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On 29/07/2018 at 23:18, roma847 said:

Somehow I'm sorry for you. smiley_worship.gif

omgsign.gif For so much botch Dragon should actually be punished ... up043952.gif

...and sadly several of the resin parts aren't very helpful either... That's one part of the reason the project is resting at the moment; I will have to scratch build some of the sections...

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Catching up as I’ve got all the same resin and all the same issues. I decided to start at the bottom and work up. I can’t use the resin thrust section as it’s 3mm too small in diameter somnothing fits. Plus the 4 engine fairings are a Scale foot to wide and a scale foot too shallow, whilst less so than the Dragon plastic still off. So I’m designing a replacement fairing using the Weeks drawings and will create using my cutter so they are easy to replicate. Already filled in the fairings on the Dragon thrust section with an eye to remove them and add all the details. 

 

Fun modeling, I must say. 

 

Tim

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21 minutes ago, Greenshirt said:

Catching up as I’ve got all the same resin and all the same issues. I decided to start at the bottom and work up. I can’t use the resin thrust section as it’s 3mm too small in diameter somnothing fits. Plus the 4 engine fairings are a Scale foot to wide and a scale foot too shallow, whilst less so than the Dragon plastic still off. So I’m designing a replacement fairing using the Weeks drawings and will create using my cutter so they are easy to replicate. Already filled in the fairings on the Dragon thrust section with an eye to remove them and add all the details. 

 

Fun modeling, I must say. 

 

Tim

I have exactly the same problems with the resin for the stage I thrust section, and also they are very warped. My plan has been to create new fairings in 3D CAD and print four of them, and scratch the the main section. These issues has given a good hit to my work inspiration...

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1 hour ago, Bengalensis said:

I have exactly the same problems with the resin for the stage I thrust section, and also they are very warped. My plan has been to create new fairings in 3D CAD and print four of them, and scratch the the main section. These issues has given a good hit to my work inspiration...

 

I’m trying to make them in 2D, then assemble them similar to the real thing. 

 

This is actually got me interested as it’s a challenge and it’s possibly resolved w new skills on the PC. I just downloaded FreeCAD and was going to try a 3D render and then have it printed x4 but I want to try the much cheaper 2D option first. I’ve got a WIP thread over on 72nd site. https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/72nd_aircraft/dragon-saturn-v-apollo-11-t10192.html

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On 15/08/2018 at 21:12, Greenshirt said:

 

I’m trying to make them in 2D, then assemble them similar to the real thing. 

 

This is actually got me interested as it’s a challenge and it’s possibly resolved w new skills on the PC. I just downloaded FreeCAD and was going to try a 3D render and then have it printed x4 but I want to try the much cheaper 2D option first. I’ve got a WIP thread over on 72nd site. https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/72nd_aircraft/dragon-saturn-v-apollo-11-t10192.html

I will check your WIP for sure.

 

Making the fairings as thin sheets and wrapping them round might be an idea. I will probably not make much progress until winter is upon us once again over here, but then I will have to find a solution. And then there are more similar problems higher up...

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  • 1 month later...
  • 11 months later...

No, this project is by no means dead, just very slow at times... I've been a bit put off by the poor quality of some resin parts, and as I was going to work on the S-IC aft skirt I was stuck again. The parts have gone back and forth on the bench, and the idea has grown on me that I would have to scratch the whole thing, including the fairings. Then I noted there are now what looks like very nice fairings available as 3D-prints from Shapeways. Not cheap, ok, but I have now given up and will bite that bullet. Next was to find a suitable plastic pipe to start with...

 

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I got a piece of d140 PVC-pipe during a visit to my main customer. I figured I would cut a piece of it to length and then slice a thin section from it to make it Ø139 mm when glued together. When I finally got cutting I soon had this piece, just to discover I had no PVC-glue at home and would have to wait a few days...

 

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So I turned my attention to the bottom thrust structure and the batted F1-engines from LVM Studios I planned to use. They were quite quickly cleaned up and had some air bubbles filled.

 

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With the engines glued together I looked at my options for the bottom thrust structure.

 

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While the Dragon kit part is not all correct I decided it would do as a base to work on. With some modification and detailing it should pass. I cut it down and adjusted the engines to fit. Later on I will scratch the gimbal links and the struts that are behind the fairings.

 

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The SI-C stage parts stacked together.

 

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There will be lot more work before the Dragon part and the PVC-pipe is joined correctly. It's a bit sad that the engines will have to be the batted ones, as the correct "in flight" configuration, a lot of nice possible engine detail disappear, but that's how it is.

 

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Luckily I will hopefully one day tackle this beast in 1/20 scale with parts and details to make up for anything I'm missing here, but it will have to wait until this project is done... 😎

 

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Today I could glue the PVC-pipe, as I was again working at my customer, where they have the right stuff available. This will settle for a while, and then I will make a cross section inside to ensure its circular shape comes back, sand it smooth and fit the Dragon bottom part, before the detailing work starts...

 

SV43.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...

Great work Jörgen !!

 

it takes ages, i know.... but hang in there, the end product will be stunning !! i’m working on the fwd skirt now....adding all the stringers...., making the access door and umbilical panel, the LOX vents , ODOP antennas etc etc.....

 

i first want to finnish the S-IC before i start working on the rest.....

 

awaiting your updates....😉

 

cheers

tom

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@Tomas Bark Thanks! Yes, it's no quick work... But every finished section ready for primer is very rewarding.

 

Working on the aft skirts hold down posts right now. Not sure if I will continue scratching them directly, or make a CAD-designed insert and 3D-print for fitting in easier larger cut-outs.

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I've just caught-up with this, and have been rather impressed with your attention to detail and the work you've done.  I've got the same task ahead of me one day with the smaller 1:96 Revell offering, which has (so I'm told) a whole heap of different problems!  You'd think they'd be able to get the most well-known rocket in the world right somehow, wouldn't you? :lol:

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@Tomas Bark Good work. Start a thread with your build? We can't have too many Saturn V builds really 😎

 

@Mike @Corsairfoxfouruncle Indeed. I can forgive and understand several problems in the older offerings by Revell, Airfix and the likes, they were after all originally released almost before the real thing happened, and they are nice builds reflecting their time. But this large scale effort by Dragon, released some 35 years later with all info and drawings available... No, really not OK.

 

The PVC-material in the type of pipe I used as the base here is quite hard, it is after all made for transporting aggressive chemicals under pressure, and it quickly turned out to be too hard and too thick to cut the thin tapered shaped slits for the hold down posts with the precision I wanted. Let alone repeating the process four times over. Impossible, no, but not fun enough to spend time on.

 

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Cutting four larger rectangular holes would not be much of a problem though, so I drew up an insert to be fitted and just fill and smooth the seams afterwards.

 

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While I was at it in the cad I made a simple representation of the actuators used to control the engines. Only eight are actually needed as the centre engine only has simple rods visible. No, they are not perfectly accurate, but they aren't terribly visible anyway and will do the job for me.

 

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And I also made the tripods that the actuators are connected to. These are hardly visible at all behind the fairings, so again a very simple representation will do.

 

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So it's a bit of waiting for the 3D-printed parts to arrive now before I can continue at the bottom. But there's a whole lot of clean-up, filling and correction work needed on some resin parts higher up in the mean time...

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The orientation of all the S-IC stage segments has now been marked in relation to each other to glue them all correctly when time comes. With that done the LOX-dome could be positioned and glued.

 

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Here's what it looks like with the forward skirt in place. This will not be glued until I have painted the dome and all internals.

 

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So up to the S-II forward skirt; another resin part in need of extensive cleaning up and some bubble filling and repairs. I spent a good five-six hours on the outside to get it ready for a first coat of primer.

 

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The inside was quicker, maybe half an hour.

 

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Time then to mark the final orientation of the S-IC/S-II interstage and S-II segments and its top tank dome.

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I thought my ordeal with S-II forward skirt was done yesterday. Not so. Again this was a resin part that proved to be too much shrunken in the molding process when I tried its final fitting. There was no other option but to cut it up and try to lengthen its circumference. I found a place where it looked a bit tight between stringers and two cuts could be reasonably hidden.

 

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I had a second S-IC LOX-dome in resin, so I used that as a base to create the dome for the S-II, removing details and adding others. It shouldn't be quite so rounded, but it will do with forward skirt in place.

 

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Here is the final look with the forward skirt fitted. Vent pipes will be scratched later. Again the skirt will only be glued after painting.

 

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I just had to stack the parts up again...

 

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That stacking led to some serious measuring and test fitting of the resin part for the conical S-II/S-IVB interstage. I knew it was problematic with surface damage and air bubbles requiring a lot of work, but it now also turned out to be shrunken and skewed. It would be a major and compromised work to save it. But to make something of the Dragon part is also a major undertaking. Its conical height is OK as are the diameters. To cut off the cylindrical section, supposed to represent the S-II forward skirt(!), is easy enough. But it has 108 stringers instead of 144 which mean removing and starting all over again...

 

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Or maybe not starting all over again... I did some calculation of 108 vs. 144 and realized I could leave every third stringer in place, remove the two between and replace them with three new ones. Much easier to keep everything straight and evenly distanced that way. The cylindrical part was quickly cut off and the bottom sanded flat.

 

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Removal of stringers started. Slow going, but with some patience it should work. I would easily spend the same time on the problematic resin part and this will probably be better in the end. Need to order more Evergreen strips.

 

SV61.jpg

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A few hours of cleaning later all offending stringers were gone.

 

SV62.jpg

 

I then built up a ring at the bottom to get a good location against the S-II forward skirt.

 

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108 new stringers to add. Just dig into it...

 

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It takes time, but it's a lot easier when there's something to line them up against. Starting with the one in the middle centered, then adding the ones on each side centered. Then repeat. Then repeat again, and again...

 

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After another couple hours I could sand it all smooth and create the access door, cut the vent holes and ad the 3D-printed retro rocket covers. I need to build some simple inner structure as well, but I have to wait for more 0,75x0,75 strips to arrive first. I should probably build some representation of the retro rockets on the inside as well.

 

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I'm much happier with this.

 

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To get a break and make something else for a while I started to add a bit of details. Here are the four S-IC/S-II insterstage ullage rockets added. These are also 3D-printed parts. It's a lot of counting stringers back and forth to position details like this...

 

SV69.jpg

 

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Today has seen work on the bottom insulation pattern and details on the S-II exterior. I first glued a band of 0,25 mm sheet styrene, then planned, measured and cut the patches. Another thing completely omitted by Dragon.

 

SV71.jpg

 

After some gluing and sanding it looked quite OK.

 

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And with all the various fairings added it's quickly looking much more interesting. Most parts here are again 3D-printed.

 

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The S-II stage stacked with both interstages.

 

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The pile of unused parts is growing...

 

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It's time to start looking closer to the options of creating the S-IVB stage. The tank segment has already been extended to the correct length. I think the plan is to save the resin rear skirt and of course the resin thrust structure will be used. Not yet sure what to do about the forward skirt and tank dome.

 

SV77.jpg

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The resin aft skirt was cleaned up, got some stringers repaired and problems filled. I will probably have to adjust and possibly add some stringers when it's time to fit all exterior details. I added a new edge for the joint to the interstage and installed a roundel to make it circular enough to join the tank segment, as it was more than a little oval, and later fit the thrust structure.

 

SV78.jpg

 

I also cleaned up and repaired the thrust structure itself.

 

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The resin tank dome is riddled with pin holes and the forward skirt is also skewed and slightly shrunken. It will be easier to work from the Dragon kit dome. We'll see about the skirt.

 

SV80.jpg

 

 The Dragon forward skirt has the correct amount of stringers, surprisingly, but it's a bit short. They provide the same part to be used as aft skirt, which I now had left over. So I cut both down to get a join in the middle. It's worth a try.

 

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With some very careful gluing I had a forward skirt with a smooth joint. Hopefully it will not require much cleaning up. I set it aside to cure over night before attempting anything.

 

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Some filler bits glued to the tank dome before sanding off all oversized surface details.

 

SV83.jpg

 

And here it is with some new details added.

 

SV84.jpg

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Absolutely beautifull...... I must say, i can only hope to get half of the detail on mine.....  already bought 2 packs of evergreen .75 x .75, but it looks like i’m gonna need a few more packs !!!

 

The images are a great help to others also making the Saturn V 

 

I will start my own thread here as well, but it will allways stand in the shadow of yours ! ;)

 

the enormous ammount of work done by you is very much apreciated.......

 

cheers

Tom

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@Tomas Bark Thanks a lot! Gland you like it. If you can find something useful in my work trying to build this beast a bit better than Dragon provided the means for, that's great, just double check things as you go with any references you can find.

 

After a good night of drying the extended forward skirt could be sanded smooth. It took a while but it seems to have worked out pretty well.

 

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I then made some very simplified interior detail.

 

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For once I found a Dragon kit detail part that could be used, albeit it with some added detail; the APS modules (Auxiliary Propulsion System). As these are in a distinctive separate metal color they will only be glued permanently after painting.

 

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I started to add detail parts to the S-IVB and in the middle of it decided to test fit one of the 3D-printed J2 engines I will use on this stage and the S-II. Dragons' offering is quite simplified and the resin parts I have needs a good deal of cleaning and repairs. There's also a bit of finishing work needed on the 3D-parts, but easy work in comparison, and they're better defined.

 

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All detail parts fitted to the S-IVB. Some resin, some 3D-prints and some scratch.

 

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Stacking up parts again, just for the sake of it. Detailing the instrument unit will be a coming project. I will do all the exterior details, but I'm not sure about all the internals as that short ring is very complex and detailed inside. I also have to decide if I will leave a section of the Spacecraft LM Adapter clear to show off the Lunar Module inside, or paint it all white as the real one. That's a much later problem though...

 

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Today some more 3D-printed parts arrived. My own parts for the S-IC thrust structure details, the access door and umbilical plate for the S-IC intertank and the new F1 engine fairings.

 

The fairings here are printed in a less expensive (still not cheap) material that the designer has set as default in his Shapeways shop. At first my plan was to splash out and use the finest and most expensive material that I always use otherwise, which in my memory was about 385 € or something like that a number of months back. Now though they were suddenly raised to 585 €, probably as Shapeways are once again playing around with their pricing strategy, and I would still have to spend time sanding them smooth, so I thought I'd try these for 70 €. They are coarse in the surface though, and will need plenty of work. Still easier than the quite rough and wobbly ones I have in resin. Very well, we'll see...

 

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The inserts for the hold down posts.

 

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The access door and umbilical plate is slightly over sized when test fitted, not only in width but also in height I think. I will carefully measure this and contact the designer to see if he is willing to scale down the CAD-model slightly and make that version available for me.

 

SV98.jpg

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