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I have recently purchased a CURTISS R3C-0 in 1/72 by Fine Molds. I'm hoping that I'll be able to convert it to a Schneider R3C-2. I haven't compared it to any plans yet, so the jury is still out on that. I'm also thinking about the Savoia S.21, another Schneider racer but again, without comparing this to plans, I don't know its accuracy either. :shrug:

 

Sorry for the slight topic drift Dennis.

 

Stuart.

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On 05/07/2018 at 13:57, greggles.w said:

Thanks Jaime, very kind - especially considering how far I am beyond the end date to this group build!

Hi greggles!

 

Don't worry about the long past deadline. Your impressive build clearly deserves the time you're taking and all your efforts are paying off!

 

Cheers

 

Jaime

 

 

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From bottom to top tonight: jumping up from the floats (so very close to finished ..) to the upper wing.

 

A simple affair as provided:

 

BM_CR-3 Wing scribing

 

However this is consistent with the basic Curtiss construction method: timber frame, cross-ply skinned & sanded to a lovely homogeneous smooth aerofoil (ailerons are in the lower wing).  This is how it was built for the initial CR-1, but as mentioned way back at the start of this thread, the CR-2 added innovative surface radiators to the upper wing, the extent of which was increased further on the higher powered CR-3.

 

The radiators comprised two skins of brass. The first, flat sheet laid conforming to the surface of the wing. The second, profiled sheet laid on top, with corrugations aligned longitudinally.  Coolant was then pumped between the two, from the leading to the rear edge.  Like so:

 

BM_CR-3 Wing scribing

 

At 1/4 inch ridge-to-ridge, it will need to be some sort of ‘interpretation’ rather than an attempt a true-to-scale!

 

What can be seen clearly are lapped sheet joints, in contrasting coloured metal.  Here on the CR-2:

 

BM_CR-3 Wing scribing

 

And here similar two years later on the R3C-2:

 

BM_CR-3 Brass

 

Here you can see the sheets being installed on a lower wing of another Curtiss:

 

BM_CR-3 Wing scribing

 

The radiators cover near to all the upper wing surface area - above & below.

 

BM_CR-3 Wing scribing

 

So I’ve prepared a guide for scribing:

 

BM_CR-3 Wing scribing

 

I’m thinking I’ll scribe lines in the usual way to match the plan above.

 

I then have a plan to scribe finely spaced parallel lines between the main scribing, to give the ridged texture.  To do this I’m in the process of trying to make a scribing ‘rake’ or ‘broom’ to drag down each band.  I’ve CA glued an underused micro-saw to an old scalpel blade end ..

 

BM_CR-3 Wing scribing

 

.. to trim to width when that bonds (if it will?)

 

I experimented, freehand, with a narrow micro-saw with just a few teeth, on this old R3C-2 wing.

 

BM_CR-3 Wing scribing

 

Sufficiently encouraging to keep going.

 

More tomorrow, all going well ..

 

 

 

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Well indeed.  All the above very useful as I’ve been mulling over how I’m going to deal with the radiators on th M.39. I’ve a scrap of groved Evergreen sheet that might do. Groves are about 1mm apart. Too close for me to try and scribe between them.with my aging vision.  Also, wood for struts? Very thin, about the same as a coffee stirrer.  

 

Thanks for posting.

 

Dennis

 

Edited by DMC
tones?
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13 hours ago, DMC said:

All the above very useful as I’ve been mulling over how I’m going to deal with the radiators on th M.39. I’ve a scrap of groved Evergreen sheet that might do. Groves are about 1mm apart. Too close for me to try and scribe between them.with my aging vision.

 

Well keep in mind Dennis - this is very much an experiment! No guarantees it will work. To prove this point: that attempt to bond the two blades together came to nothing- they snapped apart at the slightest touch this morning!

 

How to represent surface radiators is indeed a dilemma.  My stash reveals several strategies: some kits have raised detail, others recessed; one has etched brass to laminate into recesses on the wings; a few provide decals, some on their own and others in addition to moulded detail.

 

And then there’s the variation in the detail of the radiator profile. This first Curtiss version has the relatively pronounced saw-tooth peaks & troughs to the surface of the brass.  Later machines & other manufacturers differ.  In fact if I recall correctly those on the M39 were somewhat more subtle: a series of inverted triangular brass tubes braised together in parallel so their bases formed a continuous flat surface to the wing.  That Italian book I referenced above describes the detail.

 

There was a very convincing rendition on a Macchi I saw online.  I think it was just careful & clever painting.  I’ll see if I can find it again & post the link.

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I have to admire your attention to detail on these radiators but is it realistic to achieve that detail in this scale, after all, if you have ridges 1/4" apart that's 0.13mm in 1/48?

 

The only way I can think of is to get wire of about 0.13mm and wrap around some former tightly, the former being already glued as you don't want the glue to fill in the troughs. But after all that, would primer/ paint fill in the troughs anyway? 

 

Stuart

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5 hours ago, Courageous said:

 

I have to admire your attention to detail on these radiators but is it realistic to achieve that detail in this scale, after all, if you have ridges 1/4" apart that's 0.13mm in 1/48?

 

I very much agree with you that to attempt scale accuracy would be near to futile! I’ll be content if I get some sort of finely ‘brushed’ texture.

 

Enjoyed contemplative red wine with company tonight - so no scribing for me today!!

 

Went & slathered some putty on my Crusader build instead. 😬🍷

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3 hours ago, Jean Pierre CULIS-FERY said:

Waouh! Great job! as we say in France: "C'est de la maquette d'homme!".

 

A question with witch materiel did you build the jig?

 

Best regards.

 

Jean.

Thanks for the encouragement Jean.

 

The jig is made from cardboard.  I source it from art / technical drawing supply stores in A1 sheets for a few dollars.  This one is glossy & white. Usually I prefer ‘boxboard’, a greyish recycled cardboard from the same source which is cheaper again & more readily absorbs the PVA glue (used sparingly) allowing for speedy construction.  They are often used by architects studios  for making quick & cheap models during the design process.

 

Sorry, but I’m no help with a French retailer though!

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16 hours ago, greggles.w said:

Thanks for the encouragement Jean.

 

The jig is made from cardboard.  I source it from art / technical drawing supply stores in A1 sheets for a few dollars.  This one is glossy & white. Usually I prefer ‘boxboard’, a greyish recycled cardboard from the same source which is cheaper again & more readily absorbs the PVA glue (used sparingly) allowing for speedy construction.  They are often used by architects studios  for making quick & cheap models during the design process.

 

Sorry, but I’m no help with a French retailer though!

Hello,

 

Thank for your explanation, i have andestand witch kind of material you use and i have near my home a art store were i kind find it (for few Euros in my country). This will help me with one of my project who is in stand by because i did'nt know how to fix the floats of my seaplane (a short crusader). It was very difficult because on my plane there is no horizontal structure beetween the floats. The way you build your mast will help me too.

 

Thank a lot.

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You’re welcome Jean, glad I could help.

 

4 minutes ago, Jean Pierre CULIS-FERY said:

fix the floats of my seaplane (a short crusader). It was very difficult because on my plane there is no horizontal structure beetween the floats.

 

A Short Crusader! Very good. I have one of those underway at the moment too:

 

 

... and yes I too had to resort to a jig to bring things together:

 

Crusader_17.7.26_1

 

 

Crusader_17.8.7_1

 

Crusader_17.8.8_2

 

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Scribing, scribing..

 

& enough for tonight - signs of slippage warn against pushing on beyond my capacity.  Hard to photograph, but here the progress so far, 2/3rds done on the upper surface:

 

BM_CR-3_wing scribing

 

G’night 

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I once started (my usual attempt to build a kit: chicken out before any paint goes on) the Testors Curtiss racer with the same corrugated cooling areas. My final "solution" was to apply acrylic gel medium (art store - used to give volume to the acrylic paint) with a stiff brush. Main issues were that the acrylic gel did not adhere too well straight to Styrene and second - I do not know how it looks with paint or (as I wanted to do) with leaf brass on. I can try to dig out the kit and take a few pics if you want.

René

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2 hours ago, greggles.w said:

First bay of secondary finer texture scribing:

 

BM_CR-3 radiators

 

Now I’ve satisfied my curiosity, I must first finish the primary scribing...

:

Neat work, looks as though you might have the radiator problem worked out.

 

And a belated thanks for the link.  Had it bookmarked already but I appreciate the gesture.

 

Dennis 

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19 hours ago, Courageous said:

Sorry but that scribing would freek me out, I would have to think of another way.

Looking good though.

 

Stuart

 

It is a bit freaky Stuart, but no more so than regular scribing.  I’m quite new to it all.  This texture has been achieved by snipping a length of micro-saw to the width of one band of radiator, which I then inserted it into an Xacto knife.  It produces about 5 or 6 (I go cross-eyed if I try to count!!) lines in parallel.  But otherwise the technique is much the same: a straight edge to rule along, multiple passes, gently at first, progressively more confident .. but still freaky, yes!

 

I have found that I can do only about four bands in a sitting before I get the shakes, & it is definitely a task for daylight hours. Attempts under internal lighting, no matter how bright, were much more difficult.

 

On 8/9/2018 at 10:02 PM, Caerbannog said:

I once started (my usual attempt to build a kit: chicken out before any paint goes on) the Testors Curtiss racer with the same corrugated cooling areas. My final "solution" was to apply acrylic gel medium (art store - used to give volume to the acrylic paint) with a stiff brush. Main issues were that the acrylic gel did not adhere too well straight to Styrene and second - I do not know how it looks with paint or (as I wanted to do) with leaf brass on. I can try to dig out the kit and take a few pics if you want.

René

 

It seems we both have grappled with this dilemma & reached similar conclusions!  I too have considered metal leaf.  Apparently there is something called ‘Dutch gold leaf’ which is actually brass - a lower cost alternative to gold.  I’ve yet to examine some, but the imagery I’ve seen suggests - not surprisingly- that it’s a very shiny yellow-gold colour, rather than the coppery-orange colour of the radiators.

 

Any advice you may have from your experiments would always be of interest thanks Rene.

 

g.

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