Supermarine's best? [Now with added Seafire 47... & Seafang!]

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

20 hours ago, gingerbob said:

If you use the "Photobucket fix" patch, you should be able to see the images again.  (I use Firefox, and it works for me.)

 

Edit: Oh, also, since the subject of spinners has already come up, the Trumpeter kit's is (are?) too "pointy".  Compare to your Seafire 47's!

I’ve tried the patch in Chrome & Firefox, with no result in either case.

 

I’d already clocked the pointy spinner, but thanks!

[gingerbob]

Sorry that the patch doesn't work for you.  Someday perhaps I'll migrate the images, but that's not high on my priority list!  However, while cleaning up a folder full of scans that was eating up memory, I found this bit from a Supermarine drawing: (grumble- only my second attempt at posting an image using Imgur.  Doesn't seem to be uploading, so hopefully the link will take you there?)

 

https://imgur.com/4S9SaRL

 

What it attempts to show is that the wing spar carry-through has indeed shifted compared to the Spitfire.  The vertical line marked "Station 5" is where it traditionally was, and you can see how they joggled things with the firewall.

 

If this doesn't work, I'll come back later and try to make it.

 

bob

 

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

One of those days where you spend a lot of time cleaning up seams, doing little bits of filler and generally tidying up... and before you know it 3 hours have gone past.

 

Every review I have read of this Trumpy Seafang kit says that there is a dirty great moulding seam running down the canopy, and mine was no exception.  That's now been polished away and both parts of the canopy dipped, so the cockpit is now shut (I added the gunsight before I glued the windscreen in -place, but forgot to take photo.

 

I also added rails for the canopy to slide back on, which Trumpeter missed out completely for some reason; you can just about see them in both pics, but they will show up nicely after painting etc.  They are certainly pretty visible on the real thing.

 

I've already said that I am planning to use a Barracudacast tail designed for the Airfix Seafire 46/47, so I have been doing quite a lot of sanding to get the rudder to fit nicely (no photo).  The horizontal tail surfaces need rather more work, because the fuselage is clearly a different shape back there - I have glued the Trumpeter parts together (and to be fair to Trumpy, though some of their accuracy ain't that great, the fits of the parts is really excellent) and then cut most of it away leaving just a wedge of root onto which I will add the resin part;

 

Finally, as @gingerbob kindly pointed out, Trumpeter's spinner is not great; it's far too pointy.  Here it is alongside the Mk 46; they ought to be the same...  (and as you can see I had actually already started sanding the tip before I remembered to take a photo, so it was originally even worse!).

 

I've also been doing Walrus-y things, but nothing worth photographing so no update on that thread.

 

More soon

 

Crisp

[giemme]

Amazing surgery going on, Crisp

 

But that Trumpy spinner is way off - looks like you can fix it, though

 

Ciao

[Hamden]

 

Love what your doing with the SeaFang not a type you see or hear of very often.

 

  Roger

 

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

After a period of sanding the tip of the original spinner, I still wasn't satisfied with the shape... but then I thought about the 5-blade airscrew that is included with the Airfix Seafire 46/47 mouldings (I assume it shares sprues with the Spitfire 22 release?).

 

So I dug that out and sawed off the rear portion of it:

 

...a closer view of the two visible in the background above; Trumpeter (partially modified) on right, Airfix on left.

 

The Airfix spinner is slightly too wide at the base to fit perfectly onto its counterpart (see what I did there?), but nothing that cannot be fixed.  the key thing is that it is more rounded throughout its length, whereas the original Trumpy part is too skinny and thus looks slab-sided.  Not a vast change but I think it will improve the overall look.

 

More later

 

Crisp

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

...and now after a bit more fettling, plus construction of the 3 slots for the blade roots.  A distinct improvement on the original, I think:

 

EDIT: just noticed that the forward airscrew is the wrong way round in those photos, but you get the idea!

Edited December 19, 2017 by Ex-FAAWAFU

[Martian]

Good fix on the spinner!

 

Martian

[giemme]

Spinner looks spot on now, great job

 

You exploited the concept of contra-rotating with that airscrew...

 

OK, I'll get me

 

Ciao

[Massimo]

I prefer the Seafire, but you're progressing realy well!!!

I like that spinner!!! 

 

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

Thanks, everyone.

 

Making progress in other areas.  Firstly, the tail, where I have now made new root sections from the Trumpy parts, so that the resin fits the different shape of the 'Fang rear fuselage.  Elevators not glued:

 

Then the undercarriage.  Here is a photo of the real thing (the Attacker at Yeovilton), seen first from directly behind [not head-on, as I initially wrote], then at an angle from in front:

 

[Something very odd going on with the board at present - even posting this took almost 15 minutes.  I will edit and complete this post once it sorts itself out]

[Edit: normal service resumed.  ...as I was saying...]

...and here from an angle:

 

Note two things in particular.  1. the retraction mechanism consists of two straight lines when the undercarriage is locked down; and 2. there is no Mustang-style hook at the bottom of the oleo.

 

Here are two kit oleos (apologies that the iPhone has focused on the cutting mat!): on the right is as provided by Trumpeter, and on the left as modified by me.  

 

My modifications are designed to reduce the lateral displacement of the wheel and lower section of the doors; it looks to me as though on the real thing the bottom section is essentially buried inside the lower door.  The photo below shows the geometry if you build it OOB; note how far to the right the door is (and keep in mind that the base of the upper door - unfitted here - goes outside the lower one.

 

Here is the same thing (opposite leg!) after my modifications.  [Ignore the section of white styrene at the top; that is to replace a section that I removed by mistake!]

I have:

1. Thinned down the section of leg alongside the wheel;

2. Reduced the lug onto which the door fits, so that the door sits more flush with the leg [though I think I could still move this even closer in]; and

3. Done a cut & shunt at the top of the curved section to remove most of the lateral displacement (you cannot remove it all, or the wheel would be pushed too far to the right as we look here).

 

The other thing I mentioned was the retraction mechanism: here OOB Trumpy at the bottom, and post-mod at the top.  (Pretty obvious what I have done!)

 

 

The curious thing is that there are aspects of the Trumpeter moulding that are excellent, but the complete assembly is wrong in some fairly obvious ways.

 

Finally, here is the modified leg with all parts except the upper door.  The fork thing is the attachment mechanism for the upper/outer door [visible on the real leg as a matt silver rod just above the fescalised portion of the oleo].  I haven't tried it yet, but I suspect this will need to reduced in length - which would make sense because it was designed to attach to a door which would have been a lot too far away.

 

I hope I have explained this in a way that can be understood.  Unless you know your way around the Spiteful/Seafang/Attacker undercarriage, it may not be completely obvious what I am on about!

 

More later

 

Crisp

 

 

Edited December 20, 2017 by Ex-FAAWAFU

[Brandy]

I agree, It's been very slow indeed since the server update......

Nice job on the spinner btw!

 

Ian

[CJP]

That spinner looks the part now and those prop blades look ok to me for the contra-rotating propellor version - it would be good to see a front on view of the undercarriage leg showing how the leg fork bends to accommodate the wheel, the torque link gets in the way in the above photo- I know your fuselage is closed up but I also found a cockpit drawing of the elusive Spiteful/Seafang cockpit in Morgan and Shackladys Spitfire book p503

 

CJP

Edited December 20, 2017 by CJP

[giemme]

Clever explanation on the wheel strut reworking, Crisp. Top job!

 

Ciao

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

I've managed to shave a bit more lateral displacement away by filing a groove into the lower u/c door, thus kind of embedding the bottom of the leg into the door (as per the real thing).

 

Here's what one looks like with wheel (dry) fitted:

 

This was an attempt to reproduce this real view:

 

I've done both legs to the same stage - i.e. torque links fitted (they point significantly outboard, which I hadn't noticed before I started this re-work), leg revised and bottom door fitted.

 

I am now in a bit of a quandary, because I can't think of a way to fit the upper door etc without gluing the legs into position on the aircraft - and I'm certainly not doing that yet!

 

Probably best if I move onto adding a bit to the wheel bays which - though accurate as far as they go - are somewhat sparse, to put it mildly; it appears that once they got outboard of the wheelbase, Trumpeter's designers simply gave up.  I think we can do a bit better than that, without going completely overboard.

 

More soon

 

Crisp

 

P.S. Not enough hands to do this, but the general gist seems to work OK.

 

Edited December 20, 2017 by Ex-FAAWAFU

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

Well this is a bit odd; I seem to have lost a wing tip.  The carpet monster is clearly getting delusions of grandeur, because he hasn't merely snaffled a teeny piece of PE, but a 1" square airfoil section.

 

I have, you may be sure, turned my bench and its surrounds upside down, to no avail.  ON the basis that the original will only show up once I have done a shed-load of work replacing it, I have started to scratch-build the starboard wing tip of a Seafang.  Or an Attacker, if you prefer.

 

Having found a pice of styrene thick enough to match the fattest section of the airfoil, first cut it into approximately the right shape:

 

Then start sanding.  A lot.

 

Still many hours to go on this, but (all joking aside) I don't really see the alternative.  

 

Bugger.  Or words to that effect.

 

Crisp

[moaning dolphin]

Have you checked the dog? I once lost a Seaking tail pylon only to find it a couple of hours later tangled up in the dogs tail! But then again a bit of therapeutic whittling never really hurt anyone much!

 

Bob

[Christer A]

Loosing wing tips is a worrying trend!

But you did a great save 

 

Allt this Seafang modelling is almost enough to push me to the shelf of doom to dust of my poor example...

[Cookenbacher]

Wow, that's some whittling skill there!

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

Thank you, Cookie, but actually it was surprisingly easy.  Much easier than getting decent panel lines in the thing at the end of it!

 

Here it is with the sanding complete and marks drawn on to guide panel line scribing:

 

Here the airfoil seen end on - it isn't quite as thin as the kit part, but they are close enough for it to look convincing when they are a full wingspan apart!

 

Here showing the fit onto the wing.  The missing piece had been sawn away from a one-piece moulding, so the join is actually slightly better now - not that it matters, since the whole point is to have the wings folded:

 

Here a comparison of panel lines (underside of the wing, so probably the more visible of the two faces):

 

And finally here posed in approx the end position:

 

Right.  Now I can get back to doing something other than sanding wingtips!

 

More soon

 

Crisp

 

Edit: Oops! Missed one.  Here is a comparison shot with both wingtips visible.  It's over-exposed, so you can't really see that I have hollowed out the end facing us (yet another triumph for Crisp's Tool of the Year 2017, the Micro-Chisel).  The dot is me getting ready to position the main kit hinge part (which will be supplemented with wire, you may be sure!).

 

Here you can see that the airfoil section isn't identical - fatter towards the trailing edge, in particular.  Part of the problem is that you also need it to taper towards the tip, and judging a double taper / compound curve by eye while sanding is not simple.  I'm happy with it, anyway!  [I actually think my trailing edge is better!]

 

Edited December 22, 2017 by Ex-FAAWAFU

[gingerbob]

We're currently missing a can of evaporated milk, which was called for in the pumpkin pie recipe.  I'm not entirely certain that I actually bought it when I got the other ingredients (it has been a week or so), but I'm blaming the cat.

[giemme]

Outstanding job on that scratch built wing tip, Crisp

The airfoil section difference is only visible in your last pic, so I'm with you thinking that it will go totally unnoticed once in place.

 

BTW, great micro-chisel job Can you please post some details about this tool? TIA

 

Ciao

[keefr22]

1 hour ago, gingerbob said:

We're currently missing a can of evaporated milk, 

 

Any pics of the scratchbuilt replacement then...??

 

Cracking job Crisp, other than the colour they look identical from here! Has the missing kit part shown up yet? 

 

Keith 

[AntPhillips]

4 minutes ago, keefr22 said:

Has the missing kit part shown up yet? 

 

It will turn up as soon as Crisp has glued the scratch built one into place 😉

[hendie]

along with the front deck of his Walrus

On 11/16/2017 at 11:42 AM, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

Apart from folding unfeasibly small pieces of brass, today has been… well… odd.  I have lost part of my model.  Not the sort of carpet monster yomping so familiar to us all with tiny pieces - and particularly to those of us who dabble with PE; this is a large piece, about 2" long - to be precise, the section on top of the nose, seen taped in place in the phot below.   I have turned my workbench upside down over the course of a couple of days, and there is simply no sign of it.

 

Folks... I don't think the Sea King is on hold,  In the last few weeks he's "lost" his mojo, lost half a Walrus, now he's gone and lost a wing ..... I think he's lost the entire Sea King and just too embarrassed to admit to it!