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JeffreyK

SMW now enforcing liability insurance

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Further to my mention of Market Traders, apparently there is a separate insurance division called Market Line which might be worth a check. I'm assured that my colleague is not on any commission.

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Just to clarify (as posted above, but may have been missed or misinterpreted): I (as Hypersonic Models) have had UK business insurance pretty much since day 1 of trading and as such have always had PLI cover for SMW, museums etc. anywhere in the UK.

 

My main concern is first and foremost for overseas traders as even for me in the UK it had been a bit of a struggle at first to find an insurer who actually understands the nature of my business and doesn't charge an arm and a leg for a high risk policy I don't need.

To expect a tiny overseas business with perhaps limited grasp of the English language and legal terms to find an insurer to cover them is a big ask. Yes, it's been in the contract, but was this really fully understood, in particular as IMPS UK didn't check this? I've been coming to SMW before I started my company and apart from seeing models, the wealth of companies trading there has always been the main drive to attend the show. This issue could mean losing some of those small companies in much the same way as high streets are now full of chain stores.

We don't want that to happen so we should work on a solution. Finger pointing and hubris doesn't help anyone.

I'll explore the route of stallholder insurance further and make a few phone calls as well...

 

J

 

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8 minutes ago, JeffreyK said:

..................My main concern is first and foremost for overseas traders as even for me in the UK it had been a bit of a struggle at first to find an insurer who actually understands the nature of my business and doesn't charge an arm and a leg for a high risk policy I don't need.

 

.................To expect a tiny overseas business with perhaps language and legal terms to find an insurer to cover them is a big ask. Yes, it's been in the contract, but was this really fully understood, in particular as? I've been coming to SMW before I started my company and apart from seeing models, the wealth of companies ttiny overseas businessrading there has always been the main drive to attend the show.

 

This issue could mean losing some of those small companies in much the same way as high streets are now full of chain stores.

We don't want that to happen so we should work on a solution. Finger pointing and hubris doesn't help anyone.

Er? Struggle? in 30 seconds I found one insurer offering PLI at £4.99 for one month, sufficient for ANY overseas trader, surely?

After all, they WILL be trading in the UK and they HAVE HAD a year to get it sorted.

Nature of your business? PLI is VERY simple, it's to protect both you and your customer(s) from preventable accidents OR mis-management on your part,

for both your 'fixed' trading address AND also covers you, should you visit shows, museums etc. if your 'up front' with the insurance company.

Cost will vary, dependant on cover, £1,000,000, £2,000,000, £5,000,000 or £10,000,000 WHAT is your business worth to you?

 

Solicitors phrase, "Ignorance of the law is NO defence".

 

My assumption is the "tiny overseas business" is within the EU? because I think ALL EU countries have a similar requirement for PLI or equivilent.

"Limited grasp of the English"? I've never had a problem parting with money, EVER!

"IPMS UK didn't check this" er, I think you'll find in the past it was taken on 'trust', back in the days of Stoneleigh (pre marquee(s)!)

Peterborough and Donnington, times change, things move on and the 'ambulance chasers' have smelt blood!

Ergo, TiC and IPMS (UK) by default, MUST FOLLOW THE LAW.

 

Sadly, if the proprietors of said busineses cannot or WILL NOT trade within the law of the country they are visiting,

they are NOT welcome in any capacity other than 'visitor'.

If you physically trade overseas, and you think "Ah, it'll be alright, never been caught yet!" What happens when you DO 'get caught?'

Whinning will get you NOWHERE, as you ignored the "Law of the land", end of.

 

This has NO relevance to the UK 'High Street', as all UK businesses HAVE TO HAVE PLI, why bring it up?

 

Hubris? None here as I've seen, just a fairly healthy dollop of that rare thing called "Common Sense".

 

Paul Brown

Secretary, IPMS North Riding.

Deputy SIG lead Coastal Command.

 

 

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36 minutes ago, PhoenixII said:

Er? Struggle? in 30 seconds I found one insurer offering PLI at £4.99 for one month, sufficient for ANY overseas trader, surely?

 

 

 

If you'd read my brief post you would know your conclusion to be an oversimplification, as is inevitably the case with any solution reached after a 30 second research programme to a problem that has been causing many people trouble for far longer. It's unlikely that all of the overseas traders running successful businesses who are having difficulty gaining the PL cover are just lazy or stupid, and more likely that you haven't fully appreciated the constraints that exist.

 

The country of origin matters. The underwriter of that £4.99 policy must be licensed to provide cover for a legal entity from the country of origin. As already explained by me earlier (without words emphasised in capitals and italics, admittedly) South Korea and the USA are two examples of nationalities of overseas traders who cannot buy a policy if the underwriter is Lloyds.

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Just out of interest, what happens with foreign registered vehicles when in the UK?. Perhaps closer to home though, how do overseas traders attending antique fairs and the like go on?.

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11 minutes ago, chris57 said:

Just out of interest, what happens with foreign registered vehicles when in the UK?. Perhaps closer to home though, how do overseas traders attending antique fairs and the like go on?.

How does a Brit trader trade at a Euro / USA show?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I created this thread to find a solution, both for individual traders and for SMW as a whole going forward.

Once again, finger pointing and foot stomping is not helpful.

Another idea could be to create some sort of Overseas Traders Group within IPMS UK that takes out the insurance on behalf of the overseas traders to insure their tables?

J

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Not really the ideal place to sound out a solution if that was the intent Jeff, SMW or the AGM would probably fit the bill better. If the IPMS arranges insurance cover for overseas traders do you envisage the membership footing the bill?.

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17 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

I went looking for specialist brokers that advertised temporary PL products. I rang about 3 and gave up.

 

One of them explained it was a country related issue. They could do exactly the sort of temporary cover required but their issue was the underwriter's licensing. Lloyds apparently can underwrite such cover for around 70-80 (depending who I asked) countries, but I was specifically trying to get a lead for several South Korean companies and an American one. Lloyds can underwrite neither.

This post Jamie? or one of the other two you've posted?

34 minutes ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

If you'd read my brief post you would know your conclusion to be an oversimplification, as is inevitably the case with any solution reached after a 30 second research programme to a problem that has been causing many people trouble for far longer. It's unlikely that all of the overseas traders running successful businesses who are having difficulty gaining the PL cover are just lazy or stupid, and more likely that you haven't fully appreciated the constraints that exist.

 

The country of origin matters. The underwriter of that £4.99 policy must be licensed to provide cover for a legal entity from the country of origin. As already explained by me earlier (without words emphasised in capitals and italics, admittedly) South Korea and the USA are two examples of nationalities of overseas traders who cannot buy a policy if the underwriter is Lloyds.

Not an over simplification at all, out of context? YES I was making a point.

 

Having been self employed for a decade, selling into many organisations including NHS and MOD,

I have been responsible for my own Personal Liability Insurance and Product Liability Insurance,

two very different 'animals'.

As an example, the MOD insist on £10,000,000 product liability insurance, no quible, no question.

 

Nowhere do I intimate overseas traders, successful or otherwise are lazy OR stupid. However I will reiterate, they HAVE HAD a year.

 

Your personal findings re insurance are VERY specific, as you ship potentially explosive and flammable product,

which will require specific insurance for the possible dangers.

 

Simplistic or otherwise, my thinking is, would it not make sense to go to your insurance company

in whichever country, TELL them what you need, what is required and how long for and see if

they can help?

If no help is forthcoming, contact an insurer in the country your going to and ask the same questions,

in my experience, if there's money involved, they'll help!

With the majority of countries being conected to the internet, if it took a week, in the great scheme of things,

it's the blink of an eye.

Alternatively, to pick up on a point you raise, the USA and South Korea.

Why not ASK a trader that has successfully obtained insurance, where was it issued and by whom?

Barracuda (USA) and Wolf Pack (South Korea) are two examples.

Being simplistic again, Lloyds can't be the ONLY underwriter on the planet.............SURELY??

 

Words emphasised in capitals and italics 'cos you love 'em!! :D

 

Paul

 

N.B. Information obtained from the hiscox.co.uk site, other insurers are available!

 

 

 

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The local car boot was held in the market in Beduff on a Saturday,since the traders didn't attend,the council said they had to have PLI,the booters said up yours and left to go to furnace end boot fair where no PLI was required,

Does anyone think that it's now time to find a new  venue ?

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If  the show moved which it wont  no matter where you go you will need insurance 

On the Facebook page this discussion has being closed down in the IPMS member area 

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10 hours ago, Arachnid said:

The local car boot was held in the market in Beduff on a Saturday,since the traders didn't attend,the council said they had to have PLI,the booters said up yours and left to go to furnace end boot fair where no PLI was required,

Does anyone think that it's now time to find a new  venue ?

 

Well thats fine for an insignificant little car boot sale, but for something as well organised and prestigious as SMW I think you'll find the response to that suggestion pretty much unprintable.

 

If you are unhappy with the rules, feel free to set up your own show...

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Really don't get it, surely traders sort their insurance, end of.  If I am driving my car abroad it is up to me to ensure Insurance Coverage.  This is no different.  

 

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All businesses should be insured, yes.

 

I suspect next year once all the international traders know that it really is required now they may not book tables if they can't actually get insurance easily.

 

It'll self correct in one way or another.

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I don't get it either

 

This is Britmodeller

 

SMW is an IPMS venture and they have no choices in how the event has to be organised but I am sure the committee will have discussed all of the ramifications, so why all the discussions here?

 

😕

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I cannot comment on overseas traders, but any UK traders, trading at SMW needs it, and it does not cost a lot.  Basic Market Trader insurance will cover it, and its the PLI part of it, that's worth it.

 

I pay quite a lot but we have a warehouse and 5 staff members, but when I first started just on shows it was only about £50.00 per year, which is worth it to cover your rear.

 

OK the risk of you killing or injuring someone with your Plastic kit or paint is low, and that why you will not pay a lot.

 

https://stallholders.org/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIqLOPl7CO1wIVBZ8bCh1TUAacEAAYAiAAEgIeivD_BwE

 

Trader follow the link and get yourself covered for £59.99, if you cannot afford that you do not deserve to be selling at SMW.

Edited by TIGER HOBBIESLIMITED

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As already mentioned, this is an issue between IPMS and traders, so other than people getting into a bit of a tizz about it and venting, there's not a lot that can be achieved here.  In this litigious age we live in, it's pretty much mandatory to have insurance unless you want to feed your bank balance into the grinder of legal action.  There won't be much coming out the other side, of that I'm certain.

 

I'm sure everyone is now aware of the requirement, and to avoid further gnashing of teeth & spats, I'm closing it down.  Communications between the affected parties and their insurers is always the best option for a resolution. :)

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