Abrams Deflector and Tow Bar

[GazB]

Quick question. When an Abrams carries its tow bar on the rear, can it also be fitted with the exhaust deflector, or is it a one or the other situation? If so, where else might the tow bar be carried aside from the front or rear? I only ask because I've spotted that DEF is now producing an MCR mounting base for the Abrams. My Academy Abrams has the tow bar on the front and the deflector on the rear, but if I picked up the MCR, the tow bar would have to go (I could put it on my OIF Tamiya Abrams, but then I'd cover up the number roundel on the hull [and not fully either, so its lose lose; not sure if that would've been done IRL, damn Dragon decal instructions ><]).

 

I'd hate to have to omit good parts, so if anyone can clarify for me, I'd much appreciate it

 

Cheers, Gaz.

Edited September 2, 2017 by GazB

[Centaur95]

The towbar isn't a standard fit on the vehicle. The normal towing apparatus consists of the two tow cables on the turret. It is rare to see a towbar carried on the tank .

 

Not sure what you mean by the exhaust 'deflector'? If you mean the upwards facing unit that attaches to the exhaust vent, then that's actually part of the deep wading kit and is only seen on USMC Abrams as far as I'm aware (US Army M1a1 'Common' hulls have the mounting points for it - 'common' meaning a specific production batch of Abrams tanks that were manufactured for both the Army and the Marines that had the same fittings for manufacturing convenience).

 

You also need to be aware that the exhaust of an Abrams gets VERY hot so it's unlikely that much will be stowed on it

 

Others may have better info.

 

Cheers,

Centaur

[GazB]

15 hours ago, Centaur95 said:

The towbar isn't a standard fit on the vehicle. The normal towing apparatus consists of the two tow cables on the turret. It is rare to see a towbar carried on the tank .

 

Not sure what you mean by the exhaust 'deflector'? If you mean the upwards facing unit that attaches to the exhaust vent, then that's actually part of the deep wading kit and is only seen on USMC Abrams as far as I'm aware (US Army M1a1 'Common' hulls have the mounting points for it - 'common' meaning a specific production batch of Abrams tanks that were manufactured for both the Army and the Marines that had the same fittings for manufacturing convenience).

 

You also need to be aware that the exhaust of an Abrams gets VERY hot so it's unlikely that much will be stowed on it

 

Others may have better info.

 

Cheers,

Centaur

I meant one of these that seems to be supplied with most M1 kits now:

 

 

 

Sometimes they're held on the front like that, but other times on the rear towing eyes. What I was unsure about is whether or not they would be hooked onto the back like that if one of these was in place:

 

 

The deflector is just that little hook on box that I believe they sometimes made in the field to stop the jet blast affecting personnel not only in the field but in the motor pool too. When the tow bar is fitted onto the rear, it lies across the opening of this. However if you use two shackles per side and hang them from those, it hangs down on the outside of it, clearing the path.

 

Alternatively I'm wondering if the MCR mounting plate, which also has the hook eyes on it, could fit the tow bar.

 

Cheers, Centaur 

 

Gaz

[AgentG]

Again, the tow bar is not part of the normal load on an Abrams. The exhaust deflector you have in the above photo is not used operationally as far as I know. It is quite essential in repair yard operations, not in the field as such. 

 

The USMC "deflector" is part of the wading kit as stated and would only appear on US Marine Corps tanks. Hanging anything over the exhaust outlet is never recommended, it is way too hot. 

 

As far as fitting a tow bar to a tank with the mine clearing roller, again, the tow bar is not part of the tanks load. Having a tow bar along is more of a "field expedient" modification as opposed to normal practise.

 

It's your build, do as you wish.

 

G 

[Centaur95]

Just because the towbar is supplied in 'most kits' doesn't mean it's an authorised stowage item for an Abrams. Kit manufacturers supply such accessories because they look good and it helps to sell their kits.

 

Yes, crews might grab one if they can beg, borrow or steal it and hang it on their tank - just as they would do with anything else that looked 'useful' (especially in a combat arena, where the regulations are less strictly enforced), but that's very different from it it being an 'issue' item for the vehicle with a pre-defined stowage location.

 

There's no reason you can't use it if you want to but because it's not a standard item, it won't have a defined location on the vehicle.

 

Cheers,

Centaur

[Kingsman]

The rigid tow bar doesn't actually make a lot of sense to carry stowed, or to have on an MBT.  You see them on e.g. MRAP vehicles already mounted and strapped up.  In the case of a breakdown or hit, the bar just needs to be dropped onto a hitch and you're away.  Having to get out and fit it in contact kinda defeats the object.

 

Also, it's an A-frame so it only has 1 attachment to the towing vehicle.  I doubt that any single tow hitch is man enough to pull a dead Abrams, and it would be a very close tow as the bars are short when spread: probably limited to straight pulls on flat surfaces.  Two hawsers would use the 2 towing lugs designed and constructed for the weight and be a longer tow to allow manouvering.  As the Abrams has no front hitch, another tank coming to tow would have to present its bottom to the threat to use the rear hitch. Hawsers allow a reverse tow, keeping the best protection facing the threat.  If the arrival of an ARV is awaited out of contact, it will have its own towing gear.

 

As noted above, the tank crew with the bars stowed on the rear will find them far too hot to use after more than a few minutes' engine running anyway.  And subjecting them to constant high temperture and cooling cycles will probably weaken them.

 

But right or wrong, useful or not it is clearly done and can therefore be legitimately modelled.

[GazB]

On 9/5/2017 at 10:26 PM, Centaur95 said:

Just because the towbar is supplied in 'most kits' doesn't mean it's an authorised stowage item for an Abrams. Kit manufacturers supply such accessories because they look good and it helps to sell their kits.

 

Yes, crews might grab one if they can beg, borrow or steal it and hang it on their tank - just as they would do with anything else that looked 'useful' (especially in a combat arena, where the regulations are less strictly enforced), but that's very different from it it being an 'issue' item for the vehicle with a pre-defined stowage location.

 

There's no reason you can't use it if you want to but because it's not a standard item, it won't have a defined location on the vehicle.

 

Cheers,

Centaur

On 9/5/2017 at 4:32 PM, AgentG said:

Again, the tow bar is not part of the normal load on an Abrams. The exhaust deflector you have in the above photo is not used operationally as far as I know. It is quite essential in repair yard operations, not in the field as such. 

 

The USMC "deflector" is part of the wading kit as stated and would only appear on US Marine Corps tanks. Hanging anything over the exhaust outlet is never recommended, it is way too hot. 

 

As far as fitting a tow bar to a tank with the mine clearing roller, again, the tow bar is not part of the tanks load. Having a tow bar along is more of a "field expedient" modification as opposed to normal practise.

 

It's your build, do as you wish.

 

G 

On 9/6/2017 at 1:11 AM, Das Abteilung said:

The rigid tow bar doesn't actually make a lot of sense to carry stowed, or to have on an MBT.  You see them on e.g. MRAP vehicles already mounted and strapped up.  In the case of a breakdown or hit, the bar just needs to be dropped onto a hitch and you're away.  Having to get out and fit it in contact kinda defeats the object.

 

Also, it's an A-frame so it only has 1 attachment to the towing vehicle.  I doubt that any single tow hitch is man enough to pull a dead Abrams, and it would be a very close tow as the bars are short when spread: probably limited to straight pulls on flat surfaces.  Two hawsers would use the 2 towing lugs designed and constructed for the weight and be a longer tow to allow manouvering.  As the Abrams has no front hitch, another tank coming to tow would have to present its bottom to the threat to use the rear hitch. Hawsers allow a reverse tow, keeping the best protection facing the threat.  If the arrival of an ARV is awaited out of contact, it will have its own towing gear.

 

As noted above, the tank crew with the bars stowed on the rear will find them far too hot to use after more than a few minutes' engine running anyway.  And subjecting them to constant high temperture and cooling cycles will probably weaken them.

 

But right or wrong, useful or not it is clearly done and can therefore be legitimately modelled.

 

Appreciate the responses, everyone. Thanks

 

Gaz

 

[junglejim]

There's plenty of photos out there that show the tow bar is used quite often, even on recent M1A2 SEP v.2's in Korea. The exhaust deflector is also in use, although more commonly seen attached to the turret stowage rails. Check Prime Portal for pics. This is a USMC Abrams using the exhaust deflector. I understand it is common to use them by a towing vehicle so their exhaust doesn't interfere with the tank/crew being towed.

 

6_zps4febad02 by James Carswell, on Flickr

 

us-tanks-m1a2-001 by James Carswell, on Flickr

 

m1a1_details_131_of_435 by James Carswell, on Flickr

 

Jim

Edited September 8, 2017 by junglejim
photo edit

[GazB]

On 9/8/2017 at 4:21 AM, junglejim said:

There's plenty of photos out there that show the tow bar is used quite often, even on recent M1A2 SEP v.2's in Korea. The exhaust deflector is also in use, although more commonly seen attached to the turret stowage rails. Check Prime Portal for pics. This is a USMC Abrams using the exhaust deflector. I understand it is common to use them by a towing vehicle so their exhaust doesn't interfere with the tank/crew being towed.

 

6_zps4febad02 by James Carswell, on Flickr

 

us-tanks-m1a2-001 by James Carswell, on Flickr

 

m1a1_details_131_of_435 by James Carswell, on Flickr

 

Jim

 

Thanks, Jim. That's where my confusion abounds, heh. So many variations and nothing concrete. 

 

Gaz