Dornier Do 18-D *Finished*

[TheBaron]

2 hours ago, bbudde said:

So he sung down the wall

Oh Benedikt. I weep for the nation of Bach, Goethe and Hegel....

1 hour ago, hendie said:

You already have the mini-lathe so you're at least 50% of the way there.... think indexing

Ahh!

 

I knew I'd think of something once you told me what it was I was to think of!

 

Off to read up on that technique later hendie - my thanks! 

40 minutes ago, keefr22 said:

The external diameter of the serrated ring is 11.80mm, 8.95 inside diameter.

Thanks for troubling to check that out Keith - appreciate it. Trouble is with that Mini World stuff is it's just too gorgeous to stick on a kit - it always looks as if it should be on a plinth of it's own!

 

Ok. Tonight's lucubration:

 

Over the last 24hrs or so I've gained a better sense of the aircraft interior from reading and looking through the documentation. Being blessed with accurate plans I can use these as a temporary map to construct the interior in such a way as to be fairly confident that I've understood where the various elements are positioned in relation to each other throughout the airframe, like so:

 My intention is to base the level of detailing on the varying level of visibility for various regions in the final assembly, so areas such as cockpit and gunner positions, exposed tankraum etc. will receive more attention than those other spaces heavily concealed inside, like the laderaum.

 

In terms of keeping things straight in my head, it makes sense I think to start at the front and work my way back along - basically treating the interior sequentially as the sechs Räume (thank-you Benedikt!) of which the aircraft is composed, varying the levels of detail as we go.

 

To start up the front with buklhead three:

And the reverse side:

I mentioned previously that contrary to my initial perception, the floor of the interior varies from space to space, stepping up and down to follow the curve of the keel. Rather than a single unified run of plastic then, the floor has now been divided to follow this scheme:

As you can see, the main central area comprising funkraum, tankraum and laderaum (radio,fuel and cargo spaces respectively) is a single run: the bits on either end step up in order to follow the upward keel-profile front and back. Even so this still required tapering the thickness of the plastic for the last crew space at the back, the heckraum:

Over the next few days I want to move on to the next space back - the cockpit. This requires some investigation and deciphering of the manual particularly with regard to the construction and operation of the sliding seat behind the pilot. 

 

One thing I'm hoping will make life easier on this build is a modest investment in a proper set of collets for my Archimedes drill and some more robust jeweller's drill-bits:

I say 'modest' as the whole lot only came to €7. Here's the links if you're ogling anything similar. The drill-bit have a nice 'bite' when drilling plastic.

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/10pcs-0-3-1-2mm-Carbide-Steel-PCB-CNC-Dremel-Jewelry-Micro-Engraving-Drill-Bits/322065823039?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

 

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/10x-0-5-3-2mm-Micro-Drill-Chuck-Collet-Bit-Brass-Shank-f-Dremel-Rotary-Tool/301991842838?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

 

That's all from tonight's episode of:

Tsk tsk Nicholas. You're an animal.

Tony

 

 

 

 

 

 

[keefr22]

2 minutes ago, TheBaron said:

Thanks for troubling to check that out Keith - appreciate it. Trouble is with that Mini World stuff is it's just too gorgeous to stick on a kit - it always looks as if it should be on a plinth of it's own!

 

 

No worries Tony, I couldn't agree more about them being good enough to be displayed in their own right! I bought this one to go on my currently stalled 'birthday' Airfix Brisfit build (birthday because both it & me were born in 1957 & are old enough to get our free bus passes this year!!) but getting it out to measure this afternoon reminded me just how fiendishly small the p.e. bits that need bending & fitting are!

 

I look forward to what your lathe work produces!

 

Keith

[bbudde]

3 hours ago, TheBaron said:

Oh Benedikt. I weep for the nation of Bach, Goethe and Hegel....

Oh, no need to weep or worry. That hype did go faster than you would think. I like it modern, but also  classic too in some way:

Two different styles, both great:

 

 

Edited September 5, 2017 by bbudde

[Xmald]

I must admit, you`re doing a tremendous job here! I had the kit but never had guts to start it. It is a true joy to watch this how this masterpiece unfolds.

[corsaircorp]

21 hours ago, TonyTiger66 said:

 

Keith's on to something here Tony. These 'Mini-World' cast bronze and photo etch machine gun sets are Gorgeous Things™.

 

They do the gun you need, with the type of spent case receiver shown in your photograph:

 

 

I got the photograph from here;

 

http://henk.fox3000.com/miniworld.htm

 

Lots of web type places sell them. Eduard do a 'Brassin' pair in 1/72, but to be honest, I don't think they look as good as the Mini-World ones.

 

Here's the Wikipedia on your MG15:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG_15

 

"Ammunition was fed by a spring forced spiral double-drum containing 75 rounds total (not 150 as is often mistakenly claimed). This combined with a firing rate of 1000+ rpm means it could empty the magazine in 4.5 seconds or less. "

 

 

 

 

I can't find an aftermarket 1/72 ring piece for the MG 15.

 

I've never had to look for a scale ring piece before  

 

HTH

TonyT

Hello Tony,

Yes it is really impressive, I once shooted with a MG 42, my best in slightly touching the trigger was 3 bullets gone !

My friend is able to shoot one by one on a tripod.

but when you pull the trigger regardless, ouch tremendous !!! I really enjoyed this crazy period in my life !

Sincerely.

CC

[The Spadgent]

Looks like you have a whole bunch of fun lined up inside your fuselage. I really need to step up to the plate and get some glue going on. 

 

Hreat stuff boss. A nice bit of Tull too. Lovely.

 

Johnny

[hendie]

3 hours ago, TheBaron said:

I knew I'd think of something once you told me what it was I was to think of!

 

Now whether it will work or not is another mater entirely!   The diameters you are working with are so small that photo-etch may be the only way to go to get a decent result.  However, I'll throw my thoughts out there in case it sparks any other ideas....

 

I'd start with a piece of rod - the hardest plastic you can find.  Acrylic would be fine but you may have trouble sticking it to other aircrafty bits and vice versa.

So... clamp the rod up in your mini lathe.

Turn it down to the correct diameter

Work out the circumference of your piecework - or the chuck may be better

Print out a strip of lines spaced in 0.5 mm increments and tape that around your work-piece or chuck

Adjust a rest so that it is centered longitudinally with your work-piece and chuck.  The rest will need to be very close to both the chuck and the work-piece

Rotate the chuck until one of the lines on your paper is aligned with the top of the rest.

Use a razor saw to cut a small notch in the end of the work piece.  The hard part here will be ensuring that the depth of cut is consistent all the way around the circumference.  Scribing may work (or not)

Rotate the chuck once increment - repeat the cut/notch

Rotate the chuck and repeat until you have notch all the way around the work-piece

Drill out the center of the work-piece until you have the right internal diameter

Part off the work-piece at the thickness you need and with any luck you'll have something resembling a scarf ring

 

Or it may just be easier to buy another gun that comes with what you need and use that - but like you, I like to try and scratch things myself before resorting to aftermarket goodies

 

 

[Martian]

On ‎03‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 18:47, corsaircorp said:

Hello Tony,

Here we are

Once again, Congratulations, that will be another modelling lesson !

Will look closely for sure, and try jnot to disturb too much..

Were's Percy ??

Sincerely.

Corsaircorp

 

Looks like Tony is in dire need of the changing threads team paying a visit. He has really let his interior detail go to pot!

 

Great start on the kit, the interior looks like it will be a work of art when you have finished it!

 

Martian

 

 

[pheonix]

Completely agree with Martian: the interior alone is going to b a work of art, never mind the rest of the model.

 

P

[TonyTiger66]

Your approach to the internals sounds good Tony. 

 

Superb 2D plans you have there. 

 

Thinking about something you mentioned about the Dornier 18 bring the 'calf' of the 'Wal', I decided to look at the gun mounts included in my Amodel Wal kit:

 

 

It looks like they're supposed to be the same as the ones on your Do 18.

 

Tiny.

 

I'm still stuck in this  room and the lighting isn't very good at all.

 

Nevertheless, I tried to take some photographs of my Whale parts.

 

I had hoped a picture of my ring would be useful.

 

 

Not very detailed. 

 

The gun mount is similarly very simple:

 

 

When Mrs. T. returns later, I'll get her to bring a ruler in to measure my ring; it probably has the same dimensions as Keith's .

 

Always nice to hear/see some Jethro Tull. Thanks for suggesting the newspaper column Tony. Sadly I wouldn't have a clue what to write about .

 

I haven't written much in German for around 25 years, so in line with your suggestion, I've decided to write my memoirs in German. I'm hoping that Wim Wenders will help me get it published, possibly direct the film.

 

The working title is:

"Mein bester Freund ist ein Papageintaucher"

 

Meanwhile, I've been thinking ahead about your nacelles. I have.

 

Best regards

TonyT

[jrlx]

Great plans for the interior, Tony! I'm really impressed with how this build is developing.

 

Cheers

 

Jaime

 

[keefr22]

7 hours ago, TonyTiger66 said:

I had hoped a picture of my ring would be useful.

 

 

7 hours ago, TonyTiger66 said:

When Mrs. T. returns later, I'll get her to bring a ruler in to measure my ring; it probably has the same dimensions as Keith's .

 

 

It's a good thing @CedB is on holiday...!!

 

9 hours ago, hendie said:

Acrylic would be fine but you may have trouble sticking it to other aircrafty bits and vice versa.

 

Maybe one coud then take a mould off it & cast it in resin to make it more stickable - it would be a tad fragile but could be do-able...I'd like to offer to try taking a casting off the Mini World one as a Proof of Concept, but really don't know when I'd get round to it...

 

Keith

[Fritag]

Cracking interior work Tony.  Absolute pleasure to watch   And I'm 'aving some of them drills.......

[TheBaron]

23 hours ago, keefr22 said:

I look forward to what your lathe work produces!

Thanks Keith. I need to haul it out anyway to machine up some pipework, so I can see it being around for a while at this rate!

23 hours ago, bbudde said:

Two different styles, both great:

22 hours ago, Xmald said:

I must admit, you`re doing a tremendous job here! I had the kit but never had guts to start it. It is a true joy to watch this how this masterpiece unfolds.

My thanks for that Xmald! 

I suspect at some point the detailing required will feel more like making jewellery than aircraft.

22 hours ago, corsaircorp said:

Hello Tony,

Yes it is really impressive, I once shooted with a MG 42, my best in slightly touching the trigger was 3 bullets gone !

My friend is able to shoot one by one on a tripod.

but when you pull the trigger regardless, ouch tremendous !!! I really enjoyed this crazy period in my life !

I tremble to think of the context for this Cc? 

Bank robbery?

National Service?

21 hours ago, The Spadgent said:

I really need to step up to the plate and get some glue going on.

Yes. Yes you do!

20 hours ago, hendie said:

Now whether it will work or not is another mater entirely!   The diameters you are working with are so small that photo-etch may be the only way to go to get a decent result.

Thanks for that detailed exposition hendie.

 

I think I may be able to adapt that procedure you suggest by fiddling with one of two of the Dremel attachements - I'll do a test in a few days when the thoughts have settled in the noggin. I'm determined to give it a go, even if it end in failure and ignominy, at least I won't be left wondering if such a thing were possible to achieve. I need to have a dig around the house to see what tubular elements are knocking about....

20 hours ago, Martian Hale said:

Looks like Tony is in dire need of the changing threads team paying a visit. He has really let his interior detail go to pot!

 

Great start on the kit, the interior looks like it will be a work of art when you have finished it!

Help! It's:

I love that film. You were great in it.

 

Nice to have you along Martian!

19 hours ago, pheonix said:

Completely agree with Martian: the interior alone is going to b a work of art, never mind the rest of the model.

Thanks for that Mr. P!

 

No pressure then...

 

19 hours ago, TonyTiger66 said:

Mein bester Freund ist ein Papageintaucher

Oprah will want that as her Book of the Week for sure!

17 hours ago, jrlx said:

I'm really impressed with how this build is developing.

There is a danger of obsession setting in Jaime, I need to be careful it's not just a cockpit come January....

11 hours ago, keefr22 said:

Maybe one coud then take a mould off it & cast it in resin to make it more stickable - it would be a tad fragile but could be do-able...I'd like to offer to try taking a casting off the Mini World one as a Proof of Concept, but really don't know when I'd get round to it...

It's a sweet thought Keith but far too much work for a speculative undertaking.

9 hours ago, Fritag said:

Cracking interior work Tony.  Absolute pleasure to watch   And I'm 'aving some of them drills.......

Ta Steve.  

 

Those pointy-nointies are worth a punt at that price. There seem to be a few Chinese sellers around on Eplace who specialize in jeweller's and medical tools at the most extraordinarily low prices. Home dentistry can be within the reach of the common man!

 

Now. Some small but nonetheless eye-aching work to relate.

 

Having moved into the cockpit I got to work on detailing the rear bulkhead of it at rib 7. Amidst the baroque range of protuberances and levers that proliferate around this particular space, there's a kind of bassoon-like fixture on the starboard side of the bulkhead, which if my pitiful translation isn't too far astray, is a speaking tube allowing communication between the radio/navigation room and flight deck- voilà:

I could actually feel my retinas throb after doing that. A mixture of Slater's microrod, 0.4mm brass tube, and 5 amp fuse wire went into the mix. Before mounting that I had added some of the wiring loom that runs up that side of the bulkhead at the junction with the wall, and a set of channels that run parallel to the side of the doorway:

Conscious of using the pilot's seat as a brenchmark to keep things in scale, I bunged the floor in temporarily, using BluTak:

The paper plan will come off of the floor eventually, but only after I've gotten the main features aligned and all necessary mounting holes drilled.

 

Having exhausted my concentration now on that, I succumbed to childish temptation and taped this assembly into the fuselage to have a gander:

That looks Ok. There was a serious point behind this as I wanted to eyeball the chair in-situ to make sure I'dgotten the height correct:

That looks about right to me.

 

You'll forgive me if that's all I have at the moment, I'm off to get some eye-drops and cucumber patches....

 

Oh. One rather exciting (in modelling terms anyways) discovery I made digging around in the parts manual is something I've never seen in photos or read anything about, and that is some kind of blind flying apparatus (blindfluggerrate) installed on the very top of the the upper motor housing (Motorgondel). Here's a crude sketch of the structure:

As you can see, it's about 15' high and according to the manual it is installed on the aircraft for night-flying (Nachtflug).

 

I haven't seen this configuration mentioned in relation to the Dornier 18 before, and was certainly unaware of it being a feature of the aircraft at all until now. Outside of the 'Battle of the Beams' stuff my knowledge of Luftwaffe radio-navigation stuff is too mediocre to offer any kind of authoritative statement about the particular system that was in use.

 

Tony

 

 

 

 

 

[TonyTiger66]

Nice work on the speaking tube Tony. That's ludicrously small, yet it also looks like it's hollow. i.e. your 1/72 crew can really use it to speak to each other .

 

Great stuff.

 

Best regards

TonyT

[Spookytooth]

51 minutes ago, TonyTiger66 said:

Nice work on the speaking tube Tony. That's ludicrously small, yet it also looks like it's hollow. i.e. your 1/72 crew can really use it to speak to each other .

 

Great stuff.

 

Best regards

TonyT

Probably cheaper than using the phone?

 

Simon.

[Martian]

Nice work. That aerial just has to go on the model!

 

Martian

[corsaircorp]

1 hour ago, Martian Hale said:

Nice work. That aerial just has to go on the model!

 

Martian

Hello Martian,

Custom officer and actor in your own role !!

 What a tremendous life too, is the thing in your acolyte's hands a blurgelcruncheon ??

Here's for you

Soooo ?? Still wet ???

wanna see the other one and may be buy it to improve the fonderie !

Nice to see you

Sincerely.

CC

[corsaircorp]

Hello tony,

Bank robbery with a MG 42 ??

How are you to conceal that thing for crossing the road ???

Meanwhile, it will be efficient, but take some ammos since the thing cough rapidly !!

National service, no no longer ! my father was Lucky enough to still use the MG 42 but scarcely !

No, in fact, I was in band of friends restoring old military weaponry !

On that same day, we fired a MG 34, MG 42, FG 42, Bren, browning .30 aaaand .50 raaaahh that was a good souvenir !!!

hope that you still will dare to shake my hand and have a drink in Telford ??

Sincerely.

CC

 

[corsaircorp]

Hooops, forget to say that I'm really impressed by the great job done here

Your Dornier will be pristine, what a detailling,

Stiil feel completely inadequate and kinda like an apprentice Ooo Sensei San !

Sincerely.

Corsaircorp

[jrlx]

The great work continues. Don't worry about the obsession: it's a good obsession and we onlookers rather like it

 

Cheers

 

Jaime

[greggles.w]

4 hours ago, TheBaron said:

haven't seen this configuration mentioned in relation to the Dornier 18 before, and was certainly unaware of it being a feature of the aircraft at all until now.

 

.. perhaps there's some link between this & the bassoonist / co-pilot ... allows for one to hear live recitals on the high seas?

 

Are you sure you're not using this Dornier carcass as the basis for making a Farley Fruitbat??

[AlexN]

Good grief! What wiv you and Ced, I'm suffering from severe dizziness - my, er, 'balance' is never very good at the best o' times >froth froth, foam foam< - and I can't keep up, puff puff. No, I DID NOT say "keep it up"

you degenerate weasels .

 

only up to page three so I will have to rewind somewhat(!).

 

I dare say that it's currently looking as good - or at least as interesting - as it is where I am currently at (the bottom [OI!] of page two).

 

Cheers,

Dr Weirdo  <-- not a weirdo

[keefr22]

9 hours ago, greggles.w said:

Are you sure you're not using this Dornier carcass as the basis for making a Farley Fruitbat??

 

 

Ooh, that would be good....!! 

[AlexN]

On 04/09/2017 at 05:08, TheBaron said:

hairy hachure 

 

So that's where the term 'hatching' came from. I always wondered...  Thank you, Yer Baronship .

 

I've caught up now, you will be sad to hear ...