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1/48 - MiG-23MF "Flogger-B" & MiG-23ML "Flogger-G" by Eduard (Trumpeter plastic) - released - MiG-23BN "Flogger-H" in October 2019

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6 hours ago, exdraken said:

then there always is the ESCI/ Italeri Flogers to be called awfull.... rightfully so by today's standards!

Paid loads of quid for the Kazan correction set for the ESCI Flogger back in "they're" day to end up with an awful replica of the Flogger all the same. :suicide:

Ne'er thought that many lifetimes later I'd still have to pay a load of quid to correct a new-tool kit of the Flogger. This time the end result was a lifetime better replica, tho.

6 hours ago, Masinissa said:

Uh-huh... which comes round to prove that even Eduard realised that the suckers in the Trumpy kits sucked.

Yeh, it does.

Cheers,

 

Unc2

 

Why is it that I feel like the plastic kit manufacturing industry is going backwards with each passing year, when it's supposed that making kits should be a lot more easy as it was before? New released kits are still requiring loads of resin aftermarket to look good. Why...???!!! Is it made on purpose? Methinks...

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10 hours ago, Uncle Uncool said:

 

Why is it that I feel like the plastic kit manufacturing industry is going backwards with each passing year, when it's supposed that making kits should be a lot more easy as it was before? New released kits are still requiring loads of resin aftermarket to look good. Why...???!!! Is it made on purpose? Methinks...

With all due respect, they don't actually require a single penny to be spent on aftermarket resin frippery to "look good"! That is the modellers choice. They could equally choose to (a)  build as is, straight out of the box ( as, I suspect most do) or, (b) not to buy at all!  I would suggest that most customers are satisfied that their model "looks good" enough as it is without fussing about over individual details.?:whistle:😉

 Now, I have actually built Trumpeter Mig-23 MF & MiG -27  kits. found them to be  nicely detailed and engineered kits ( as with most  Trumpeter kit I've built)  I enjoyed building them. They certainly look the part and, I'm happy with them.  Describing them as "awful"/"fatally flawed"/ "unbuildable " (to use current trendy descriptions)  is, in my humble opinion anyway, a little exaggerated.  It is of course all very subjective and, definitely in the eye of the beholder.

 

I am of course well aware that such a laissez faire attitude does not sit well with some but, what the hell. Some of us just like to bash away regardless. It's how we enjoy the hobby.

 

Allan (sits back to await the righteous wrath of the purists!:lol:

Edited by Albeback52

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22 hours ago, Muzz said:

In the interest of a balanced view, the Trumpeter Mig-23 MF kit is right up there as one of my favourite builds, I think it’s a cracking kit and once built it looks like a Mig-23! Same goes for their Mig-27/23BN, describing them as awful seems a bit on the extreme side!

I have to agree with you on this.  Doubtless both of us will now be subject to ARC like excoriation for daring to speak such heresy! Of course, I respect the choice of those who prefer to strive for a replica that's as accurate as possible. However, not everybody feels that way (well, at least 2 of us don't!)

 

:lol:

 

Allan

Edited by Albeback52

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For those wondering what the fuss is about:

 

16195398_1228117240618142_30334810521017

 

(Photo from Cold War Studio)

 

The Trumpeter kit is on the bottom; the CWS correction above.

 

Draw your own conclusions, but having built a collection of 1/48 jet MiGs that is only missing the MiG-9 (waiting for Mars Models) and MiG-27, I'll be waiting for something that looks more like the real thing.

 

Jon

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1 hour ago, Albeback52 said:

Doubtless both of us will now be subject to ARC like excoriation for daring to speak such heresy! Of course, I respect the choice of those who prefer to strive for a replica that's as accurate as possible.

If I'm not mistaken the discussions on this very forum about the 1/48 Trumpeter Whirlwind, Hornet/Sea Hornet and Defiant were quite colourful.

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10 minutes ago, Laurent said:

If I'm not mistaken the discussions on this very forum about the 1/48 Trumpeter Whirlwind, Hornet/Sea Hornet and Defiant were quite colourful.

And I enjoyed them all Laurent!! It would be a boring world if we all agreed on everything! I actually get a lot of amusement out of seeing so many people getting worked up! I cannot afford to get worked up about anything! I have high blood pressure which, probably accounts for my relaxed attitude!! I have real issues to worry about!!😉:lol:

 

Allan

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3 hours ago, Jon Bryon said:

For those wondering what the fuss is about:

 

16195398_1228117240618142_30334810521017

 

(Photo from Cold War Studio)

 

The Trumpeter kit is on the bottom; the CWS correction above.

 

Draw your own conclusions, but having built a collection of 1/48 jet MiGs that is only missing the MiG-9 (waiting for Mars Models) and MiG-27, I'll be waiting for something that looks more like the real thing.

 

Jon

Wow, the kit may have really great fit and details, but the shape looks indeed quite awful to me, so awful it's amazing🤩 

 

I totally understand that for some of us it's better to have nothing and wait, no matter how long, but no problem of course if others love it.

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The Cold War Studio pic. certainly shows how wrong the Trumpeter kit is, but I'd have to say that while their resin replacement looks accurate it also looks pretty 'rough and ready' to me. Making it match the rest of the kit's surface detail would definitely be well beyond my abilities though I'm sure many here could do so. It's a real pity that Eduard didn't see fit to mould a new nose.....

 

As for the Trumpeter MiG 23, I'd have to admit to being in the 'close enough for me' category!

Edited by hopkp

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8 hours ago, Albeback52 said:

They ("they're" Eduard Flogger kits) certainly look the part and, I'm happy with them.  Describing them as "awful"/"fatally flawed"/ "unbuildable " (to use current trendy descriptions)  is, in my humble opinion anyway, a little exaggerated.  It is of course all very subjective and, definitely in the eye of the beholder.

Allan, you know that I haven't got a thing against Trumpeter; ever since the ESCI kit, I always wanted to build a good replica of the MiG-23ML. When I learnt about the future release of the Trumpy 1/48 Flogger kits my computer froze while downloading piccies of it. First thing I saw was the nose :doh: thought I was looking at an F-4J nose! Then I saw everything else...

The Trumpy kits certainly don't look the part, as it doesn't look the part their 1/48 Su-24M kit for that matter. 

5 hours ago, Laurent said:

If I'm not mistaken the discussions on this very forum about the 1/48 Trumpeter Whirlwind, Hornet/Sea Hornet and Defiant were quite colourful.

:analintruder: Monsieur Laurent!

6 hours ago, Jon Bryon said:

For those wondering what the fuss is about:

 

16195398_1228117240618142_30334810521017

That's what I was talking about; they're like two different aircraft! Look at the nose in the Trumpy kit. It looks like my sheila's first attempt at gnocchi :lol: In the case of the BN, Trumpy ought to have warned modellers on the box that the kit was a pure fictional What-If proposal. Can't release a kit like that.

Yeh, they can't...

Cheers,

 

Unc2

Edited by Uncle Uncool
Trumpy Flogger kits, not Eduard...

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1 hour ago, hopkp said:

The Cold War Studio pic. certainly shows how wrong the Trumpeter kit is, but I'd have to say that while their resin replacement looks accurate it also looks pretty 'rough and ready' to me. Making it match the rest of the kit's surface detail would definitely be well beyond my abilities though I'm sure many here could do so. It's a real pity that Eduard didn't see fit to mould a new nose.....

Each company is different with different ressources. Eduard (and other "big" companies) uses CAD and 3D printing to produce their masters, CWS is more a one-man-business who scratchbuilds his masters.

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"CWS is more a one-man-business who scratchbuilds his masters. "

 

And that's why I like him...old school modeller.  😜 I

 

But , one question. Who has been the first to introduce CAD in the Scale model Industry .... and when ?  I think 3D printing is younger, or am I totally off ?

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1 hour ago, madcop said:

But , one question. Who has been the first to introduce CAD in the Scale model Industry .... and when ?

My guess is Tamiya. According to Shunkaku Tamiya's book "Master Modeler: Creating the Tamiya Style", Tamiya started using CAD & CAM in 1984.

Edited by Laurent

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On ‎9‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 11:53 AM, Laurent said:

CWS is more a one-man-business who scratchbuilds his masters.

Uh-huh... and that one-man Stenka is such a top-bloke.

Yeh, he is.

Cheers,

 

Unc2 

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I've always liked the look of the MiG-27 and therefore would very much like a model of the machine. I'm not, however, willing to give Trumpeter good money for a bad replica as it just encourages this sort of tawdry nonesense. Do it right or not at all. I also agree with Uncle Uncool when he wrote...

On 9/10/2019 at 10:44 PM, Uncle Uncool said:

Why is it that I feel like the plastic kit manufacturing industry is going backwards with each passing year, when it's supposed that making kits should be a lot more easy as it was before? New released kits are still requiring loads of resin aftermarket to look good.

If, on the other hand, an example of the kit ever comes my way dirt cheap then I'd happily spend money on the CWS correction set to encourage them to keep going but the kit as it stands does not look to be worth the £30+ asking price I've seen.

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On 9/11/2019 at 8:54 AM, Albeback52 said:

With all due respect, they don't actually require a single penny to be spent on aftermarket resin frippery to "look good"! That is the modellers choice. They could equally choose to (a)  build as is, straight out of the box ( as, I suspect most do) or, (b) not to buy at all!  I would suggest that most customers are satisfied that their model "looks good" enough as it is without fussing about over individual details.?:whistle:😉

 Now, I have actually built Trumpeter Mig-23 MF & MiG -27  kits. found them to be  nicely detailed and engineered kits ( as with most  Trumpeter kit I've built)  I enjoyed building them. They certainly look the part and, I'm happy with them.  Describing them as "awful"/"fatally flawed"/ "unbuildable " (to use current trendy descriptions)  is, in my humble opinion anyway, a little exaggerated.  It is of course all very subjective and, definitely in the eye of the beholder.

 

I am of course well aware that such a laissez faire attitude does not sit well with some but, what the hell. Some of us just like to bash away regardless. It's how we enjoy the hobby.

 

Allan (sits back to await the righteous wrath of the purists!:lol:

Allan,

 

HEAR HEAR !

 

I've even read on forums that some consider the Tamiya 1:48 F-14A/D Tomcat and 1:32 DH Mosquito to be 'unbuildable'......now THAT is ridiculous. For me, if a kit is wildly out of shape (such as the Trumpeter MiG-27 or the brand new AFV Club Lockheed U-2A) I will leave it alone but for those in the 'looks pretty close' category I'm fine with that. I will readily admit to being an Aftermarket addict but if I'm brutally honest, a lot of it is additional window dressing and not absolutely necessary to reproduce a pretty good replica - I almost certainly buy more than I really need. It's a bit like the HUGE Market in weathering products - a market that has taken on a life of its own, which is also quite ludicrous.

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Well, in "they're" case of the MiG-27, I'm afraid there's little you could do without a resin aftermarket because, unless you're a modeller in the skills of Yufei Mao, there's no way you could build it to make it look like the real thing. When I think of having to buy resin aftermarkets I just think about those needed to fix "they're" awful shape issues in a kit; i.e, the Trumpy Su-24M (I still remember this time when I bought the Lindberg 1/48 MiG-25 kit and came back home in a reverie. After inspecting the kit I hurled it back in the hobby shop by kicking the box on "them" streets, and the vendor said: "Hook, line and sinker" :analintruder:).

There are kits that real need the correction sets (the ESCI kits did), but what puts me off the most is these new-tool kits which look like another different aircraft.

Yeh, it does...

Cheers,

 

Unc2

 

PS: I mean, it's quite different than having to by a resin aftermarket to replace the pilot because his eyes don't look Asian enough, y'know... :rolleyes:

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Yeah, Trumpy's MiG-23 interceptor series looks acceptable to me, apart from the upper intake curve for which there are some aftermarket sets (though I wish they included the intake ramp piece as well).

 

The attack series on the other hand.. That messed up nose and canopy are much worse than on their Su-24M, so too rough or not, the CWS kit will have to do (the one for MiG-27M/D should be out next week, finally).

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About - ref. 11132 - MiG-23BN "Flogger-H"

Source: https://www.eduard.com/out/media/distributors/leaflet/leaflet2019-11en.pdf

 

Quote

The October releases are going to be dispatched late this week due the delay of the 11132 MiG-23BN (1/48th scale Limited Edition item). The supply of the plastic is delayed, the delivery is expected just on Wednesday, September 17th, and necessary packing has to be done day latter. Note 2000 pcs of the 11132 will be released and it is expected no re-stock won´t be possible, therefore I recommend you to check your order figure to be sure you´ll get enough amount.

 

V.P.

Edited by Homebee

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