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1/48 Hasegawa Skyhawks - what parts are in what boxes?


RMP2

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Cheers, Unc.

The Mk17 - good point. You've reminded me that I read somewhere about the Royal Navy being relieved to find home built bombs unexploded as they knew how to defuse them. Not sure how true that bit is but it ties in somewhat.

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On ‎7‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 1:30 PM, RMP2 said:

Also - the 500lb bomb mentioned, would that be a Mk82 or a "metricalised" 250kg ExPal as well? 

Well, Robbie; I guess it all had to do with the "metricalised" aspect of the loadout; A 500-lb Snakeye only means 227 kg, while the Argie Scooters could haul up to 500 kg (1000-lb) of payload + the two mandatory Aero 1D tanks on the combat sorties over the islands. The ExPal bombs weighed 250 kg each, so the 4 Snakeyes hanging from a centreline TER mean 900+ kg.

Found this piccy here, but I don't know whether it's valid proof (check the "HMS Invincible" graffiti on one of the Snakeyes), 'cause the 25 de Mayo aircraft carrier on which that MER was photographed, actaully never participated in the war.

 

a4-q-ara-25de-mayo-guerra-de-malvinas-19

 

Then there's this nice illustration of the Navy Scooters while attacking the HMS Ardent, showing a two-Snakeye config. Check the centreline pod.

 

hmsardent-mk82.jpg?w=497&h=361

 

Uncle Marco still hasn't replied.

Cheers,

 

Unc2

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That is one of the photos I was thinking of, Unc.

 

I read the other day that on the day the Belgrano was sunk the Argentinians were planning a large strike on the taskforce, targetting the RN carriers from their own carrier which involved a lot of bombs on half a dozen or so Skyhawks and a further A-4 as air defence with a pair of Sidewinders on it. I think it was poor weather (or lack of wind perhaps) that delayed the strike going ahead, but once the Belgrano got torpedoed the plan was abandoned and the Navy went back to port. I suspect that photo may well relate to that planned large strike.
Not sure where I read that now, might actually have been on here somewhere now I think about it though...

 

But anyway! Im guessing a pair of 500lb Snakeyes mounted horizontally on the front of a MER would be a pretty safe bet?

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17 hours ago, RMP2 said:

That is one of the photos I was thinking of, Unc.

 

I read the other day that on the day the Belgrano was sunk the Argentinians were planning a large strike on the taskforce, targetting the RN carriers from their own carrier which involved a lot of bombs on half a dozen or so Skyhawks and a further A-4 as air defence with a pair of Sidewinders on it. I think it was poor weather (or lack of wind perhaps) that delayed the strike going ahead, but once the Belgrano got torpedoed the plan was abandoned and the Navy went back to port. I suspect that photo may well relate to that planned large strike.
Not sure where I read that now, might actually have been on here somewhere now I think about it though...

 

But anyway! Im guessing a pair of 500lb Snakeyes mounted horizontally on the front of a MER would be a pretty safe bet?

Hi there

 

Well actually both fleets became closer than 150 NM each other on April 30-May 1, 1982. The Argentinian Navy push for one all going mission but the lack of luck was that there was no wind that day, so they wait then from soft to none wind so then arrived the Gral Belgrano going down then 

 

My 0.02 cents

 

Cheers 

 

Armando

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17 hours ago, RMP2 said:

That is one of the photos I was thinking of, Unc.

 

I read the other day that on the day the Belgrano was sunk the Argentinians were planning a large strike on the taskforce, targetting the RN carriers from their own carrier which involved a lot of bombs on half a dozen or so Skyhawks and a further A-4 as air defence with a pair of Sidewinders on it. I think it was poor weather (or lack of wind perhaps) that delayed the strike going ahead, but once the Belgrano got torpedoed the plan was abandoned and the Navy went back to port. I suspect that photo may well relate to that planned large strike.
Not sure where I read that now, might actually have been on here somewhere now I think about it though...

 

But anyway! Im guessing a pair of 500lb Snakeyes mounted horizontally on the front of a MER would be a pretty safe bet?

The Royal Navy had a nuclear powered sub, HMS Splendid, which was assigned to hunt down and sink the 5th of May if she attempted to leave port. So I don’t think they would have been successful.

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19 hours ago, RMP2 said:

 a further A-4 as air defence with a pair of Sidewinders on it. 

Are the Argie birds wired for Sideies?

Even if they are they'd be limited to a single Charlie tank on the centreline, wouldnt get very far on that.

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9 hours ago, Scooby said:

The Royal Navy had a nuclear powered sub, HMS Splendid, which was assigned to hunt down and sink the 5th of May if she attempted to leave port. So I don’t think they would have been successful.

True, but were they aware of the subs presence before the Belgrano? If so - did they have any ASW capability?

Ive no idea, still reading up.

 

7 hours ago, NAVY870 said:

Are the Argie birds wired for Sideies?

Even if they are they'd be limited to a single Charlie tank on the centreline, wouldnt get very far on that.

 

Their A-4Cs had 5 pylons, so wing tanks could be carried too and I believe it was Shafrir missiles they sported now I think about it.

Re fuel - I seem to recall they had C-130s as tankers? Not 100% on that though.

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2 hours ago, RMP2 said:

True, but were they aware of the subs presence before the Belgrano? If so - did they have any ASW capability?

Ive no idea, still reading up.

 

 

Their A-4Cs had 5 pylons, so wing tanks could be carried too and I believe it was Shafrir missiles they sported now I think about it.

Re fuel - I seem to recall they had C-130s as tankers? Not 100% on that though.

Sorry but I can  promise to look for the quotes tomorrow I have that in the other laptop not at home

 

I been checking on the Falklands war as part of my contribution to my own IPMS El Salvador as we have that a contest theme for this year, So I been doing some research taking all the Argentine sources, At first was only for Air Actions but later included the Fleet and all the auxiliary right now its about little more than 200 pages but notice at first was only for the brief description of the actions now I have to add all the ground actions and  British sources. The secrecy act for British sources don't apply to Argentine sources so now there is a whole new bunch of information like all the B-707 fights of Argentine Airlines to buy arms in places like Lybia and Israel (now I have the dates, the crew names and even the list of the arms bought and bring it back to Argentine)

 

So let me say that there are all the data of the Tracker S-2E and Lockheed Electra tracking British subs

 

Argentine Navy and Argentine AF Skyhawks were different kind not only in equipment but in training, only the Navy was train in  naval attack not the AF, Navy Skyhawks were wired for AIM-9B and some AF A-4C for Shafirs and Matra Magics but only for trials

Also some AMD Mirage IIIEA were wired to fire Matra 530 but only those for second batch for Matra 550 Magic II and Shafirs II, also there was no Mirage 5 but iAi Daggers A also wired to shoot Shafir II

Tankers weer only 2 of the KC-130H serials (TC-69 and TC-70)

 

around the ARA 25 deMayo were 2 Type 42 destroyers with Westland Sea Lynx and also the carrier have Sea Kings and Tracker S-2E ASW platforms

 

My 0.02 cents

 

Armando

 

Edited by RAGATIGER
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Load after load of work is keeping me from posting some answers (top that off, uncle Marco is nowhere to be found!).

One thing that's certain is the fact that the Argie Navy was well aware of the presence of HMS Conqueror, hence, I highly doubt they would dare risk the 25 de Mayo out to sea, even before the ARA General Belgrano were sunk by her.

With regard to the Snakeye bomb load, I've just found a thread by @goon. Clickie there! Great as inspiration, Robbie!

Check the decals and how they suggest only two Snakeyes as the regular payload for the 1st bird in question. I don't think option #3 was ever possible, by the way. 

Gareth also arms his build with a four-Snakeye load in a MER, but I wonder where he got this info from, as the only real piccy you can see about it is of 3-A-305 while sitting on the catapult without any bomb load.  

Lemme just say that I concur with most of what Armando states on his replies, but I think that neither of those two Type 42 destroyers had ever ventured out to sea during the conflict. My other uncle in the Navy was in charge at the ARA Hércules, so that's a safe fact she never went out to sea other than to serve as target to help the SuE jocks calibrate - homologate the Agave radar with the seeker head of - the AM39 Exocet missiles after the French technicians abandoned the country.

There comes another load of work, so ta-ta...

Cheers,

 

Unc2 

Edited by Uncle Uncool
It's a MER, not a TER, you IDIOT!
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Ok mates be ready with your translator!!!

 

Beware to find out somethings you don't like!!! I'm only a simple plastic modeller/collector turn weekend/off and odd time historian, that when in my local club started to call for contest theme Malvinas/Falklands War was the winner, I was 14 at the time and started to read the newspapers since that

 

So all my investigation came from publish sources some of them of course from official web pages 

 

Here goes all the data for first days of war 

Note for May 1. 1982

El Tracker S-2E al mando del Capitán de Corbeta Dabini (2-AS-23), procedente del portaaviones ARA 25 de Mayo, obtuvo contacto con siete blancos estimados como la Fuerza de Tarea inglesa en latitud 49°34′ Sur y longitud 57°10′ Oeste. A 2300 hs. Mantiene el contacto en latitud 50°00′ Sur y longitud 56°25′ oeste localizando un blanco grande y tres medianos.

A 1530, ante contactos desconocidos en el radar aire, se lanzó la sección ILC de guardia Capitán de Corbeta Philippi y Teniente de Corbeta Medici F.) Interceptando aviones Canberra Mk.62 de la Fuerza Aérea que regresaban a la Base Aeronaval Almirante Zar en Trelew luego de operar en la zona de Malvinas. Uno de estos aviones había sido derribado al norte de las islas, destacándose el Aviso A.R.A. “Alférez Sobral” para el rescate de los dos tripulantes. El buque fue atacado con misiles lanzados por helicópteros falleciendo su comandante y siete hombres de la tripulación.

Por operar sin aeródromo de alternativa se mantuvo el avión tanquero en vuelo, listo a realizar reabastecimiento en el aire. Ante las localizaciones de los S-2E Tracker a 1513 y 2300 del 1° de mayo, el comandante de la Flota de Mar ordenó planificar un ataque en las primeras horas del 2 de mayo.

Se alistaron seis Douglas A-4Q Skyhawk configurados con 4 bombas Mk. 82 de 250 kg c/u: Capitán de Corbeta Castro Fox (3-A-301), Teniente de Fragata Márquez (3-A-314), Teniente de Navío Benítez (3-A-302), Teniente de Navío Oliveira (3-A-306), Teniente de Navío Lecour (3-A-312) y Teniente de Navío Sylvester (3-A-305). El plan era atacar con 6 aviones, manteniendo uno de reserva y el último como avión-tanquero, para reaprovisionar a los demás. Con 12 pilotos, la Escuadrilla organizó dos grupos de 6 para cubrir la guardia en caso de ordenarse un ataque; estos eran los pilotos de guardia.

Durante la noche comenzó a calmar el viento, caso poco usual en el Atlántico Sur. Este hecho, sumado a la distancia a la cual se debía efectuar el ataque, motivó que se debieran aligerar los aviones de bombas, ya que no se podía hacerlo con el combustible, a fin de estar en peso de catapultaje. Próximo a la hora del catapultaje, el viento era nulo, por lo que los aviones debían salir con una sola bomba cada uno, lo que hacía que las probabilidades de impacto y de daños fueran mínimas. Se corría un gran riesgo de pérdida de aviones propios, con una escasa probabilidad de éxito, por lo que se canceló la operación.

El Grupo de Tareas (FT.79) del Portaaviones ARA 25 de Mayo, estaba situado en un área al Este de Puerto Deseado, unas 120 millas mar adentro, fuera de la zona de exclusión de 200 millas impuesta por los ingleses. Mantuvo una guardia de Interceptores Listos en Cubierta (ILC) consistente en dos Douglas A-4Q equipados con cañones y dos misiles Sidewinder AIM-9B cada uno, a cinco minutos de aviso para el despegue. El avión del líder debería estar en catapulta con la prueba de motor y equipos realizada, en enlace radial con la Torre de Control (TOCO) y la Central de Informaciones de Combate (CIC) por donde el piloto recibía periódicamente actualización de la información relacionada con el despegue y los blancos.

En dos oportunidades sonó la alarma de ataque aéreo ante la aparición de blancos aéreos no identificados y se ordenó el despegue de la PAC, pero los “incursores” resultaron ser aviones de la Fuerza Aérea, que en su vuelo desde Comodoro Rivadavia o Río Deseado hacia las islas para repeler el ataque inglés que se llevaba a cabo en esos momentos, pasaban en las proximidades de la Fuerza Naval Argentina.

A mediodía fue catapultado el S-2E Tracker piloteado por el Capitán de Corbeta Dabini (2-AS-23) para búsqueda de superficie, quien informó contacto con la fuerza inglesa a 1513 hs., localizado en Latitud 49°34′ Sur y Longitud 57°10′ Oeste. A 1555 hs., la FT.79 recibió el siguiente mensaje del CTOAS: “Enemigo atacando, queda en libertad de acción”. La FT.79 puso rumbo hacia una posición relativa favorable para lanzar su ataque, navegando a 18/20 nudos en formación con cortinado circular antisubmarino anti superficie donde el ARA 25 de Mayo era el núcleo. Se ordenó a los Douglas A-4Q Skyhawk, prepararse para un eventual ataque antisuperficie antes de la puesta de sol. La tripulación de guardia que en ese momento concurrió a la conferencia prevuelo estaba integrada por: Capitán de Corbeta Philippi, Teniente de Corbeta Medici, Teniente de Navío Olmedo, Teniente de Navío Arca, Teniente de Fragata Márquez, Teniente de Navío Lecour.

Inmediatamente otro S-2E Tracker despega para colaborar en la exploración en contacto del enemigo y, luego de lograrlo, es perseguido por aviones de caza ingleses sin que estos puedan alcanzarlo. Desafortunadamente, las condiciones meteorológicas reinantes harían imposible el ataque de los Douglas A-4Q Skyhawk a estas fuerzas inglesas, las cuales se encontraban a 100 Millas náuticas al Noroeste de Puerto Argentino. Siguieron patrullando hasta que durante el regreso de la flota al apostadero, es localizado un submarino no identificado y atacado por un S-2E Tracker con torpedos, sin que se evidencien impactos, sin embargo información británica menciona que un submarino Clase Oberon fue dañado durante el conflicto.

La distancia entre las dos fuerzas navales (+200 MN) era superior al radio de acción de los Douglas A-4Q para esa configuración de armamentos y perfil de vuelo (150 Mn) y que el tiempo disponible antes de la puesta de sol (18:00 hs,) no daba para acortar distancias, el vuelo fue demorado (el A-4Q no operaba nocturno). Aproximadamente a 18:00 hs. La FT.79 cayó al Rumbo Sur, manteniendo el zigzag, en la búsqueda de una posición favorable para el lanzamiento de aviones sobre la posición de la fuerza enemiga, que sería actualizada por el S-2E Tracker explorador en la madrugada siguiente.

Concurrió a la Sala Prevuelo para recibir la información necesaria para el ataque de la mañana. Catapultaje crepuscular a 06:00 hs. Los dos señaleros quedarían abordo (Capitán de Corbeta Zubizarreta, Teniente de Navío Rótolo). Misma configuración de ataque. Luego comenzó a bajar el viento, hasta que se canceló el ataque por poco redituable. Durante el resto del día (0730 a 1800) se mantuvieron dos ILC y seis con bombas (MK-82) a 5 y 30 minutos del despegue respectivamente.

Las misiones interceptoras relatadas, y las que se describen a continuación, tenían por objeto atraer las PAC británicas, para poder infiltrar nuestras misiones de ataque a objetivos navales.  Los vuelos de los S-2E Tracker continúan durante los días subsiguientes, pero pierde contacto con el enemigo, aunque se mantiene mediante sensores de largo alcance, la certeza de su presencia en la zona.

Los S-2E serían redesplazados a la Estación Aeronaval Río Gallegos desde donde volarían recabando información sobre la localización de unidades enemigas para permitir el cruce a los medios propios, además de realizar vuelos de verificación de costa, de búsqueda y rescate de naufragios y aviadores derribados, siendo detectados e interceptados sin éxito en varias oportunidades por aviones Sea Harrier, durante todo el conflicto.

 

Really interesting reading my only goal is to fix all actions with corrected time sequence

 

Best modeling

Armando

 

PS Douglas A-4Q Skyhawks rightfully identified, crew unit and call sign Tabano Flight, weapons for surface 4 Mk 82 Snakeyes and for air cover duties AIM-9B Sidewinder 

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Following 

Note from May 5, 1982

 

Según la detección de nuestro Centro de Operaciones Electrónicas (COE), el grueso del Carrier Battle Group navegaba, con sus dos portaaviones y escoltas, en la zona E-SE, a 195 Km de Puerto Argentino. No obstante, en proximidades de la isla Los Salvajes (51°01' Sur y 61°05' Oeste), habían sido destacados una fragata y un destructor, con tres helicópteros, seguramente como piquete radar.

Se realiza un vuelo de búsqueda y rescate para localizar al Aviso ARA Alférez Sobral, el que había sido atacado, pese a su condición de hospital, por helicópteros ingleses y en el transcurso del mismo se localiza y ataca con torpedos MK-44 SW, a un submarino no identificado el S-2E Tracker (2-AS-23) con la tripulación conformado: Teniente de Navío Carlos E. Cal, Guardiamarina Gustavo Ferrari, Suboficial Segundo Rodolfo Lencina, Cabo Segundo Enzo Panaritti. Desde el ARA 25 de Mayo se envían refuerzos y las acciones continúan a cargo de un helicóptero Sea King y otro avión Tracker (2-AS-24); piloteado por Teniente de Navío Enrique Fortini y Teniente de Navío Carlos Ferrer; el cual efectúa un nuevo lanzamiento de torpedo al posible blanco. Si bien se presume clase y nombre del submarino detectado, no se lograría comprobar el resultado de ambos ataques.

 

So it look that some ASW took place, but that could be concluded force the Argentinan Fleet to port, hard to say

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On 7/16/2018 at 11:18 PM, RAGATIGER said:

Se alistaron seis Douglas A-4Q Skyhawk configurados con 4 bombas Mk. 82 de 250 kg c/u: Capitán de Corbeta Castro Fox (3-A-301), Teniente de Fragata Márquez (3-A-314), Teniente de Navío Benítez (3-A-302), Teniente de Navío Oliveira (3-A-306), Teniente de Navío Lecour (3-A-312) y Teniente de Navío Sylvester (3-A-305).

 

PS Douglas A-4Q Skyhawks rightfully identified, crew unit and call sign Tabano Flight, weapons for surface 4 Mk 82 Snakeyes and for air cover duties AIM-9B Sidewinder 

Well, that's uncle Marco, so I could easily confirm this (or not), if only he would reply back to me.

Careful, as there's a lot of rubbish that was written on both sides of the war account, so I will only confirm what the men who fought tell me it's the truth.

A four-Snakeye loadout + the two 300-gal tanks still seem a bit heavy for a Scooter on a 200 Nm+ sortie.

Still no news about uncle Marco. Only proof I was able to find was this piccie during the war where loadies were to arm A-4Ps to go on a bombing sortie over the Bomb Alley

 

DvbxYss.jpg

 

Check the Scooter on the background which is hauling a British 1000-pounder Mk17, while another one is waiting to be loaded with three ExPal bombs on a centreline TER on the foreground 

Edited by Uncle Uncool
Where are you uncle MAAAARRRCOOO...!!!
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  • 2 weeks later...

Found another one; he's the last bloke on the right - standing:

 

IMJHW9P.jpg

 

We were so fortunate no to have lost him during the Falkland war. We're so proud of him!

Also, has anyone ever heard about Lawrence Freedman's book, "Signals of war"?

Cheers,

 

Unc2

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3 hours ago, Uncle Uncool said:

Also, has anyone ever heard about Lawrence Freedman's book, "Signals of war"?

Cheers,

 

Unc2

Yes. Written with Virginia Gamba-Stonehouse. I have it.

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Top stuff @Uncle Uncool! Appreciated.

 

I picked up some Eduard 500lb Snakeyes (late type), unsure if the fins are quite right, didnt think as it was late on a Friday night, yknow? Got a load of stuff then it seems going by the post early the following week.... including 2 x resin A-4 B/P/Q seats and a little PE cockpit stuff for one of the pair I intend to build (one open canopy with steps, the other closed with no steps is the plan.

 

Start date will be later in the year though, a naughty new car just arrived to replace the one I threw unceremoniously into a ditch after 14 years of loving and beating around race tracks... careful on slippery roads folks!! Point being - Im a little distracted right now with this unBritish summer and some automotive shenanigans. :D  

5 minutes ago, Vlamgat9 said:

Yes. Written with Virginia Gamba-Stonehouse. I have it.

 

ooh, spill the beans! Whats the score with the book?

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On 7/20/2018 at 12:54 AM, Uncle Uncool said:

A four-Snakeye loadout + the two 300-gal tanks still seem a bit heavy for a Scooter on a 200 Nm+ sortie.

Not really.

You launch with minimal fuel and use that sticky outy thing on the starboard side of the nose to tank after your up.

Thats the Scooters party trick

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9 hours ago, NAVY870 said:

You launch with minimal fuel and use that sticky outy thing on the starboard side of the nose to tank after your up.

Of course, Steve; but I'm quite sure that you learnt that there was a 200Nm Total Exclusion Zone round the islands during that war, didn't you? ;)

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23 hours ago, RMP2 said:

 

 

ooh, spill the beans! Whats the score with the book?

It’s an academic study of diplomatic events leading up to Falklands War

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2 hours ago, Vlamgat9 said:

It’s an academic study of diplomatic events leading up to Falklands War

 

Thank you.

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16 hours ago, Uncle Uncool said:

Of course, Steve; but I'm quite sure that you learnt that there was a 200Nm Total Exclusion Zone round the islands during that war, didn't you? ;)

Surely did.

You can refuel more than once you know, we did it quite a bit

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I like the idea of 4x500lb snakeyes.

I reckon it would serve well both for the sheer audacity of the Skyhawk itself as well as the Argentine approach and effectiveness to the Royal Navy.

 

As much as I like accuracy, I also like what looks right - hence my Exocet armed RN FG1 Phantom. ;) Its just naughty.

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On ‎8‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 2:57 AM, NAVY870 said:

You can refuel more than once you know, we did it quite a bit

Yeh, well; not if you'd had those SHar CAPs sweeping round. ;) Actually, one of the daring tankers went down to a SHar's 30mm cannon burst because of that.

 

On ‎8‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 1:46 PM, RMP2 said:

I like the idea of 4x500lb snakeyes.

I reckon it would serve well both for the sheer audacity of the Skyhawk itself as well as the Argentine approach and effectiveness to the Royal Navy.

It's become my personal obsession to learn whether or not the Navy Scooters were ever capable of hauling four Snakeyes over the islands...

Marco...

Marcooo...

Maaarcooo...!!! :lol:

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On 8/2/2018 at 8:28 PM, Uncle Uncool said:

Yeh, well; not if you'd had those SHar CAPs sweeping round. ;) Actually, one of the daring tankers went down to a SHar's 30mm cannon burst because of that.

 

It's become my personal obsession to learn whether or not the Navy Scooters were ever capable of hauling four Snakeyes over the islands...

Marco...

Marcooo...

Maaarcooo...!!! :lol:

I reckon the 4 load out was the cancelled carrier launch trip and the pair of 500 pounders was the norm from the longer range land based trips afterwards. It makes sense to my naive head at least.

 

Any sign of those A-10 decals? Its been a while.

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