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Was there yellow primer under the cammo on a Hurricane?


Harry_the_Spider

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probably

31930566440_3517c660d3_o.jpgHawker Hurricane repairs,c1940 by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

despite the caption I suspect this is a production line shot.

 

BUT

 

note in general Huricanes do not chip, and when they do, it's back to metal.

here is a very weathered Navy training Hurricane, 

4162925396_eac3dbda9e_o.jpgHawker Sea Hurricane Mk.1a by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

some 1940 era Hurricanes have poor paint adhesion, and have very obvious paint flaking off,  but  in general the  paint was very durable

 

here's a another trainer

2526720177_8b3fb64b1e_o.jpgSea Hurricane by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

note very little bare metal, maybe some scuffing back to primer on the walkway area (or is it mud?) 

another view. again, look at the paint, even in the high traffic areas,  gun bays, engine panels,  the paint is in very good condition.

6970130755_fb6b8f855d_o.jpgArmourers at work. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

all from @Etiennedup  great flickr of ww2 colour

these are all the Hurricanes

https://www.flickr.com/search/?user_id=8270787%40N07&view_all=1&text=hurricane

 

HTH

T

 

 

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Is the top colour photograph of a Sea Hurricane? The reason I ask is that there were three Universal Primers in use on British aircraft during the war and afterwards:-

 

Dark Grey 33B/207 (replacing 210) later 874

Light Grey 33B/260 later 875

Yellow 33B/213

 

The first two Greys were intended for application to aluminium, aluminium alloys and wood, with Dark or Light to be chosen according to the final camouflage finish, e.g. Light for Medium Sea Grey. They could be applied by brush or spray but spraying was recommended for anything other than small parts. The Yellow, which contained chromates, was specially prepared for application to magnesium alloys but "it is sometimes used, however on sea-going aircraft". It was supposed to to be applied by brush only as spraying it was considered harmful.  

 

Fabric areas were primed with red dope 33B/124.  

 

Stores reference numbers are from 1942 to 1948.

 

Nick

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Question.

 Regarding the top picture of the hurricane undercarriage.

 

When painting a kit why do I spend lots of my time masking up wheels and spend ages getting a good blemish free finish?

 

 

Selwyn

Edited by Selwyn
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6 hours ago, Selwyn said:

Question.

 Regarding the top picture of the hurricane undercarriage.

 

When painting a kit why do I spend lots of my time masking up wheels and spend ages getting a good blemish free finish?

 

 

Selwyn

Because those are not in service wheels and tyres, they look like they are just being used for the build ( or whatever is going on there ).

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5 hours ago, gingerbob said:

Nick, no doubt you've answered this somewhere before, but have you got any sort of "what it looks like" reference for those grey primers?

No, I'm afraid not. The relevant documentation is more concerned with performance than colour and although the primers were improved and evolved they did so under the same generic colour descriptions.

 

Nick

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In relation to the colour photo posted above of the young lass working on the yellow painted Hurricane structure, are we sure that this is a British assembled Hurricane on a British production line?

 

The reason I ask is that I can't remember any mention of yellow (which would suggest a type of zinc chromate type primer/paint) in the recovery and rebuild of P3351 in NZ. I have Brodie's book of the rebuild but it's buried in one of the boxes from our shifting country so I'll have to hunt it out.

 

Is there the possibility that this is from Canada and could even be an airframe in Canada undergoing repairs?

 

TBH I'm not certain that yellow colour primers/paints were generally used on British assembled airframes at this time. I'll ask the conservator at the aviation museum I do work for as he's a dab hand with this stuff.

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2 hours ago, Smithy said:

In relation to the colour photo posted above of the young lass working on the yellow painted Hurricane structure, are we sure that this is a British assembled Hurricane on a British production line?

 

The reason I ask is that I can't remember any mention of yellow (which would suggest a type of zinc chromate type primer/paint) in the recovery and rebuild of P3351 in NZ. I have Brodie's book of the rebuild but it's buried in one of the boxes from our shifting country so I'll have to hunt it out.

 

Is there the possibility that this is from Canada and could even be an airframe in Canada undergoing repairs?

 

TBH I'm not certain that yellow colour primers/paints were generally used on British assembled airframes at this time. I'll ask the conservator at the aviation museum I do work for as he's a dab hand with this stuff.

 

Quite possibly,  the photo is captioned  in link

Quote

Hawker Hurricane repairs,c1940

A member of the ATS attends to the undercarriage of a Hawker Hurricane.

And this does not look like repairs.  Remember that Hurricane were built in Canada, so this could quite well be in Canada?

 

here (and it's  not a very good write up on Hurricane variants  BTW)

https://intscalemodeller.com/viewtopic.php?t=22712

these couple of image  I've not seen these before.

which are interesting for it looks like (late war?) that the underside colour became the colour  used in the wheel wells and gear legs and doors,  

Hurricane_assembly_and_production_wing_c

 

Hawker_Hurricane_assembly_radiator.jpg

 

 

 

compare to the only (other?) colour image of a Hurricane on the production line

91f7a6f5971599cb879f3012bba09e88.jpg

 

@Selwyn  note the Azure Blue on the tyres.... 

 

No help with the primer colour,  but perhaps adds a little more to the general Hurricane info pool.

 

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8 hours ago, Smithy said:

 

TBH I'm not certain that yellow colour primers/paints were generally used on British assembled airframes at this time. I'll ask the conservator at the aviation museum I do work for as he's a dab hand with this stuff.

They weren't. As already mentioned the Yellow UP was intended for application to magnesium alloys and sometimes used on sea-going aircraft. The commonly used primers were grey. That comes from official documentation, not from some "dab hand" conservator who, however "dab" a "hand" will not have examined every aircraft produced in British factories but only a few surviving airframes. 

 

Nick

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13 hours ago, Nick Millman said:

They weren't. As already mentioned the Yellow UP was intended for application to magnesium alloys and sometimes used on sea-going aircraft. The commonly used primers were grey. That comes from official documentation, not from some "dab hand" conservator who, however "dab" a "hand" will not have examined every aircraft produced in British factories but only a few surviving airframes. 

 

Nick

 

Awfully sorry but I was responding more in relation to the first photo in this thread which appears to show a Hurricane with yellow paint applied, rather than your post specifically.

 

But actually is there really any call for the sarcastic rudeness in the fourth sentence of your response? I was merely mentioning talking with a colleague who works as a conservator, has surviving pieces of a Hurricane wreck, has the wartime maintenance and product manuals and who has worked on aircraft archaeological recovery. Or are you the only member allowed to contribute to this thread?

 

You appear to be an expert on paint and paint formulations but judging by the tone you used above, your manners and the way you respond to other members needs a little work.

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It may just be the caption to the original posting, but why would an ATS girl be working in an aircraft factory?  And without the protective overalls seen in other photos?  The mobile jig/trolley mounting of the centre-section in post 13 does look very similar, but then it would, wouldn't it?

 

There does appear to be a considerable difference between the neat yellow appearance of the internal structural parts and the crude overspray elsewhere.  This may also point to the use of gash/dummy parts at this stage of assembly, replaced before final assembly and flight trials.

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19 hours ago, Smithy said:

 

Awfully sorry but I was responding more in relation to the first photo in this thread which appears to show a Hurricane with yellow paint applied, rather than your post specifically.

 

But actually is there really any call for the sarcastic rudeness in the fourth sentence of your response? I was merely mentioning talking with a colleague who works as a conservator, has surviving pieces of a Hurricane wreck, has the wartime maintenance and product manuals and who has worked on aircraft archaeological recovery. Or are you the only member allowed to contribute to this thread?

 

You appear to be an expert on paint and paint formulations but judging by the tone you used above, your manners and the way you respond to other members needs a little work.

 

Well perhaps you should have read the whole thread before jumping in.

 

I'm no expert but simply shared some facts which you disregarded, as you now admit. Therefore you might look to your manners and the way that you respond to other members.

 

Nick

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1 hour ago, Nick Millman said:

 

Well perhaps you should have read the whole thread before jumping in.

 

I'm no expert but simply shared some facts which you disregarded, as you now admit. Therefore you might look to your manners and the way that you respond to other members.

 

Nick

 

I did read the thread before I “jumped in” and I was asking whether the aircraft in the first photograph could be in Canada and therefore the possibility that zinc chromate could be used in that country. I then mentioned that perhaps I could ask a work colleague. In no way was I rude or impolite in that post to anyone and certainly not to you.

 

But your sarcastic and rude reply was just that, rude and impolite and in truth uncalled for. If you think that replying to others in that way is completely OK then I still think that you do have a problem with your tone and your manners. It’s easy to be rude to someone on the end of a keyboard but ultimately it says and demonstrates a lot more about the person being rude than anyone else.

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1 hour ago, Smithy said:

 

I did read the thread before I “jumped in” and I was asking whether the aircraft in the first photograph could be in Canada and therefore the possibility that zinc chromate could be used in that country. I then mentioned that perhaps I could ask a work colleague. In no way was I rude or impolite in that post to anyone and certainly not to you.

 

But your sarcastic and rude reply was just that, rude and impolite and in truth uncalled for. If you think that replying to others in that way is completely OK then I still think that you do have a problem with your tone and your manners. It’s easy to be rude to someone on the end of a keyboard but ultimately it says and demonstrates a lot more about the person being rude than anyone else.

It's no good referring to parts of your comment that I didn't even respond to and projecting to make me the bad guy. You wrote (and I quoted in my response):-

 

"TBH I'm not certain that yellow colour primers/paints were generally used on British assembled airframes at this time. I'll ask the conservator at the aviation museum I do work for as he's a dab hand with this stuff."

 

And I replied:-

 

"They weren't. As already mentioned the Yellow UP was intended for application to magnesium alloys and sometimes used on sea-going aircraft. The commonly used primers were grey. That comes from official documentation, not from some "dab hand" conservator who, however "dab" a "hand" will not have examined every aircraft produced in British factories but only a few surviving airframes."

 

If you had read the thread then you must have been deliberately disregarding my earlier post about primers when you wrote that. Which seemed rude. Which prompted my unfortunate reply. Which aroused such indignation from you. 

 

You can't get to the one without the other I'm afraid, but in hindsight I should not have written that last peeved sentence. I had no reason to believe your conservator friend was not a dab hand at whatever stuff he dabs his hand in.  

 

Nick

 

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On 23/10/2017 at 2:33 AM, Troy Smith said:

I’ve nothing particularly constructive to add to this thread other than to pass on the observation that the paint job above is rather slap dash. I can’t remember another photo of how can I say it a ‘naff’ application of camouflage or whatever. Surely even in the depths of war someone would take a pride in their work. After all someone could be going to fight in that plane. Even the jig to the left of the photo is covered. Could it be that this is some sort of training rig?

 

One other point, I’m sure Edgar said that this photo was taken in Canada.

 

Trevor

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It's war time, what's the life expectancy of the aircraft likely to be, they probably were more concerned about the quantity rather than the quality at that point I would think, especially when it came to painting and not crucial parts of the airframe.

 

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Thats the sort of thinking and attitude the aircraft companies had to fight within their workers

A B-17 may have only lasted a few missions but it had to be built as if it was to last forever; to build with any less care was endangering the crew's lives

Some early Mk1 Hurricanes were struck-off-charge [soc] in 1945, whilst some Mk.IV only lasted a few months. No one can tell just how long an aircraft will remain in use during a war

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In the photo above,the frame seems to be spray painted while the landing gear is sloppily brush painted, also the tyres have bald spots.

Perhaps the paint on the landing gear is not paint but a coating like cosomline to be removed later.

 

Just a thought

 

Garry c

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