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robgizlu

Hobby Boss Nagmachon APC (early)

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Well, with virtually no modelling throughout the summer, it's finally back to the bench.  I suffer abrupt changes of modelling polarity and feel the need to put aside my 1/72 boat projects for the time being, to do some more armour.

One of my favourite tanks is The Brit Centurion and it's hard not to be mesmerized by what the IDF have done to modernise and adapt their venerable Shot Cals.  (I saw Michael Mass has written that it should be Cal not Kal?)

The Nagmachon was a project using old Centurion hulls to construct  APCs.  This will the early version without the later "Doghouse" that was built to give the crew further protection.

They have an almost sci-fi appearance in their strangeness.

The web is not exactly awash with pictures - here's the early version on the right..

 

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Reference will be the excellent Desert Eagle publishing...

 

 

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I'm told copying pictures from these volumes is particularly frowned upon.  However, they are particularly excellent and modeller-centric.

Kit versions appear from Hobby Boss and Tiger Model (costing nearly twice as much)

I'll be using the Hobby Boss version

 

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The KMT mine adapter will be fitted and I'm waiting for DEF Model to produce their promised mine roller kit.  The old Academy version that came with a Merkava 2 or  M60 is sadly no longer available.

Neither the Hobby Boss or Tiger Model versions supply the Shackles that are used with chain to help attach the side skirt armour.  Thanks to Alan Brown from Leicester Modellers to tipping me off about shackles available on Shapeways that fit the bill perfectly - sadly the first lot bought were too small:huh:

 

Shapeways - Bolted shackles

 

There's no chain supplied with this kit so courtesy of Accurate Armour

 

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And there are the too small shackles on the box:think:

 

I've never built a Hobby Boss kit before - though instructions and presentation are as per Trumpeter - simple line drawings

 

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With Colour profiles and paint callouts citing Mr Hobby, Vallejo, Model Master, Tamyia and Humbrol

 

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Mindful of the "difficulty" with the colour Sinai Gray, I'm going to trial the new AK lacquers (with some hopefully wending their way) which promises  authentic accuracy.  We shall see.

 

Construction begins with the hull tub and bogie assemblies.

 

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Dry fitting hints at what's to come..

 

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Thanks for looking

Rob

Edited by robgizlu
Syntax

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Interesting build and one worth following.

 

John.

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robgizlu:

 

I'm currently building the old Academy Blazer with the roller. The kit roller is pretty basic, so I'm using the Def Model IDF KMT-4 Mine Roller wheel set  (DM35036), which is much better - but it uses the kit arms/mounts/whatever, so is probably useless to you.

 

I'll be watching you with interest (I have the HB Doghouse II, yet to be built, which I bought for precisely the same reason as you did yours, it seems).

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Are those AKLaquers in the call out? If not, please give us the reference :) numbers.

Edited by Soeren

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I have often looked at this kit in model shops but not yet bought one - it's an interesting looking beast. I will follow your progress. :popcorn:

Kind regards,

Stix

 

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Thanks for looking in and commenting Fellas.

On 11/10/2017 at 6:25 AM, Soeren said:

Are those AKLaquers in the call out? If not, please give us the reference :) numbers.

They aren't Soeren but keep reading and I'll cover this in a minute.

 

You start a tracked vehicle and then hit the wall with all the humdrum doing of wheels and tracks 

 

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The new AK lacquer paint was delivered today. 

 

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It would be rude not to try them and I thought I'd use the build to compare the various "Sinai Grey" shades from different paint suppliers

so here goes....c4029751-f2e4-4181-930e-23298155c4dd.jpg

 

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I'm going to take some time to digest this but first impressions of the AK lacquer colour match are disapointing.

Each paint had it's own proprietary thinner used, Tamiya Lacquer was used for the Tamiya paint with a grey to khaki mix of 5 : 3 (this seems to be the web favourite with ratios of 1 : 2 grey : khaki going up to 2 : 1).  The surface was primed with Mig Ammo One Shot grey primer.  Iwata airbrush at 20 psi.

The airbrush was cleaned thoroughly after each application using Sprayaway solvent and the pics were shot in room light with one Shesto Ring fluorescent augmenting window light.

 

The Tamiya mix (far left and narrower) and the Mig Ammo "Real" colour seem closest to the images in the Desert Eagle Publication. though the colour variation in the pics as has been frequently commented on previously is ENORMOUS.

The new AK lacquers come with a "Sinai Grey 1982" mix shown on the left next to the Tamiya mix and a  "Sinai Grey since 1990" which features to the right of the grey primer.  They both seem very sandy brown without the hint of green that figures in so many original photos.  To my eye the Real Mig Ammo IDF Sinai Grey 1982 is very close to original pics especially for a cleanish (Non dusty machine).  The AK acrylic "Sinai Grey modern" is acceptable as is to my eye the Vallejo Modal Air Sinai Grey 1982 though becoming quite Grey. 

 

I'm going to mull on this.  I have Various AK lacquer British SCC colours and the Dunkelgelb set, I had high hopes given the publicity and the backing of the likes of Mike Starmer.  I'm not certain the the IDF colours are a great omen.  They spray well though I never really have problems spraying acrylics anyway.

 

WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

 

Well onwards to the tracks which are non moveable Though nicely moulded.  I have several sets of AFV CLub Centurion tracks for future builds and tried them on the idle wheels - they fit perfectly 

 

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Detail is a little finer on the AFV Club tracks (on the left) and they are marred only by having sink holes that need a fair bit of filing on the underside.

The tracks are cleaned up listening to podcasts of Neil McGregor's wonderful "Living with the Gods".  

 

There'll be a driver so the hatch needs opening up...

 

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And these arrived from those nice people at Historex today

 

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Thanks for looking

Rob

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The Vallejo Israeli sand grey acrylic primer I use seems to match up better with the Tamiya and the AK "Sinai grey since 1990" colors, darker and less brownish than the other AK and the Mig offerings, interesting comparisons though.

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Great, thanks for the comparison of colors. My online shop listed those ak lacquers recently as well. How would you rate their performance? What are these Mig real colors?

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Interesting color comparisons. I have always mixed Tamiya XF-49 and XF-20 in various ratios to achieve the more modern color. Adding various quantities Buff XF-57, gave me the earlier color. Spraying this over a dark gray auto primer from a can gave good results. 

I recently took possession of the Real Color "DAK" set and am anxious to use them. In the jar they appear to be close matches to the RAL shades.

 

G

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On 11/21/2017 at 4:29 PM, Soeren said:

Great, thanks for the comparison of colors. My online shop listed those ak lacquers recently as well. How would you rate their performance? What are these Mig real colors?

 

Soeren - The AK lacquers sprayed without bother similar to Tamiya.  That said I never have real difficulty spraying water based acrylics.  I use Mr Color Levelling thinner to thin Mig Ammo which is to date my favourite range (Thanks Andy Moore for this tip).

The Mig "Real" colours are extra takes on existing colours purporting to be more accurate.  (Which does of course beg the question - what happened int he first place?!)

 

Rob

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On ‎21‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 14:35, robgizlu said:

You start a tracked vehicle and then hit the wall with all the humdrum doing of wheels and tracks 

 

Don't get this problem with floaty things :whistle:

 

You  do pick em ' Your mummy say you're ugly, boy are you ugly!  '

 

Watching with interest

 

Kev

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On 11/23/2017 at 3:51 PM, longshanks said:

 

Don't get this problem with floaty things :whistle:

 

You  do pick em ' Your mummy say you're ugly, boy are you ugly!  '

Kev

 

:rofl:Kev ...so true.

 

I wasn't going to do an interior, it was going to be a quick build, just to get some weathering in..........we've all been here.......Well...it would be nice to have the rear doors open....and the next build of the modern version definitely won't have the interior.....Ah damn:jump_fire:

 

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There are no interior pics on the Web that I can find.  I did email Michael Mass to ask if I could scan some interior pics but he did come back to me politely declining which I completely get.

It was only after I started scratching the interior that I realised that Legend do an interior set.  Sadly the coffers are empty - if you have a burning desire to check out the details - check out the Legend productions website.  There are floor plates that hinge upwards in the turret space that allow crew to man the FNs and Browning through the hatches.  Despite it being tagged as an APC there isn't much room - there is suitable clutter over the raised cabin sides.  I've gone for "flavour" rather than exact authenticity - life is just too short for something that will only be dimly visible.

 

06/24 is doing a Puma http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235030243-idf-puma-with-nochri-mine-roller/ and arrived at the need for tread plate as I did.  Archer do a raised resin which would be suitable but with a price tag of near £18 that will have to be foregone.  Accurate amour do etched metal plate that would be a faff to cut and drill so even though it's prominent on the original we'll be foregoing accurate Diamond tread plate:suicide:

 

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I spent a happy 1/2 hour removing the casting bloc from the Legends KMT 4 adapter, it sits nicely.  An old US tank Miniart figure was used with the Honret head and the drivers position sidewalls were "filled" with Plasticard

 

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And one set of tracks was completed..

 

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So much for a quick build:rofl2:

 

Thanks for looking

Rob

 

 

 

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On ‎23‎.‎11‎.‎2017 at 15:32, robgizlu said:

 

Soeren - The AK lacquers sprayed without bother similar to Tamiya.  That said I never have real difficulty spraying water based acrylics.  I use Mr Color Levelling thinner to thin Mig Ammo which is to date my favourite range (Thanks Andy Moore for this tip).

The Mig "Real" colours are extra takes on existing colours purporting to be more accurate.  (Which does of course beg the question - what happened int he first place?!)

 

Rob

Is that mr.color.levelling thinner an acrylic thinner? Thought mr color is a lacquer like product?

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Looking good so far Rob.

 

I think the Israelis have a monopoly on ugly though as some of their rebuilt vehicles sure set the bar.

 

Take care,

 

Lloyd

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17 hours ago, Soeren said:

Is that mr.color.levelling thinner an acrylic thinner? Thought mr color is a lacquer like product?

It works Soeren despite being a lacquer product.  It sprays smoother and without clogging.

Check out Andy Moore's spray work E-100 128mm waffentrager which is always exemplary.  I'm in debt to him for this tip.

 

13 hours ago, longshanks said:

You was looking for non skid, this might be of use

http://www.squirestools.com/tools-and-materials.htm

Section 36 Page 330

 

Kev

 

Sir - you are a scholar and a gentleman;)   (and you don't know how long I spent looking.....)

Thanks

Rob

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Excellent progress on what is a very strange looking vehicle! Nice work on the interior bits and bobs too.

Kind regards,

Stix

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AMMO's paint isn't an acrylic lacquer, like the new AK stuff, but it does kind of act like one. I don't know the exact formulation, but it seems quite close to Gunze Aqueous. It certainly mixes very well with Aqueous and Tamiya, and thins very well with self levelling thinner.

 

Rob, I've not had a chance to try the new AK paints yet. I'd be interested to know if they can be mixed with AMMO. I'm guessing they can since they seem roughly the same as Tamiya/Aqueous.

 

It's a shame the IDF colours seem so far off. I'd got high hopes for this paint range, especially given the names involved. I'm hoping the Russian and SCC colours will be closer.

 

Great build so far

 

Andy:cat:

 

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I thought the AMMO acrylics were more or less the same stuff as Vallejo acrylics. Have you tried that as well? Not wanting to hijack this wip for paint discussion. But that would be interesting to know.

Edited by Soeren

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6 hours ago, Soeren said:

I thought the AMMO acrylics were more or less the same stuff as Vallejo acrylics. Have you tried that as well? Not wanting to hijack this wip for paint discussion. But that would be interesting to know.

 

Same bottles, but the paint is different. Vallejo has a more vinyl-y quality to it compared to AMMO. As far as I know, Vallejo is a true water-based acrylic, being essentially pigment, acrylic resin and distilled water. I'm not sure exactly what's in AMMO, but it does behave slightly differently to Vallejo.

I have tried thinning Vallejo with self levelling, but I wouldn't recommend it. It does thin it, but the paint has a tendency to split and separate. Same with AK (the normal range), so I assume that that's closer to Vallejo than AMMO in its formulation.

 

Apologies to Rob for gate crashing his wip.

 

Andy:cat:

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