Dornier Do 18-D *Finished*

[TheBaron]

16 minutes ago, keefr22 said:

Waiting anxiously to see what your premature finger cut off....!!

Here you go Keith:

The metal strips are there to mould some subtle surface relief in so that I know where to cut later so that both the roof windows can be in their open positions, allowing for a view into the cockpit. After a final test fit to the fuselage, this was pegged out and subjected to the necessary level of persuasion:

Despite a clumsily overlooked speck of plastic giving an unexpected 'nipple' to the roof on the pilot's side (not an issue as this is going to be cut off and replaced by a sliding section anyway), the first mould looks happy enough for the required job:

 

In regressing this kit back to a 'D' variant, to do so in a satisfactory manner means converting the angular prow-like nose of the 'G' into a more rounded snout-like affair, akin to turning a Schiele into a Rubens. A mixture of Milliput and the (by now indispensable) sihrsc promiseda direct and controllable method. First stage:

In hindsight it looks like we took a left turn there and made Popeye's pipe, however the cylinder is stuck in to mould the circular opening for the bow position.

 

Having hardened overnight, initial shaping of the very front of the bow region could commence:

That 'return' has to curve so far back in fact that the wall of the kit at the very front becomes paper-thin - in fact if you look at the shot below you can see it broke through in a small region:

Further shaping:

The actual position for the gunner requires a curve within the overall curve of the bow shape, which necessitates carefully scrutiny from all angles at regular intervals during this stage:

There is only so much you can do at this stage as the fuselage needs opening up again for detailing work:

What I particularly like about using Milliput for such tasks is that you can crack the fuselage into two halves again, knowing that it won't flake and can be rejoinedas a smooth fit:

The internal lip to the bow gun position is too big and clunky so that will be cut out later, and the same for the rear gun position.

 

The existing internal door shape to the cockpit is wrong, so I made a new bulkhead to correct this as well:

The interior forms and shapes of this aircraft are comprised of some wonderfully cursive - if not downright Gothic - profiles. Pleasing to the eye but time-consuming to get correct.

 

Right. More anon.

 

Hope the rest of you are having a good day if you're getting stuck in!

Tony

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jrlx]

That's some carefully done conversion work, Tony. Well done!

[keefr22]

Good start Tony, significant difference in that cockpit glazing...!

 

Have you decided on your plan for the final display yet? On water being maintained, or after having been dragged ashore?

 

Keith

[AlexN]

 Be very, very, very careful using silicone as a release agent, Tony. Very careful indeed. In fact, I would suggest that you DON'T. Get that stuff on a surface that is going to receive paint, or thin-layer epoxy, or any other suface coating, and that coating will never stick. And it's very hard to track down and eliminate once it's out of the bottle. I had a terrible time with it poisoning paintjobs on my recent 1:1 boat, and now won't have a bar of it. I'm surprise that it didn't work very well on paint. A reputable boat-building firm that I know of banned the stuff from their premises, but some got in one day from a boat that came in for repairs...

 

Substances that are used as mould release agents are polyvinyl acohol, carnauba wax, and many others. Do an internet search for companies that sell moulding/casting requisites and have a look through their catalogues. Or an internet seach for the two items that I have mentioned.

 

And don't let the silicone anywhere near your modelling cave.

 

My tuppence-worth, and others may disagree: I am reporting my own direct experience, and really don't want to start an Internet Flame War^TM.

 

Looking good - of course - by the way. I got such a shock seeing that spray can that Imcompletley forgot to say something nice about your fine work, but remembered so I've added it post hoc.

 

Cheers,

Alex.

[hendie]

ah.. Experimentation, carnage, and failure right in the very first post out of the starting gate.  What's not to like?

 

Sir, you are a man after my own heart

 

 

 

 

PS - did you think about making a female mold from the part(s) to ignore the plastic thickness and get closer to the final size? 

edited cos I didn't read page 2 of the post       'doh!

Edited September 2, 2017 by hendie

[CedB]

3 hours ago, TheBaron said:

...then Ced and myself can go into business as 'Strut and Flux Associates'.

Yep, sounds like a plan. You strut, I'll fl... hang around for odd jobs

 

Great work with the Milliput and sihrsc - that profile looks excellent.

Nice canopy too, even with the unexpected nipple - bonus!!??

[TheBaron]

3 hours ago, keefr22 said:

Good start Tony, significant difference in that cockpit glazing...!

 

Have you decided on your plan for the final display yet? On water being maintained, or after having been dragged ashore?

Cheers Keith.  I'm still umming and ahhing about the final manifestation as it were. With opening up things like the midship fuel tank section it's going to have to be a beached exhibit. IIRC this particular aircraft flew out of Hornum on Sylt, there's a report of a raid on the place from about 6 months after M7+YK was shot down from the Flight archive here:

https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1940/1940 - 0899.PDF

 

There is a trolley for this kit from Kora:

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/KORC7215

but at nearly 20 quid excluding postage not something I'm likely to buy. The documentation has a full section on supporting, transporting, and completely taking apart an actual aircraft, which includes a number of - shall we say? - rather baroque mechanisms that may make for an interesting bit of scratching.

4 hours ago, jrlx said:

That's some carefully done conversion work, Tony. Well done!

Thanks Jaime.  I like to save up the errors in order to to form an exciting cluster of them at some later stage of the build...

3 hours ago, AlexN said:

Be very, very, very careful using silicone

Cheers for that salutary warning Alex - that's well away on the bike shelf again now. 

Just glad I never went for that augmentation surgery - the fake tan would never stick....

2 hours ago, CedB said:

Nice canopy too, even with the unexpected nipple - bonus!!??

The rare Dornier 'Anne Boleyn' variant!

2 hours ago, hendie said:

Sir, you are a man after my own heart

Just for you hendie  - a bit of surgery:

Behold the kit IP.

 

Given that Matchbox allowed 70s plastic fiends to go mad with either a military of civilian option on this variant, the IP is another of the compromises they introduced that needs to be addressed.

 

Here's the situation as I understand it from research. The above IP is fine for the civilian version, providing accommodation for pilot and pilot's friend (co-pilot). For the military version, the IP does not continue all the way across to starboard as seen above, but terminates in a small 'stump' so as to avoid blocking the access door in bulkhead 3 to the forward gun position. In addition, the cockpit seating is more complex. Pilot's (fuhrersitz) seat remains as is to port, but instead of a fixed co-pilot seat next to it there is a folding kommandantensitz, apparently for dual instrument training. behind these two there is additionally a sliding seat (schiebersitz) in front of rib (spant) number 7 that forms the rear bulkhead of the flight deck. These positions can be seen here in my crude sketch:

This begs the question of who sits where in the four-man crew, given the seating variations? With the need for immediate access to all areas of the aircraft on operational duty I don't see the kommandantensitz being installed (I've only seen in mentioned in relation to instrument training anyway), so presume the observer sat slightly behind the pilot on the sliding seat until going forward to man the bow gun. The radio operator has his own rotating seat (funkersitz - great name!) in the Funk und Navigationsraum radio room immediately behind the cockpit, which also contains the navigator position (Did the radio op also navigate?). As to the flight engineer, I can't find a seat anywhere further back listed for him so far so did he sit in the nav position when not manning the rear gun and running equipment? There is a toilet (klossettanlage) in the rear compartment but it would seem unnecessarily sadistic that he had to squat there for take off and landings...

 

These questions might well become clearer from spending longer poorly translating the original Gothic serifery, but meantime more pragmatic steps have to be taken:

I am completely smitten now with the RB Prods. contour saw set for these jobs. That lower console for throttle and flaps got similarly excised and I built a new console from a short cylindrical section of scrap sprue:

There should be six channels there but that will do for the representative level of detail that will be visible at the end.

 

Just behind the IP is the forward bulkhead separating cockpit from bow compartment. Using the contour gauge I took a reading of one side and flipped it over to make a paper template. Here it is pounced out onto some scrap plastic:

It'll probably drop off but I built door to add later on for the access tunnel:

 

 

Here is that now added to the structure along with the re-built console sections, bringing this part of the aircraft now a little closer to the actual thing:

Eyes and brain hurting somewhat after that so calling that a day. More tommorrow I hope.

Tony

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CedB]

Wow. Nice IP Tony, great stuff

Your command of the German language is impressive!

[hendie]

24 minutes ago, TheBaron said:

Eyes and brain hurting a little after that now so calling that a day.

 

What !  it's only 11:20 am here and I've got the rest of the day to get through.   Nice start though - this is shaping up nicely

[jrlx]

Great job on the IP and bulkhead

[Spookytooth]

2 hours ago, jrlx said:

Great job on the IP and bulkhead

X2 Tony..

Mind if I pull up a chair >

 

 

Simon.

[AdrianMF]

A classic build taking shape here!

 

Regards,

Adrian

[keefr22]

38 minutes ago, Spookytooth said:

Mind if I pull up a chair >

 

Get one for the poor flight engineer too while you're at it Simon....

[Spookytooth]

9 minutes ago, keefr22 said:

Get one for the poor flight engineer too while you're at it Simon....

Will do Keith, plus some sandwiches and a pot of coffee too.

 

Simon.

[keefr22]

Good man!

[bbudde]

I'm in here for that. Good start. A valcon canopy would also be an option. Always liked the Matchbox ones as they were very extravagant on they subjects.

This may help a bit for scratching (photo gallery->Do -18)

http://www.seawings.co.uk/

Edited September 2, 2017 by bbudde

[The Spadgent]

I should have known you would have started with surgery and vac form.

excelent work on the IP old bean. You're looking grand already. 

Ps. Don't forget the bits in the box, the goddess of wine has spoken. 

 

Jont.

[TheBaron]

21 hours ago, CedB said:

Wow. Nice IP Tony, great stuff

Your command of the German language is impressive!

Afternoon Ced - ta for that!

 

As to the language skills, my lips really do move as I run my finger along the lines of text. Mrs. B thought I was praying earlier when in fact I was simply trying to decipher the German for 'rear-space' (it's heckraum btw...)

 

21 hours ago, hendie said:

Nice start though - this is shaping up nicely

Cheers hendie. A bit more mayhem to peruse below....

I can't believe the difference in confidence that having proper aeronautical documentation is making on this: not that that's any guarantee of erroneous and felonious mistakery on my part....

20 hours ago, jrlx said:

Great job on the IP and bulkhead

Thanks Jaime.  

18 hours ago, Spookytooth said:

Mind if I pull up a chair >

Grab a pew Simon - you're most welcome!

17 hours ago, AdrianMF said:

A classic build taking shape here!

Cheers Adrian. 

 

This is an aircraft that seems to combine engineering logic with a dramatic sensibility - if such a thing makes sense where aircraft are concerned - in a most engaging way.

14 hours ago, bbudde said:

A valcon canopy would also be an option.

Hi Benedikt!

 

I'm a great admirer of the Falcon stuff but unfortunately the ClearVax set that contains the canopy for this doesn't have any other aircraft that interest me really at the moment. 

 

The Seawings site is fantastic isn't it? I love the sense of enthusiam it radiates about the subject.

 

I must apologize in advance for any damage that I do to the German language with my inexpert translation from the manuals - please feel free to correct! 

1 hour ago, The Spadgent said:

I should have known you would have started with surgery and vac form

I'm at a difficult age....

1 hour ago, The Spadgent said:

Don't forget the bits in the box

I feast upon them voraciously, as a shark upon a helpless school of fish!

 

Up early and spry this morning after a mini-marathon of Battlestar Galactica (reboot) avec famille Baron last night and channelling my inner Dr. Gaius Baltar at the bench. 

 

A primary concern at this stage is to get the interior structures of the fuselage organized and well-understood enough prior to detailing. To clear the way for this step I got to work with the contour saws again:

Both front and rear gun/observer positions have big lumps that need taking off to reduce them down closer to what you see on the actual aircraft. You can only get inside the inner curvature of the fuselage so far with a longer blade before you start taking out the wall of the aircraft as well, so a quick change over to a smaller contour blade lets you complete the cut as close-in as you need to go  for such a job:

You can see the difference that makes now:

Here they are both done now:

A few scratches to tidy up but otherwise fine. You can see below just how thin that filing-down the nose to get the 'D' profile has made the very front now:

A smear of Milliput later on will sort that out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TheBaron]

The rear position had similar issues - some kind of ugly 'step' that seems to bears no relation to anything, so here that is in the process of disappearing last night:

I then took out the surround of the gunner's opening in the top of the fuselage there as well in the same fashion as for the front position.

 

Having got rid of these chunky bits left the interior clear to start working out floors and bulkheads. To do this I cut out a scale overhead plan from the manual, stuck this to some plasticard, which was in turn cut out to produce a starting point for the floor shape right the way along the aircraft. Some of the floors are at slightly different heights to each other so it won't remain in a single piece by necessity, but look how well Matchbox did at matching the actual aircraft:

It's slightly over-size in terms of width, due to the thickness of the kit walls. Removing about 2mm in width all the way around the edge of the floor with the Dremel to compensate for this, and voilà :

You've got to admit, many modern kits aren't this accurate!

 

Buoyed up by this pleasant revelation it was out with the contour gauge for an unexciting but necessary run at roughing out the bulkheads (schott):

The numbers there correspond to the rib (spant) numbers on the engineering drawings for the aircraft:

^{Image credit: George Worley}

You can also see in the above how the aircraft is effectively broken down into a series of six functional spaces (raum).

 

The above phase of the work wasn't interesting enough to produce any worthwhile images, but simply continued the methodology I'd outlined previously of using the contour gauge to create a paper template and then pouncing this out onto plastic card:

Once you hit the rhythm and get a small production line running on making those parts, it gets accomplished surprisingly rapidly; probably best gotten out of the way in a single session like this however...

 

That's pushed us on now to the point where we can start to dwell on the finer points of blocking-out the main internal spaces prior to examining detailing in greater depth.

Tony

 

 

 

 

[bbudde]

Hello Tony, I may only correct your german, if it really hurts my eyes.  Everything is generally correct /ok.

 ein Raum/sechs Räume; ein Schott/ zwei Schotten. Cheers

[hendie]

ooooohhhh lots of scratching I see.    This build is so interesting I'm almost tempted to do one too

[Fritag]

14 minutes ago, hendie said:

ooooohhhh lots of scratching I see.    This build is so interesting I'm almost tempted to do one too

I know what you mean!  Take one beautiful aeroplane; add a kit from a much loved manufacturer; mix in Tony's practically perfect posting and you have BM magic.

[TonyTiger66]

It's all going rather well Tony.

 

Some very helpful photographs regarding good use of contour saws in cramped spaces  

 

Righto; this canopy business. Mr. Falcon's sets are quite cheap really. I can't help but think that by the time you've used up Milliput, extra filler, sanding stuff and so on, the saving over the complete set wouldn't be much  ?

 

Plus you can put the canopies/whole set of stuff you don't want, on the BM for sale/swap area?

 

I don't have any investment in Falcon, it's just that you're going to a lot of effort here; research materials, scratchbuilding etc.

 

I can't help thinking that paying Mr. Falcon for his bit of specialist time saving, sparkly bling glasswork, would give you more time to concentrate on differently sized/profile propellers, nacelle grill/intake bits, good TV, nice music, fine wine, ale and spirits, top grub and general debauchery .

 

Nevertheless, it could be that these are just my misinformed other interests/uses of time in life  ?

 

 

Best regards

TonyT

[Spookytooth]

Not content is re-profiling the contours Tony, you are fitting out the internals as well.

Glad I have got a chair for this one,, but must get some more nibbles in.

 

Keep up the excellent work mate.

 

Simon.

[corsaircorp]

Hello Tony,

Here we are

Once again, Congratulations, that will be another modelling lesson !

Will look closely for sure, and try jnot to disturb too much..

Were's Percy ??

Sincerely.

Corsaircorp