1/72 Saturn V

[Bengalensis]

No time to get anything done today, except carefully measuring that access door part and arriving at the need for a 91% sized part. The good news is the designer Michael Key was very quick to respond and a 91% sized part is now under printing for me. 👍

[Starfighter]

Wow ! That's really detailed. I built this model when it first came out ( It was a present ) and I invested in a set of David Weeks drawings to add the extra detail, but I didn't go as in depth as you did/ However, I was pretty pleased at how it turned out. I will be watching your build with interest 😉

[philp]

Looks like Dragon is re releasing it this month.

 

Will probably grab one this time but not sure I will go to the extent of fully accurizing it.

 

If I do, will reread this thread.

[Bengalensis]

@Starfighter @philp Thanks guys. I don't think I would recommend anyone to start hacking up the Dragon kit like I'm doing... It's a lot of work and frustration, and it gets quite expensive too. Still there will be compromises in several places also in my model. It's just me who can't control myself...

 

The Dragon kit is probably best enjoyed, and I'm sure it's worthwhile, when built OOB, and probably with a bit om minor corrections and some added details. If the decals I bought are still available they might be interesting to get too. It will look like a big impressive Saturn V without a question. How noticeable some millimeters too short or too longs sections here and there really are can be debated, and if correcting stringer counts or redoing stringers entirely isn't done with a high degree of precision, it will just make it worse.

 

Build and enjoy.

[Caerbannog]

12 hours ago, Starfighter said:

Wow ! That's really detailed. I built this model when it first came out ( It was a present ) and I invested in a set of David Weeks drawings to add the extra detail, but I didn't go as in depth as you did/ However, I was pretty pleased at how it turned out. I will be watching your build with interest 😉

Did you get the David Week drawing from Real Space, or is thee another source? I think there was a CD Rom available once, but I never found this. Drawings seem a bit costy for shippment from the US, which kept me from buying these sets in the first place.

 

Excellent build Jörgen - as I said - when I read about the issues of the kit I chickend out (I was eager to get it when announced...). Impressive modelling

Rene

[Bengalensis]

@Caerbannog Thanks a lot. Well, the Dragon kit is pretty poor if high detail accuracy is what is sought after. Just look at my mess 😎... But with a bit lower expectations it can still be a nice model and build experience. But if my memory is any good you would probably start hacking it up as well 😎...

 

Went back to work on the S-IC aft skirt, cutting slots for the hold down inserts and gluing them in place.

 

 

After a little filler and sanding I had this.

 

 

Then I attached the first stringers. I'm still waiting for the ordered Evergreen strips, so I won't be able to finish this work right now though.

 

[Starfighter]

7 hours ago, Caerbannog said:

Did you get the David Week drawing from Real Space, or is thee another source? I think there was a CD Rom available once, but I never found this. Drawings seem a bit costy for shippment from the US, which kept me from buying these sets in the first place.

 

Excellent build Jörgen - as I said - when I read about the issues of the kit I chickend out (I was eager to get it when announced...). Impressive modelling

Rene

I did buy the drawings from real Space. As you say, they are a tad expensive when you factor in the po

stage, but I just HAD to have them ! They were excellent for the extra details, a lot of which I added to my model. I also used the Space Model Systems decals for the booster and CSM, which are excellent and very reasonably priced.

Edited October 4, 2019 by Starfighter

[Bengalensis]

A new day of material arrivals. First a good batch of 0,75x0,75 strips. Now I can finish the S-IC aft skirt.

 

 

And also the new resized access door part for the S-IC intertank arrived. Now I'm very happy with the size and fit.

 

 

I got to work on this first thing and here it is already installed, also fuel vents and vent holes added.

 

[Pete in Lincs]

I just went back to the start and did a catch up. Hugely impressive precision work. 

It obviously needs truckloads of patience and a good pair of tweezers.

A couple of  questions, in post 37 (I think) you wrote..."the batted F1-engines from LVM Studios I planned to use".

I'm not familiar with the term 'Batted'. Could you please explain?

Also, in what way are these better than the Dragon engines? I need some 1/72nd engines for a Sci fi build and am curious.

Thanks, Pete

[sithman]

Completely amazing work!!

 

it's funny!  I always thought of building a Saturn v because "how hard could it be?...it's just a tube!"  OMG was I ever wrong!!

 

I am folowing this build with great interest and I thank you for posting!

[Bengalensis]

Thanks guys, glad you like the work.

 

@Pete in Lincs The term "batted" or "batting" of the F1 engines refers to the engine's full exterior being covered in thermal insulation, sort of to protect it from itself. We are always used to see the engines naked, that's how they're almost always represented in all Saturn V kits too, but they were never flown that way, they were always covered up.

 

The problem with Dragon's engines is basically two, or three. They completely lack this "batting", and they are also too small; about 2 mm short and 7 mm small in diameter. And as naked engines without the batting they are quite simplified in detail. They might be good enough for your needs though. Apart from very nice but expensive 3D-printed naked F1's in 1/72 scale I only know of fully batted ones in resin from the aftermarket. They sure look much better naked...

 

@sithman Indeed it is surprising how much is going on around what basically looks quite simple. I'm still trying to keep it manageable though, one could probably go on forever.

[Bengalensis]

I had a concentrated session yesterday evening and managed to glue all the remaining stringers on the S-IC aft skirt. After that I was able to do nothing more at all that evening apart from a glass of wine or three...

 

Previously I had also built a collar of sheet polystyrene glued inside the PVC-pipe, adjusted to get a precise and secure fit to the Dragon tank when the aft skirt will be glued to the rest of the structure.

 

 

 

Today I made the umbilical plates, just something looking reasonable after what little info I have found, and also made room for the two system tunnels.

 

 

 

With that done the aft skirt was glued permanently in place. I also decided to agree with those who claim the Dragon system tunnels are too thick. So I had to remove the upper parts already glued, clean those areas up, and then cut all the tunnel parts down in section height. Then I could glue them all back making the best alignment possible.

 

 

 

 

A little test fit of the recently arrived fairings. I hope I can prepare these to be good enough in the end, and fit with my actuators and tripods underneath. The fins are the Dragon parts.

 

 

 

 

And it had to happen once again; stacking up the sections...

 

 

[Pete in Lincs]

It's a big beastie isn't ? And looking very good indeed too.

Thanks for the information about the 'batted engines'. Looks like I need to find a scrap Saturn V somewhere.

Please tell me that Renault 4 in the background isn't going to be the basis for a Moon Rover!

[Tomas Bark]

Absolutely amazing...... I’ll say it again, my build can only be in the shadow of yours.....

 

Tell me : You’re going to detail the system tunnels as well aren’t you ?? You owe it to yourself !!!

 

I found out the sytem tunnels are to big indeed after i installed them, so nothing i can do anymore.... i did install the small strips on the sytem tunnels as can be seen on a lot of images... (still wondering if they are silver(ish), somebody told me they are metal strips.......)

 

Tom

[Bengalensis]

Thanks for the kind words guys, glad you like it so far.

 

@Pete in Lincs I do have five sprues of Dragon F1 engines, but I haven't yet decided if I may do something with them or not. I guess shipping cost from Sweden will be expensive though, it usually is.

 

The Renault 4 in the background is a WIP of the R4 Sinpar 4x4 from Rallye Paris-Dakar 1980. But there is fully 3D-printed kit at Shapeways of the Lunar Rover in 1/24 scale that looks very interesting, although quite expensive...

 

 

@Tomas Bark I'm still dwelling on the system tunnel details and what to do or not. Not sure what is most important either; the lengthwise ribbing or the horizontal sectioning. I thought they were all painted, but I haven't spent much time studying them yet.

[Bengalensis]

Some problem with image uploading, not sure if they are visible...

 

Here are the parts I'm going to use to fit the F1 engines. I cleaned them all up, apart from the fairings, to make a real test fit of everything.

 

 

Here is what it will look like, roughly. As I make the final fitting after painting I will make some adjustments to the locations of the actuators to place the tripods at the correct height, they are little high up here.

 

 

 

And with the fairing in place it looks like everything will work together.

 

 

I wasn't going to bother with S-II thrust structure right now, but for some reason I found myself starting to play with the parts instead of doing what I had planned... I made some rough cleaning of the main resin parts to get a feeling for how they will work with the cleaned Dragon dome I want to place above them.

 

Here are all the parts involved, apart from some various Evergreen rods. There will be a lot of work required to make the resin parts useable, but at least it's a base to work from. The J2 engines are 3D-prints from Shapeways.

 

[xffw45343tg]

Like Sithman, I was a little too quick to think of this as a fairly simple stack of cylinders and cones. Boy, have you proved me wrong. Fab model!

[Pete in Lincs]

All those thousands of parts. Each one made by the lowest bidder. Just to get a man on the moon.

Waddaya know, it worked! A fabulous machine the Saturn V. As is this model.

[Bengalensis]

Thanks a lot guys. Indeed a somewhat scary thought, "...built by the lowest bidder..."

 

As I had started to fiddle with S-II thrust structure I thought I'd get through the worst of it. After lots of work the main resin parts were rectified and some real test fitting could begin. It's far from perfect.

 

 

The main parts end up something like this when fitted in the aft end.

 

 

I started to make a new heat shield from scratch and took the measurements to drill mounting holes for the 3D-printed J2 engines and made some adjustments to the parts to make them fit.

 

 

And a quick check of the total height with the interstage in place to ensure it will all fit on top of the first S-IC stage.

 

 

All the smaller parts also cleaned up. Final adjustments of the pipes must be done when I reach definitive assembly. The heat shield will get some more work done to it. Also trying to determine a reasonably correct placement of the heat shield struts.

 

[Pete in Lincs]

48 minutes ago, Bengalensis said:

It's far from perfect.

Well from where I'm sitting it looks damned close.

[Bengalensis]

So, the S-II heat shield. Something more had to be done. I've never seen one in place on photos of the stages on display, and I have only found a few period photos, none of which is very clear. But I found a drawing of it, also showing the attachment points both on the shield and thrust structure.

 

I marked all the points on the piece I had cut before and drilled them through. I also marked and drilled the holes in the thrust structure.

 

 

Then glued that piece to another sheet, and cut it out again.

 

 

The rings for the collars were fabricated from twin strips of sheet styrene.

 

 

 

The center piece glued in place.

 

 

And quite soon the finished shield itself looked like this.

 

 

That's when things got a bit more complicated. I wanted to build the whole mounting structure fixed to the shield, but not yet fixed to thrust structure. I lightly glued the shield to the cone with temporary fixing plates, aligning it as best I could, and did the first eight rods with their ends going about 2 mm into the cone, only gluing them to the shield.

 

 

Then four more rods glued in place on the shield, and four new temporary fixings to enable the first to be removed, to give more room.

 

I then had to spend a lot of time trying to figure out what the available drawings actually showed. Despite drawings being much of my profession these days, this wasn't easy, and I have seen other builders making this differently. But my version involves eight plus eight more rods from the beams down to the shield.

 

 

And then eight additional diagonal rods fitted. Here is what I had after carefully removing the fixing plates.

 

 

 

Testing with engines, hopefully this will do the job.

 

 

 

 

Much to my surprise it was no problem to lift the whole assembly out of all the locating holes. No glue in the wrong place. It will however not be easy to fit the thing again after painting...

 

[Ken Stenzenko]

I've just found your build. Excellent progress so far! I'm about to start my 1/72 Saturn V Skylab and have been thinking much the same as you with updates etc. What's the texture like on the Shapeways F-1 Engine fairings like? I ordered a set but am thinking about stripping off the stiffeners so I can get a really smooth finish and then replacing them.

[Bengalensis]

3 hours ago, Ken Stenzenko said:

I've just found your build. Excellent progress so far! I'm about to start my 1/72 Saturn V Skylab and have been thinking much the same as you with updates etc. What's the texture like on the Shapeways F-1 Engine fairings like? I ordered a set but am thinking about stripping off the stiffeners so I can get a really smooth finish and then replacing them.

Thanks a lot.

 

The texture on the fairings is problematic and they will need a lot of work to reach the standard I need. I would say it's at least a 50/50 chance that I will let the stringers go and replace them. The small air scoop fairings are already as they come too poorly defined in the default material and must be replaced too. Either I will do them myself or more likely ask Michael to issue them separately in 1/72, it is easy for him to do as he has them in 1/48 and he's been helpful before.

 

Shapeways "White Natural Versatile Plastic" is really not useful for any scale model parts IMO, and with this size of details the more useful "Smooth Fine Detail Plastic" gets ridiculously expensive today with their current pricing policy.

[Ken Stenzenko]

Agree on the Shapeways pricing and their versatile plastic is crap. You could always use one of the fairings you have and fill the back of it with something like plaster or Milliput to make it rigid and then use it as a mold to vacuform over. I have had some luck before with the the versatile plastic by dipping it in very thin super glue and and once dry sanding smooth.

 

[Bengalensis]

I'm going a bit back and forth and wrapping things up as I gather inspiration and can decide what to do. I needed to get some internal detailing done on the S-II/S-IVB interstage. I first made bases for the retro rockets and did cuts for them to fit into, matching up with the fairings.

 

 

Then I drew a pattern to follow and started doing some ribbing from Evergreen strips. I'm just doing some simplified detail to make the inside a bit more interesting when painted. The real thing is much more complex. The top and bottom circular ribs are in.

 

 

The circular ribbing done.

 

 

Then I filled in all the vertical bars and made supports for the retro rockets. Again, this is some basics... Still it took a good few hours.

 

 

Then I added some pieces inside the S-II forward skirt.

 

 

Looking down through the interstage. The S-IVB behind needs more attention...

 

 

So I added some vertical ribbing and basic details to the S-IVB forward skirt. Also here this is very much simplified; in reality the inner structures are very complex but would be very delicate in 1/72, I also need to keep this project in some sort of control to actually finish it...