaces didn't go into effect until during P-51D-30-NA production. In depicting an early-to-mid production P-51D, especially a P-51D-5-NA or P-51D-10-NA, it would be accurate to depict the structure around the radiator and the inside of the radiator coolant door/flap as bare metal (with overspray from the field-applied RAF paint). The box-like outer structure of the radiator itself was always green zinc chromate. With regard to the coolant radiator door and the smaller oil radiator door, they each operated independently using a couple of different methods. When in the automatic selection, both doors were controlled by thermostats and would automatically open/close based on the coolant and the oil radiator temps, when the battery was on. They could also be controlled manually (when the battery was on), via the toggle switches, so the pilot could also open/close the doors himself from the cockpit. If you ever see any of those two doors fully opened when the aircraft is parked, it means that the pilot had manually opened them prior to engine shut-down - it is a common practice among some Mustang pilots to open the doors fully, after landing, and keeping them in that fully opened position until after takeoff on the next flight, that way you're getting maximum cooling on the ground. In the photo of "Missouri Armada", you're seeing that the pilot opened the radiator coolant door fully open, after the last flight it had made, so as to have likely had it open during the taxi back to the hardstand and left it in that position for the next engine start/taxi/takeoff. Edited March 9, 2018 by John Terrell 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted March 8, 2018 Author Share Posted March 8, 2018 Thank you again John for these great infos that will avoid us errors... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antonio argudo Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 (edited) Thank you John for such precise info, you are Mustang gold! Hi Olivier, looking at your wing picture, two of the wing fuel tank attachments are missing in the tamiya kit wing cheers Edited March 8, 2018 by antonio argudo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 Antonio has posted this color pic in the post#683: I have found virtually the same in the O'Leary book (p. 153) in BW, that I post below. At first glance, the 2 photos seem to have been taken at 2 seconds apart BUT the Acme Surfacer on the left wing root area is a bit different: the surfacer doesn't go up to the most internal part of the wing. In fact, you can see that the 2 guys in front of the cockpit floor on the color version are missing in the BW one. For me, no doubt, it is another wing, and this shows that there could be variations from a wing to another with the Acme coat, even on a same assembly line... On the other hand, on both pics, the Surfacer was not applied on the whole wing root right side. The J.T assumption about the side by which pilots reach the cockpit (left) is quite probable. On my build, however, I have followed the J.T diagram with Acme symmetrically applied. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antonio argudo Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 (edited) Hi Olivier, I think it could be the same wing but certanly they are in different position and angle and fool our eyes, giving less visivility to that yellow area near the wingroot, also if you zoom the color picture, there is a yellow haze in it very difusse, also the irregular patern of YZC matches along the wings, too bad that the color picture is low res to compare further cheers Edited March 9, 2018 by antonio argudo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Terrell Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Olivier de St Raph said: That area near the wing root not finished in surfacer is covered by the wing fairings/fillets anyway, when the aircraft is fully assembled, so does not matter. Edited March 9, 2018 by John Terrell 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 19 hours ago, antonio argudo said: Hi Olivier, looking at your wing picture, two of the wing fuel tank attachments are missing in the tamiya kit wing Thanks Antonio, fuel attachments added... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted March 11, 2018 Author Share Posted March 11, 2018 My up and bottom wings being ready, I am actually working on the B5 and B12 parts. We could see - thanks to Tornbjorn (post#539) and to John Terrell (post#540) that the elevators were fabric covered on a P-51D-10-NA like the Missouri, while Tamiya provides "metal" ones (without the rivets). . The creation of rivets on the horizontal stabilizers, and of ribs on the elevators is a painstaking process. It is also necessary to make disappear the many wrong hollowed lines on the Tamiya parts... J.T has explained above that we could have as well phenolic or metal trim tabs (only with the latter, rivets on them). I have chosen the phenolic option, and there won't be rivets on my trim tabs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted March 11, 2018 Author Share Posted March 11, 2018 Correction done, requiring a new coat of white alu and Dark Green. On the top view below, the horizontal rivets lines are not perfect but at 1/48 scale, the defect is nearly invisible, and I ever spent a lot of time on this part. The best being enemy of the good, I accept this result as a good compromise. My part B12 should be a little better, I paid here my inexperience in the rivets technique... Front view: notice the dark and light areas got by the polishing, and the satin finish, not far from the one I would like to get on my final model... P.S: Antonio, can you recall me the name of your thread - or the link -, please? P.S 2: this thread is again very quiet, I feel very alone. Houston?? happily for me, I always keep in touch with my friend and master Juan Manuel... P.S 3: before going on with this technique (alu base coat), and following JMV very good hint, I am doing trials with masking tape to check if removing the tape, the paint remains in place (this had been a real problem with the red on my Fiat - an enamel paint - over the same alu base coat). The first trials are very good, a new Tamiya masking tape (not low tack) doesn't remove the paint, no peeling at all, that so seems to be strong. I am gonna leave the mask a longer time (about 3 days) to confirm this first good feeling... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted March 15, 2018 Author Share Posted March 15, 2018 John has sent me (among others) by PM this photo showing the Alclad alu sheet. But this photo shows also that the rivets lines John posted above in his diagram are very right. A great reference! Notice that we have on this pic a metal stabilizer with rivets, for a later version than the Missouri... P.S: my stabilizers/ elevators over, I work now on the outside right half of the fuselage (decrease séparations between panels, rivets as I did on left side)... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles87 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 It has been quiet on here for a couple of days. I think we were all being polite and waiting for you to say something first. Good work on the tailplane, especially the elevator. Johm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted March 16, 2018 Author Share Posted March 16, 2018 Thanks John! As I said above, I have begun preparing the right half of the fuselage, first by decreasing the too thick and too hollowed separations between panels. I need our experts before going on to be sure all is right now. Thanks for your support... Olivier N.B: the 2 lumps on the instrument panels shrouds have been removed (see Antonio's posts 608 and 621 on p. 25) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galfa Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Hi, How did you decreased the separation between panels? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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