Me 262A-1a Yellow 8 of JG 7: colours?

[Seahawk]

In what colours was Messerschmitt Me 262A-1a 112385 Yellow 8 of JG 7 painted please?  The old Errormaster sheet has this aircraft in the hard-edged 81/82 splinter pattern seen on several JG 7 aircraft, including Weissenberger's aircraft as featured by Airfix.  However in the picture below it appears to be in the later patchy 83 finish as seen on several JV 44 aircraft.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?biw=1280&bih=665&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=Me+262+JG+7&oq=Me+262+JG+7&gs_l=psy-ab.12...180974.182684.0.185244.9.9.0.0.0.0.178.973.3j5.8.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..1.0.0....0.IwT-T3r6r7E#imgrc=0Z9XAKvHQBFsSM:

 

I'm hoping someone will have access to the Schiffer book on JG 7.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Seahawk]

   117 views but nary a comment, not even to say, "As any fule kno,..."  Anyone?

Edited October 25, 2017 by Seahawk

[MIkeMaben]

Very difficult to discern any pattern. It does not look 'standard' except for the dark

splotches on the vert stab. As usual, pure conjecture is the order of the day.

 

fule  

 

 

[Troy Smith]

 

 

Me 262 A-1a W.Nr.112385 Yellow 8 of 3./JG 7. captured on April 15th 1945 at an airfield between Steindal and Borstel

 

 

 

 

 

 

all of which look rather like this,  which could be colorized,   but in particular note pattern on nacelle, also the unpainted wing underside above,  as seen by  the joint putty.

 

Messerschmitt Me 262, discovered at the KUNO I (forest factory complex in the vicinity

another of same

 

this looks like a film still

 

there maybe more info on these,   they are very dark,  

 

the standard initial camo was this

 

 

It should be noted that some Erla built 109's had similar very dark defensive camo

Bf 109 G-6 and G-14 W.Nr. unknown, Erg.KG(J) (?), Illesheim, Germany, 3 May 1945. Source: Roger Freeman collection inv. FRE 7640 via facebook.com. by Marc-André Haldimann, on Flickr

 

more here

 

Note there looks to be a amo demarcation line running diagonally by the fuel filler and cross.

 

 

which is almost full circle.....

 

perhaps using upstocks of bomber paint late war?

The very dark combo could be that,  or maybe 70/81,  or 70/82?  

maybe someone like @tango98  may know more.

[Troy Smith]

 

I note @David E. Brown  posting on the He111 thread,   so he might know more.

 

One point that I should clairify,   while there is much varition in the finish of late war Luftwaffe aircraft,   partly this is because of seeing fields of surrended aircraft mixed up  willy-nilly.

 

What researchers, like JaPo , have done is assess aircaft schemes by werk nummer,  and try to  determine if the schemes can be  atrributed to a specific factory or sub-contractor.

 

This has often shown that scheme of many batches was quite  consistent in appearance,  enough that it is possible  to then make a good guess at what plant built a specific airframe. 

It's a an interesting way of assessing the vagaries of late war Luftwaffe camouflage,  and from the JaPo book on the Bf109 and Fw190D,  quite persuasive for pinning down what was painted what. (in as much as you can pin anything from this era down!)

 

The point here is this

Messerschmitt Me 262, discovered at the KUNO I (forest factory complex in the vicinity  (Pinterest  caption)

 

 

see Me262 page here

http://www.stormbirds.com/werknummer/centers.htm

Quote

II.   Final Assembly / Test Flight Aerodromes

a. Budweis, Czech.

    2. Nose to

        i. Regensburg-Staupe

b. Burgau (Kuno II, Waldwerk Nahe Burgau)

c. Leipheim (Kuno I, Waldwerk Nahe Fliegerherst Leipheim)

d. Neuburg (a/d Donau; Fliegerherst)

e. REIMAHG (Flugzeugwerkes Reichsmarschall Hermann Goring) - Kahla (im Walpersberg

    24. Underground and bomb-proofed final assembly factory

f. Schwabisch-Hall (Waldwerk Nahe Fliegerherst Schwabisch-Hall)

g. Vilseck (Opf.) Flying Field

    24. Planned final assembly

h. Wasserburg am Inn

    24. Second concrete bunker planned final assembly factory, probably for Me 262)

i. Weingut II (Kaufering-Landsburg)

    24. First concrete bunker planned final assembly factory

 

note, final asembly would often do a pait job to 'tie togther' parts from various subcontractors.

 

so

yellow 8, Wrk Nr 112385

from

Quote

http://www.stormbirds.com/werknummer/block4.htm

 112311 to 112414 Known Production Block
112317 - Leipheim (1)     ---     ---
112349 - Leipheim (1)     ---     ---
112355 - Leipheim (1)      A-1a/U5 (1)      4/26/45 (21)
112356 - Leipheim (1)     ---     ---
112372 - Leipheim (1)     ---     ---
112385 - Leipheim (1)     ---     ---
112393 - Leipheim (1)     ---     ---
112402 - Leipheim (1)     ---     ---

 

so the above pic is likely to show the finish at planes assembled at Liephiem(1)

 

which is why I mention the similarity of the colour pic to the ones on 112385.

 

I make no claim to be correct,  but am trying to show the deductive process I used to filter what  I could find by various searches that has been demonstrated by other real  researchers.

 

anyone able  to add more or  make corrections?

 

cheers

T

 

 

 

[Seahawk]

Troy, thank you for continuing to devote your time and thought to my question.  The documentary evidence you produce certainly points strongly toward the 83/76 scheme, as in the KUNO aircraft depicted.  Either way, I am inclining away from the segmented 81/82 scheme: it is normally strikingly apparent but on 112385 it is not readily discernable in any of the 4 photos of this aircraft.  Pity, with no airbrush I can do segments but not mottled or patchy schemes.

 

PS Notice the swastika in the photo I linked to and your first?  Grau 75 (or 76) with white surround?  No, actually, just normal black (with white surround) caught by the light: compare with the aircraft serial no.

 

But Luftwaffe is Not My Subject so learned contributions still welcome.  Aware of the wealth of evidence on JV 44 aircraft, I assumed someone out there would know every nut and bolt of JG 7's! 

[Romel]

great pictures . thx

[Seahawk]

See posts 13-15 of this thread for further discussion of 112385's colours:

 

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235037398-raf-me262-colours/

 

[tango98]

Seahawk,

My good friend David E. Brown is a member of BM so I’d suggest dropping him an email or PM about this aircraft.

He has an extensive knowledge base about the 262 and the varied camo schemes applied to them. I’m sure that he’d be happy to help.

Cheers

Dave

[David E. Brown]

Thanks Dave,

 

My comments on this and related machine is posted ten (10) threads below this one: https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235037398-raf-me262-colours/

 

David

[David E. Brown]

BTW, RLM 83 - "Dunkelblau RLM 83" - is now confirmed as a dark blue martime colour for original use in the Mediterranean theatre probably alone as an uppersurface colour. In other situations, it was probably used to replace RLM 72 when used in conjunction with RLM 73.  It was created https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234998100-fw-190d-9-barkhorn-camo-scheme/&tab=comments#comment-2279223

 

The various dark green shades seen applied to late-war aircraft (when used in conjunction with RLM 82) is possibly the dark green shade of RLM 81.  When used with RLM 75 other possible colours could have been RLM 71, 72, 73 and 80 which were surplus stocks by mid-1944 when aircraft requiring use of these colours were no longer in production, e.g. Ju 87, Ju 52, He 111, Fw 200, He 115, Bv 138, etc., etc.  Production was switched almost exclusively towards day and night fighters as part of the Speer's Emergency Fighter Program, and production ceased on almost all other types. Existing paint stocks were thus utilized by firms switching to fighter production (components and/or final assembly), thus conserving stocks of precious raw materials and industrial compounds for use with more urgently required items. In addition, given the severe disruption in the transportation infrastructure, there invariably were local shortages of paints and other materials at various facilities. Thus,  when required, reduced stocks of paints at facilities were extended through dilution, application of thinner coats, leaving parts unpainted, etc.

 

Cheers,

 

David

[Seahawk]

52 minutes ago, David E. Brown said:

Thanks Dave,

 

My comments on this and related machine is posted ten (10) threads below this one: https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235037398-raf-me262-colours/

 

David

Yes, thanks for your very useful comments (hence my cross reference to them from this old thread).  You say that the wing underside is unpainted.  Does that extend to the whole of the undersides including nacelle bottoms, fuselage and tailplane (ie do we have a natural metal scheme with RLM 81 uppersurfaces) or are late Me 262 undersides partially painted like other aircraft like Fw 190s?  If the latter, can you point me towards a diagram showing, or a description explaining, which bits were and were not painted?  Many thanks in advance.

 

(I eventually decided to go for White 22 of JV44 but my model is edging towards the painting stage.)

[David E. Brown]

The main wing undersides were left unpainted with visible puttied seams.  Undersides of the engine nacelles, fuselage, and horizontal stabilizers were finished in RLM 76, or, its approximate equivalent(s).  Consult photos of the subject machine for details.

 

Cheers,

 

David