Personal WW1 Group Build: MkIVs & Whippet

[Kingsman]

Apologies, but the published versions of these posts came out slightly differently to how I composed them.  I had carefully arranged the groups of 3 and 2 photos on one line each, but they came out on 2.  There is no "preview" facility on this site.  So some of the comments about left and right pictures don't match.  Right means lower.

 

I'll take Clive's history lesson comment as a compliment - but with apologies to anyone who just wants to see models being built or who knew all the foregoing anyway.   But it was new to me, and discovering that not one single model that came back on my searches had got it right made it worthy of explaining.  This was something almost lost in the mists.

 

Clive and I seem to think alike: we like to explain what we're doing and why we're doing it - not just say "look what I did".

 

 

 

 

[Kingsman]

Fuel can rack across the back of the Beute Female.  Wood veneer and scrap etch fret.  German style 20 litre triangular cans are Panzer Art, with a 1 gal oil can from Resicast. 

 

It seems that the British-style 2 gal can was also used, being something of a commercial standard in those times.  A potential use for the redundant Texaco cans in the Panzer Art set: although Texaco products were sold under the BP brand in the UK in the WW1 period, Texaco was active on the Continent.  IIRC they set up shop in Belgium before the war, behind what became German lines.

 

And a better view of the string of cans across the back of the Male.  The thread "rope" will be re-strung after painting.  Yes, I did get one of the mud scrapers between the track frames the wrong way round without noticing, but it won't show with the tracks on.

[Kingsman]

Finally got round to stowing up the Female.  I took inspiration from this picture, especially the roof-top fuel cans, but didn't set out to copy it. 

 

There's a lot you can't see or make out on top and between the horns.  I'd love to know what's stowed between the horns on the left (blocking the vent!), but just can't make it out clearly enough.  Not even on the 6 foot high enlargement of this photo on the entrance wall at Bovington.  It is round: a barrel maybe?  200 litre/50 gallon steel drums weren't around then AFAIK.  A tin bath crossed my mind, but no-one makes an empty one in scale (at least not that I can find) and my schoolboy geometry isn't up to drawing up plans to make one from sheet metal.

 

Most of the small items like tools are still loose for painting and final positioning.  2 gal fuel cans are Panzer Art, 1 gal are Resicast.  Crates are from MR Modellbau (WW1 set), Panzer Art (ration and .303 ammo) and Homefront (open one).  Folded/rolled canvas is from Red Zebra.  Bucket is RB Model.  I raided the bits box for the helmets, packs ponchos and tools.  Some of the tools, like the wood saw and axes, are vintage Historex.  Can't be seen at the moment under the helmets, but there are some Scale Link white metal (1/32) oilers and tools in the open crate.

 

Apart from the still-awaited Lewis barrels I think I'm calling this done, and therefore all of them done - apart from finishing or re-making the fascine for the Male.  Painting time.  I was intending to wrap the exhausts with thread post-painting to represent the asbestos winding.  But I'm beginning to regret that choice and think I should just have wrapped the thread now and painted it.  Decisions and consequences (and sweary words!).

 

Edited February 14, 2018 by Das Abteilung
correction

[Carius]

Excellent progress 

[clive_t]

Looking excellent, I've been looking forward to seeing these with their paint on

[Kingsman]

Your wish is my command, Mr Clive..........  Well, primer anyway.  4 Brown Objects.

 

This is Army Painter Leather Brown rattle can primer.  It's the best out-of-the-can primer match for an armour plate colour I've found yet.  Ideally, it would be a little darker.  I tried a Tamiya TS-1 Red Brown rattle can on the Whippet, although this isn't a primer.  This is a little darker but it was putting too much paint on for my liking for a primer coat so I finished off with the Leather Brown.  I will hairspray these before colour-coating, not having had much success with chipping fluids.  These seem to be time-sensitive in their use, whereas hairspray doesn't seem to be.

 

I haven't found any evidence that Mk IVs were primed in red, white or grey, especially looking at wear-through on the Bovington herd.  But these have mostly been repainted at least once.  As paints in those days were all white-lead-based anyway I don't think it would have been necessary.  Pigment and white lead powder was mixed by dry weight with the oil or turpentine base for immediate use.  It didn't keep once mixed and had to be used.  2 coats were applied, by brush: no soft edge camo.  Some colour variation was inevitable.  Same for the German rework line at BKP20. 

 

A quick blow over with rattle can white on the Whippet engine cover and fuel tank as a base for a better coat.  Forgot to hairspray these first .........

 

Tracks are done with the same base colour as they were made from the same type of plate, just 6mm rather than 8-12mm.  Of course the plate overlaps left an unpainted strip I'll have to deal with where visible.  I was planning on finishing the inside faces first and then doing the outside faces once mounted.

 

I have an exam-cum-audition on Tuesday and another the following Tuesday, so I don't imagine there will be any more progress for 10 days or so.  I haven't auditioned for anything since 1989 or been examined on anything since 1990.  Rex sat poised high above the crowd as an expectant hush descended: but he was an Old Dog, and this was a New Trick.......

 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2018 by Das Abteilung
forgot picture .......

[clive_t]

Wow, the paint really does show up the rivet detail now.

 

Are you auditioning for some kind of musicianship thing? Good luck with it, whatever it is 

[Kingsman]

Voluntary "job" thing.  Test of knowledge and presentation before let loose for real.  1989 should have read 1998.  I was a tutor at an MOD training centre 1998-2003 and a signals instructor in the TA 1993-97, so it isn't a complete novelty.

 

The rivet effect is mostly the lighting angle, but WW1 tanks do seem to come up well with pin wash and drybrush.  3,000 rivets in close formation.  All 3 Mk IVs will be different colours: brown, green and multi cam.  Whippets were all green.

[Redcoat2966]

Hi

 

Nice set of builds there. A subject I aim to get into one day.

 

Just a tip if you haven't heard it before. I use to work in the 3D retail industry as a designer. And had a lot of time managing model makers in my various company workshops. What they use to do to get a better coverage for spray cans that was thinner and a better lay of the paint, was to put hot water in a bucket, then drop the can in for 5 to 10 minutest. Warm up the can. They had to get the best finish for clients to review the models.....

[Kingsman]

Haven't heard that one before for aerosol paint, although it used to be a common trick for airbrush propellant cans.  Must give it a try.  As a general rule I only use rattle cans for primer on military models. 

 

My concern would be that as well as warming the paint liquid it will increase the gasification rate of the compressed propellant and thus increase the spray pressure and volume.  This may not always be desirable.

 

I recall that someone in the past (Verlinden?) used to advocate warming paint before airbrushing, probably enamels.  But with acrylics that might foster premature drying unless a retarder is used.  Rapid drying in the spray can be a problem even at room temperature.

[Redcoat2966]

Hi

 

What it does, reduces the size of the droplet the team at the model shop told me. Agreed on water based, not advisable to warm the paint. Increase the distance maybe 6", and I've always found it goes on much thinner and lessen's to a bare minimum loss of detail.

 

Simon.

[Kingsman]

This is more like Work Not In Progress.  Far too perishing cold out in the garage for fine work with cold hands and for paint spraying!  So I've been reading up on painting and finishing ideas from others, imitation being the sincerest form of flattery.  Alternatively, originality is the art of remembering useful stuff but tactically forgetting where you saw/heard/read it...................!

 

There's a big enlargement of the stowed Female photo - posted a couple of posts further up - in the entrance lobby at Bovington.  Still can't clearly see what's stowed at the back, but I still reckon it's a tin bath.  That enlargement did reveal that the stick-like object propped against the unditching beam is in fact a random Mauser 98 rifle.  Who knew?

 

The extra Aber Lewis gun barrels for the Female have arrived.  I ordered a set of Aber brass MG08 muzzles too for the Beute Female, and some Taurus resin ones which turned out to be for the aircraft version of the gun: no flash hider cones. 

 

Goody box from Warsaw in today's post with them in. So that's what €410 looks like............  Wristwatch not included!  The Zloty exchange rate has nose-dived now too and it's cheaper in €: used to be the other way round by about 10%. 

 

 

[Soeren]

That's a nice upgrade parts ! But that's your office, not your bench?

You have an E75 in the works as well? The Trumpeter kit?

Edited February 28, 2018 by Soeren

[Kingsman]

That's the breakfast bar in my kitchen.  Close to the connecting door to the garage.  I could lay it all out there and check it off on my inventory spreadsheet (yes, I'm that sad.......) before stowing it away in the relevant kit or storage boxes out in the garage.

 

Believe it or not, the L/100 88 barrel is an attempt to find an appropriate barrel for the British 3.75 CS howitzer on an A10.  I was going to nip off enough of the muzzle end, ream it out slightly and sacrifice the rest to the scrap box.  But it's actually more tapered towards the muzzle end than it looked in the photos, so probably no good.  The 3.75 barrel is almost completely straight-sided and very thin-walled, with no muzzle collar.  No-one makes one yet.

 

The rest is mostly destined for other stash projects or the "stowage" bits box.  I tend to buy in large splurges from time to time, especially from overseas, rather than in penny packets.  Makes the shipping much more reasonable.  Only a few cents per item on this lot.

[Kingsman]

I was at a talk on Tuesday given by Dick Taylor, author of the Warpaint books.  He suggested that many MkIVs were only painted brown, and perhaps the later green, where it showed to the enemy.  Any or all of the roofs, undersides and the rear between the rear horns may have been left in factory grey to save time and paint.  That brings an interesting painting possibility.

[Kingsman]

This blog has been dormant for a while.  Don't worry, I'm still alive.  OK: now worry.........  I thought I'd get on with building my Schneider and FT-17 while it was too cold and damp for more painting, and they kinda took over.  See other blog.

 

But my long-awaited house move is now finally going ahead so the modelling stuff will all be going into storage while that goes on to keep it out of the way of ham-fisted removal men, and so I don't have to bother with it immediately and not until I've had time to set up the garage and study again to my liking.  Probably won't be any progress now until June.  But with getting less ££ than I wanted for this house and paying more ££ than I wanted for the new one, a lot of stash stuff may be going on eBay so that I can eat more than once a month!

[Kingsman]

While I had the airbrush out for the Bedford I thought I might as well catch up with the other WIP still in primer.

 

Some of the masking didn't work too well and some touching-up will be needed.  I ended up covering the red and white areas - which I'd painted first - with Wilder masking fluid as I couldn't get tape to seal over the detail for the colour coat.  Same tape problem with the red areas, despite trying several brands, hence the various bleeds.  The name on the Whippet front is a very nice vinyl mask from DN Models.  They provide the cab numbers too, but I didn't think to paint white areas to use them.  Decals it is, then.

 

The white is actually Vallejo's Off White, which was damn difficult to spray.  Even well thinned I had to empty and clean out the airbrush and reload it with the paint extremely thinned: I think it ended up at about 90% Vallejo thinner (which is strange milky stuff).  The main colours except one are from AK Interactive's WW1 set, with which I was very impressed. Sprayed well with minimal thinning, probably would have sprayed fine neat.  Clay Brown for the Female, Stone Grey for the base of what will be the Beute Female and Moss Green for the Whippet.  I think the latter is perhaps a bit too green and could be darker.  Let's see what a wash or 2 will do.  The Male is actually painted with Model Air Green G3: having used this on the Bedford I thought it looked about the right sort of green shade with a hint of brown.  On all of them I tried to keep the spray pattern vertical and vary the density to allow some of the brown primer to show through for a bit or tonal variation.  Doesn't really show in the pictures.

 

  

 

  

[Soeren]

Hey there Das Abteilung

Reading your problem with Vallejo paint. I have similar issues every now and then as well. It must be due to clogging of paint. Cant be for sure it is a problem from the start. You never now what the distributor does. Sometimes I have the feeling they just didnt store the stuff properly. But a possible solution I read about recently, put the paint through a patch of ladies nylons. This will keep all clogs out of the cup.

 

[Kingsman]

It wasn't so much lumps: it was just really, really thick.  I have had it for a while, maybe 4 or 5 years, so maybe the medium had evaporated a bit.  Some thinner went into the bottle when I'd finished followed by much shaking, but it probably needs replacing. 

 

On which subject I always put a ball bearing in every new pot of paint of every brand that doesn't come with one already in, and give them a good shake before putting away.  But with many paints - over 1,200 at the last count! - and limited modelling I'm finding pots dried up.  Revell acrylics don't keep well once unsealed as the lids aren't properly airtight.  I went for their silk white first but it had solidified.

 

I nearly had a disaster with the Hataka G4 for the 2nd coat on the Bedford.  Went to squeeze a few drops into the palette well.  Nothing.  Squeezed a bit harder.  Nothing.  Squeezed a bit harder still.  Kersploosh!  The bottle nozzle must have blocked despite being kept capped tightly.  Fortunately just got a messy palette and a splattered old shirt: no real harm done.  Managed to slurp some of the excess paint back into the bottle with a pipette.  So, learning point: check Hataka nozzles first.

[PlaStix]

Hi Das. Great progress despite the paint issues. Because I don’t use an airbrush when doing painted stripes on my builds I stipple on the paint. I mask off the area immediately next to the area to be painted using very thin strips of Tamiya masking tape - probably just over a millimetre wide. I put it on and then use a tiny screwdriver end to manoeuvre it into place and press it down. As the tape is very thin it is very flexible and goes over any detail or raised areas with relative ease. I then use a slightly wider piece outside that one and then a wider piece outside that. When I apply the paint I use stippling brushes of various widths. I thin the acrylic paint with water and then almost dry the brush off on paper. The paint is quite thinned and as the brush isn’t very wet the paint doesn't seep under the tape much, if at all.

 

I've just been doing the white and red areas on my Whippet build........white areas:

 

And the red areas:

 

It takes quite a while to build up the colour but the result in the photos shows how it looks immediately after the tape is removed - ie. with no touching up.

 

Hope that's of some use in future.

 

Kind regards,

 

Stix

[Bullbasket]

Stix, you're a hairy stick genius. I couldn't achieve that finish with an air brush.

 

John.

[Kingsman]

Well you certainly made a very much better job of it than I did, although it might look better once tidied-up.  And there's always mud and grease...........  I've never tried spraying something like this before.  The demarcations are in awkward places and I didn't help on the Whippet by adding the late reinforcing ribs on the horns.  One of those things you perhaps regret starting.  Makes me wonder about the wisdom of attempting Caunter stripes on a Bronco A9: lots of rivets - not to mention the awkward shapes.

 

The red stripes were tape-masked over the white base with 2mm JammyDog Tape edges and wider tape further out.  The ends of the white areas were similarly tape-masked so I didn't have trouble with the green looking different over white at the joins.  I found this paper-type tape more flexible than the vinyl-feeling Tamiya type, which I also tried: OK on the flat, not much use over details as it won't bend sharply into edges and corners.  But even so there was bleed.  I kept the red paint as thick as I dared to spray.

 

I used the Wilder liquid mask over the completed striped area, which was certainly easier than tape.  I had both red and blue colours but used the blue so I could see it over the red.  And I still managed to miss a couple of areas.

 

I have to say that the DN Models vinyl mask for the name worked a treat.  Stuck well all round, no bleed, no residue.  I could have used the outline version and sprayed the white over the green, but then I would have needed to carefully position the little pieces for the insides of hollow letters.  Masking over the white with the cut out name seemed to make more sense, especially as 2 other faces of the fuel tank had the white-red-white stripes.

[Kingsman]

This thread has been dormant for a while as I've been concentrating on the French WW1 pair.  Now they're done it's time to pick it up again.

 

All 4 have been base painted as shown above, but being in camouflage mode after the Frenchies I decided to have a go at the beutepanzer.  Here of course we run into the colour debate.  On another forum a member asked for Vallejo colour recommendations for German camo, buntfarbenanstich.   This pre-supposes that we have something to match against, which we don't.  The nearest matches are a few surviving WW1 helmets still in original paint, and all these show us is that the colours used varied wildly. 

 

As I've noted before in this thread, paints of that period were not codified and were not manufactured in the way we understand it.  Companies and military stores held stocks of dry pigments, white lead and linseed or other oil and mixed up paint as needed, and it had to be used quickly as it didn't keep.  So no-one really knows what they actually looked like.  Also, there was no spray-painting in those days (not until mid-20's in the US, later in Europe) so there would be no soft-edged WW1 schemes as sometimes modeled.

 

The helmet colours show that the brown ranged from chocolate to dull burgundy, the green ranged from grey-green to bottle green and that the yellow could be quite yellow.  Interestingly, none of the surviving helmets show the very orangey brown depicted on the Takom box art and copied by many modelers.  In their instructions they recommend WW2 rotbraun, which is not a bad middle-ground colour idea.

 

I tried the Ammo MiG WW1 colors for brushing and abandoned them quickly.  Their green is at the bottle green end, the brown is far too pale and the sand is too cream.  Also they are hopeless for brushing: too thin and runny with poor coverage and odd surface tension.  In the end I used the same Revell reddish-brown as on the French tanks, 36137.  I'm thinking that the same pigments may have been used across Europe, as they were mostly earth and mineral pigments in those days.  For the sandy colour I used Revell's Sandy Yellow 36116, which has a very yellow colour.  For the green I ended up after trying several pots with Agama's R15M Uniform Dark Yellow Green.  It's a Russian uniform colour apparently, but was close to one of the helmet greens. The Revell colours only really needed one coat with a bit of touch-up, but the Agama needed 2.  I like Revell paints for brushing: while their range is quite small it is larger than Tamiya's.  I find that Tamiya paints drag when you brush them.  Base colour is sprayed Ammo MiG Stone Grey 075 oversprayed with AK Interactive French Artillery Grey 4052 for some tonal variation.

 

But if I'd had any idea how difficult the decals would be I might not have done this scheme!  The kit decals were too fragile.  Some broke getting them off the backing, and trying to get them over the rivets just resulted in little broken pieces even with Micro Sol.  Hmmm.....  You can't place the crosses where they don't cross rivets.  I had a Peddinghaus beutepanzer set, so I tried those.  Better, but other problems.  They need individual trimming as they're on a single film: not unusual.  But their film is very tough and while it doesn't tear or break easily it doesn't stretch much either.  Even after hours soaking with repeated Micro Sol applications they wouldn't come close to conforming, by which time I needed some Tamiya decal adhesive as the original had washed away.  In the end I resorted to finding a pipette with a fine end and forcing this over the rivets to press the decals down, then touching up the rivet heads.  But the front arms of the front crosses are still a bit iffy.  Don't look too closely........

 

Strangely, the kit tactical circles worked over the rivets with Micro Sol and touch-up.  The one they give for the cab front is too big for the space it should occupy, but they weren't universal.  The tank I'm sort of copying with MG08s in the front sponson mounts seemed to have circles with a dot in the centre, so I cut out the numbers in the kit decals and punched little dots from a red decal sheet.  It had no name or numbers and smaller crosses at the rear than at the front.

 

Here she is pristine.  Now for washing and weathering, stowage and tracks.  Not much non-stowage detail painting on any of these, but I'm beginning to regret attaching the rear fuel cans in the rack, although they were probably grey anyway.  Sorry only 2 pics after loads of words.............

 

 

[stips]

This looks very promising
I'm following with interest

Finger up for project and idea👍

Edited October 18, 2018 by stips

[Kingsman]

I hope you mean thumb up!  Finger up can have an entirely different meaning here .................😲😁

 

It all starts out promising, then has a habit of going a bit wrong.