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North American FJ-2 Fury


Sabrejet

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3 hours ago, Gene K said:

Is there a significant error?

 

Gene K

Gene,

 

It's not the end of the world; kit parts show the FJ-3 type:

 

002 (6)

 

And here on an FJ-3M:

 

FJ-3M

 

Recess splays out at the rear on the FJ-2:

 

FJ-2

 

Shouldn't be difficult to cut out the errant portions.

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Prompted by a query from @jpk on the subject of "what's behind the seat?", here are a few bits. First off the canopy area: KH doesn't include the AN/ARN-6 radio compass loop antenna and it's a prominent feature; note that it's only fitted to the FJ-2 (the FJ-3 has a u-shaped rod antenna instead) and that it is attached to the armour plate aft of the seat. Therefore when the canopy is opened it doesn't move - that's quite different to the case when it's fitted to F-86A/D/E/F/H etc.

 

canopy (1)

 

Item 2 below:

 

canopy (2)

 

The canopy itself is quite plain:

 

canopy (4)

 

But has the retraction screwjack mounted underneath: because the canopy raises as it moves rearwards, a lot of the items mounted on top of the canopy shelf (Item C92 in the kit) on the F-86 is mounted beneath on the FJ-2:

 

canopy (3)

 

Main part mounted on the canopy shelf is the cabin air pressure regulator: Item 8 below (item C44 in the kit):

 

canopy (5)

 

If you pose the canopy open, you will have to add some detail that's not in the kit. The decking aft of the seat is part of item B20 in the kit, which looks like this:

 

deck (2)

 

And KH's instructions show no detail to be added:

 

deck (1)

 

On the real FJ-2 this area is actually concave, with three distinct faces to it; again because the canopy raises as it moves aft, along with the lowered area of the concave deck this allows two prominent relay panels to be fitted into the apertures highlighted in red:

 

deck (6)

 

And this is how they look in reality, along with the canopy actuator in the central valley of the deck:

 

deck (3)

 

deck (4)

 

The relay panels are Items 7 and 9 below:

 

deck (5)

 

And some further detail:

 

deck (8)

 

deck (9)

 

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Thanks SJ. That is very helpful. Do you have anything more specific on the radio compass and the configuration on the mount? Also the armor plate which is also missing? Thanks. 

 

Addendum SJ; I have both the Grand Phoenix and the Hobby Boss -4 Fury. The GP kit, it has a resin cockpit. From what I can tell the -3 and -4 had the same, or almost the same ejection seat, as well as cockpit for the most part. The resin seat is far more detailed than the KH kit parts so I thought I might try it in the KH tub but it is too narrow. I also tried the Hobby Boss seat which is also nice but it was too small as well. The GP seat and cockpit has the seat guide rails which are apparent in the photos you posted. I'm going to get some Evergreen U channel to use for the rails. If you have a diagram that shows the armor plate shape and the radio compass mount that would be great. 

Edited by jpk
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  • 4 weeks later...

Some additional stuff. I've been in conversation with Jeffrey K over at Hypersonic Models and he seems interested in creating rib-less control surfaces for the Kitty Hawk FJ-2 Fury. Specifically the rudder and horizonal stabs. He is also taking a look at possibly making a detail/correction set for the area behind the cockpit for the Fury as well. As pointed out by Sabrejet, that area is pretty much blank on the kit while in reality is has a lot going on in there. These factory diagrams are helpful for him to assess the feasibility of doing that. I would guess the set could be used with the forthcoming FJ-3 Fury from Kitty Hawk as well. If anyone has any additional photos or diagrams of that area it would be helpful to Jeffrey. You can post them here or contact him directly at Hypersonic. Thanks. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/29/2019 at 5:31 AM, jpk said:

Thanks SJ. That is very helpful. Do you have anything more specific on the radio compass and the configuration on the mount? Also the armor plate which is also missing? Thanks. 

 

Addendum SJ; I have both the Grand Phoenix and the Hobby Boss -4 Fury. The GP kit, it has a resin cockpit. From what I can tell the -3 and -4 had the same, or almost the same ejection seat, as well as cockpit for the most part. The resin seat is far more detailed than the KH kit parts so I thought I might try it in the KH tub but it is too narrow. I also tried the Hobby Boss seat which is also nice but it was too small as well. The GP seat and cockpit has the seat guide rails which are apparent in the photos you posted. I'm going to get some Evergreen U channel to use for the rails. If you have a diagram that shows the armor plate shape and the radio compass mount that would be great. 


I think the Kitty Hawk seat is over-scale and the cockpit tub was designed around it.  That’s why the other seats are too narrow.  I plan on using the GP seats, and maybe jacking them up slightly with sheet styrene.  
 

Interestingly, I found the cockpit on the Kitty Hawk Banshee to be under-scale and ended up rebuilding it to a more realistic size.

corey

Edited by Corey in Colorado
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20 hours ago, Corey in Colorado said:


I think the Kitty Hawk seat is over-scale and the cockpit tub was designed around it.  That’s why the other seats are too narrow.  I plan on using the GP seats, and maybe jacking them up slightly with sheet styrene.  
 

Interestingly, I found the cockpit on the Kitty Hawk Banshee to be under-scale and ended up rebuilding it to a more realistic size.

corey

I had the Collect Aire FJ-3 Fury, actually three, and I believe the KH Fury benefited from it. I have it on good authority they, KH, imported several of the more accurate CA kits to use as design mules and one of those kits was the CA, -3 Fury. The seat in the KH kit looks very similar dimensionally to what I remember the CA Fury's seat was like so it may very well be over sized. Now looking at mine in the fuselage it does appear to be a little bigger than it should be. It looks like it sits a little too proud above the cockpit sill. The two seats, HB and GP, seem too narrow for the cockpit in the KH kit though if you thought about using them. I wonder if the entire HB cockpit might fit in the KH fuselage. I'll take a look at that as I have a spare HB FJ-4 that I had probably damaged beyond retrieval.

 

Incidentally, if Sabrejet happens to read this thread, I'd like to ask him if in his archives, he has any photos of Glossy Sea Blue FJ-2's.  

 

Comparing now the three seats. while the KH one does seem a bit too large the other two look too small even in the -4 fuselage and cockpit. Perhaps the truth is somewhere between.

 

Sometimes I can't leave well enough alone. I've decided to use the Grand Phoenix seat however I am also going to remove the launch rails from the cockpit and use them in the KH cockpit. I'm hoping that will fill the cockpit up a bit.  

Edited by jpk
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I forgot that I had the Collect Aire kit (thanks for reminding me!) so I waded (almost literally) into the stash to find it.  I lined up all my potential Fury ejection seats: KH, GP, CA and a seat from Pavla (which is labeled for Banshee and FJ-4 but I think is mostly suitable for the Banshee.). The Kitty Hawk seat is quite a bit larger than all the other seats.  The rest of the other seats are similar in size.  I think the GP seat is the best choice in my collection.

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That is what I am going to do. Like you I will probably give it a little boost with some sheet. If you examine closely the GP fuselage as well as the HB one are just a little slimmer than the KH kit's. Since you still have your CA Fury I'd like to hear your comparison of it to the KH -2. If I recall correctly the CA kit was a little chubby compared to the other -4 kits. As I'm sure you are aware the 3's and 4's both used the same engine and the fuselages were essentially the same except for the spine and taller fin. 

 

I believe the GP resin was designed by AIRES resin and maybe the set is still available. Good source for another seat.  

Edited by jpk
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9 hours ago, jpk said:

That is what I am going to do. Like you I will probably give it a little boost with some sheet. If you examine closely the GP fuselage as well as the HB one are just a little slimmer than the KH kit's. Since you still have your CA Fury I'd like to hear your comparison of it to the KH -2. If I recall correctly the CA kit was a little chubby compared to the other -4 kits. As I'm sure you are aware the 3's and 4's both used the same engine and the fuselages were essentially the same except for the spine and taller fin. 

 

I believe the GP resin was designed by AIRES resin and maybe the set is still available. Good source for another seat.  


I just compared my KH -2 fuselage to the CA -3 and they match fairly close.  Not sure the KH kit is based on the CA kit, but the size and shape of the fuselage at least are close.

 

i just took a look at Hannants and Sprue Bro’s, they both carry an Aires cockpit for the Hobby Boss -4B. I bet the seat is similar to the one in the GP kit.

Edited by Corey in Colorado
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As for whether or not the KH is kit based from the CA Fury, you can take it to the bank. They did. That is not the only one. They also copied the CA F-84 Starfire. They may have also used the Cougar. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I’ve been making slow but steady progress on my Kitty Hawk FJ-2.  I have a question regarding the tailhook doors that perhaps @Sabrejet and/or  @Tailspin Turtle might be able to answer.  Were these doors removed from some Furys?  I’ve found a number of photos in the Ginter FJ-3 book that seem to show at least some of the doors removed.  Especially on aircraft deployed on carriers.  Was this only applicable to FJ-3’s?  
 

In classic Kitty Hawk style, the tailhook doors are designed to be modeled open.  The doors are smaller than the hook well and just “float” in space if one wants to model them closed.  Leaving them off would be an easy alternative to either closing the doors or dropping the tailhook.  

 

When parked, how often was the tailhook dropped?  It seems like sometimes the hook was dropped, but most of the time the hook was up when parked.  Any idea behind the procedures on hook position when parked?

 

thanks for any insight,

Corey

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13 hours ago, Corey in Colorado said:

I’ve been making slow but steady progress on my Kitty Hawk FJ-2.  I have a question regarding the tailhook doors that perhaps @Sabrejet and/or  @Tailspin Turtle might be able to answer.  Were these doors removed from some Furys?  I’ve found a number of photos in the Ginter FJ-3 book that seem to show at least some of the doors removed.  Especially on aircraft deployed on carriers.  Was this only applicable to FJ-3’s?  
 

In classic Kitty Hawk style, the tailhook doors are designed to be modeled open.  The doors are smaller than the hook well and just “float” in space if one wants to model them closed.  Leaving them off would be an easy alternative to either closing the doors or dropping the tailhook.  

 

When parked, how often was the tailhook dropped?  It seems like sometimes the hook was dropped, but most of the time the hook was up when parked.  Any idea behind the procedures on hook position when parked?

 

thanks for any insight,

Corey

Apparently the rigging of the doors was finicky and/or the doors didn't reduce drag all that much. Moreover, if there was a problem with a door I'm sure it would not be a requirement for flight if that airplane was needed. However, I don't know that there was a change notice for either FJ-2s or FJ-3s that required their removal so their presence or absence on a specific airplane would probably have to be established by photographs. Sabrejet is the go-to guy for this, however.

 

Generally the hook was only dropped when an aircraft was parked for static display to avoid any risk that it would be inadvertently released and injure someone (there was an uplock so they didn't droop on their own like some flaps or landing gear doors). It also provided a talking point that emphasized a carrier-basing requirement.

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There's no record of an official Service Change for deletion of the doors, but it's possible that if the doors were not considered flight-critical (as @Tailspin Turtle mentions above), they might have been removed with local approval. However I can find no photographic evidence of it on FJ-2s.

 

Regarding tail surfaces, I measured the span of the horizontal tail and can confirm that KH got that right too. I think there may be a resin set of AM being issued for cockpit, seat, radio compass etc but the set referenced by @Jon Kunac-Tabinor above looks good and will come in handy for sure.

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57 minutes ago, ejboyd5 said:

It would be nice to see some markings for those who like the GSB aircraft.

Don't hold your breath but a full set of stencils for NMF and GSB FJ-2s would be a start, as would a nice sheet of VMF and Reserve aircraft, with correct colours etc. 

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Kursad from Caracal is working on a Fury decal project right now.  Whether it will be dedicated FJ-2 and FJ-3 sheets, or a combination -2/-3 sheet remains to be seen. Here is the thread over at ARC: http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/310660-cd48171-148-fj-2-fury/

 

@Tailspin Turtle and @Sabrejet, thank you for the replies regarding the tailhook doors.

 

@Jon Kunac-Tabinor I’ve placed an order for several of the Hypersonic Fury tail feather sets.   I’m pretty excited to use them on my model.

 

I’m disappointed how the nose gear is going together on my Fury.  It’s very fiddly and doesn’t appear to be very strong.  The attachment to the nose gear well doesn’t fit very well either and also requires the nose gear to be installed when the fuselage halves are joined.   I’m wondering if anyone else who is building this kit has found an alternative installation for the nose gear.  It also appears that the nose gear oleo is fully compressed, so I wonder if that’s going to affect the stance.  I’m currently thinking of either rebuilding the nose gear or using an alternative nose gear from another kit.

 

For the weird cockpit color in the Fury, I’ve  tried using AK Russian Cockpit Turquoise RC 206 and then lightening it.  I’ll post some pictures when I’m done with the cockpit.

 

corey

 

 

Edited by Corey in Colorado
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A few comments on the above. Jeffrey at Hypersonic is in addition to the control surfaces, is doing a seat and cockpit with the corrected turtleback area behind the seat. I sent Jeffrey some photos that were graciously provided by a gent and crew at the USS Hornet Museum of the area behind the seat on their FJ-2. He may be going to do a corrected nose gear strut but I believe he is still just contemplating that. 

 

I cut my nose gear strut where the oleo should be and inserted about a 1/8" length of brass tube with a trimmed paper clip rod inserted within. I then drilled out the upper and lower arts of the strut and CA'ed the new oleo in. I then completed the rest of the strut. One thing that I will do differently will be the mount of the coiled spring, (shimmy damper, thanks Tommy), that mounts to the lower strut. I will shave the mounts to allow a better fit of the spring/strut point of attachment. The nose gear is a bit fiddly but I think with some careful building KH pretty much got everything in the nose gear structure correct except for the oleo. I'd like to post a photo but I can't upload from my computer.

Edited by jpk
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Everything I know about the nose gear so far: https://tailhooktopics.blogspot.com/2017/10/fj-23-nose-landing-gear.html

 

With respect to the strength of the nose gear, remember that like most jets, it’s a tail sitter. If you are careful about the amount of weight added to the nose, there won’t be much of a load on the nose gear. Just remember, “land” it on the main gear and gently lower the nose.

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Try this: official NAA FJ-2 drawing, so will be accurate. I've put fuselage stations in so that it can be scaled. It's also shown with fuselage centre line horizontal, so the forward rake of the leg can be shown correctly:

 

1ab

 

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6 hours ago, Sabrejet said:

Try this: official NAA FJ-2 drawing, so will be accurate. I've put fuselage stations in so that it can be scaled. It's also shown with fuselage centre line horizontal, so the forward rake of the leg can be shown correctly:

 

1ab

 

Excellent, thanks - it shows that an upper portion of forward facing nose gear door is up in the wheel well when the gear is extended for one thing. 

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