Civil FW-200 interior - replica?

[Admiral Puff]

One of my (many) ongoing projects is a conversion of the Trumpeter 1:48 FW-200 to a civil aircraft. It is stalled at the moment because of a lack of reliable interior detail.

 

Somewhere in my travels I recall seeing that a museum in Berlin (I think) has on display a replica of part of a civil FW-200 interior. I thought that it was the Museum of Technology, but haven't been able to confirm that - the Museum's web site hasn't been helpful. Can anyone confirm (a) the existence of the replica and (b) its whereabouts? I will be visiting Denmark next month, and may be able to get down to Berlin to see, measure and photograph the thing - if I can find it!

[Sabrejet]

It is part of the aircraft being restored at various locations in Germany: wings and engines with Airbus at Bremen for example. They are using the recovered crash remains of a few Fw 200s (military) to create a civilian machine.

 

The mid-fuselage (I'm guessing that just the interior would be a replica, with genuine Fw 200 structure) is indeed on display in Berlin, at the Deutsches Technikmuseum - http://www.steffenkahl.de/luftfahrt/focke-wulf-fw-200/

 

I haven't seen that part but managed to get a look at the wings, engines and landing gear being restored last year:

 

 

[Admiral Puff]

Thanks for that - I'll drop the Museum a line, and see what happens!

[bryanm]

Thanks for posting - I had no idea there was a Condor rebuild in progress.

[Dave Fleming]

This is primarily the one recovered in Norway that fell apart spectacularly a sit was raised from the water

 

http://company.airbus.com/company/heritage/now-and-then/Days-of-the-Condor.html

 

I'm presuming they will correct the engines, Civil Condors having 'straight' nacelles whereas Mil one shad canted outboard ones

Edited September 1, 2017 by Dave Fleming

[Jure Miljevic]

Hello

I have an old Revell 1/72 Sindicato Condor kit in my stash and nagging question about civilian Condor's wings: had their outer panels also been fabric covered as with military versions? Cheers

Jure

[Admiral Puff]

AFAIK, Jure, the civil Condors had metal panels outboard - that's what it looks like in the photos I've seen, anyway. I think that the ailerons may have been fabric covered, as was quite common at the time. If you don't already have it, can I suggest that you get hold of a copy of Focke-Wulf Fw 200 Condor with Danish Airlines in War and Peace, 1938-1946 by Rob Mulder and Gunther Ott (European Airlines, 2013, www.europeanairlines.no). A great book with lots of useful information. (Not connected in any way, just a very satisfied customer.)

 

I've heard back from the Museum. They confirm they have the fuselage section, and suggest that I contact them if/when I get to Berlin. Now I've got to make sure that I get there!

[Jure Miljevic]

Hello

Thank you, Admiral Puff. To me, too, smooth surface of wings on in-flight photos suggests metal covering. Also thanks for info about Danish Condors' book. It probably contains plenty of photos of ex-Danish Condor in BOAC service; admittedly, Dania livery looks much more attractive. Cheers

Jure

[The Tomohawk Kid]

?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I tried to post the links only, but the images magically appeared!

Of any use?

 

Thomo.

Edited September 2, 2017 by The Tomohawk Kid

[Admiral Puff]

Thanks, Thomo. I've seen some of them, but not in so clear an iteration. Lots of useful detail there!

 

Hopefully, if I get to the Museum I'll be able to run a tape over those seats, and that will solve a lot of my problems.

 

Jiri, that book has some good profiles covering all the Danish schemes. They are reliable - the artist, Juanita Franzi, is renowned for the research she puts into her work. Even the colours are OK, although that's very much subject to the printing process used. Sadly there aren't many photos of the BOAC scheme - the aircraft didn't survive long enough, and I suspect that people had other things on their mind at the time!

[The Tomohawk Kid]

Keep us posted on your conversion - its sounds intriguing

 

Thomo

[Jure Miljevic]

Hello Admiral Puff

When I first saw Fw 200 kit decades ago I immediately jumped on it as 1/72 airlines have always been quite rare. I believe it was the last one in a shop otherwise I would snatch those, too. At the time the only way to build civilian Condor in 1/72 was to convert ancient Revell Fw 200 C kit. Info about export schemes was scarce and Brazilian examples were totally new to me. Also, colour profiles showed Danish aircraft with black Lufthansa style cheat line and not red with blue trim as it should be. I still have not decided in which livery to build my kit. At the moment Abaitara or Arumani are in the lead with Dania or Jutlandia running close second.

As Thomo said, keep us posted. Cheers

Jure

[Admiral Puff]

It's all do-able - just a bit fiddly in places, e.g. the undercarriage will have to be scratch built, so I'll have to learn how to solder brass tubing (a skill I've never been able to pick up ...)! The bind of doing it in 1:48 is that an interior is vital. Those cabin windows are big enough such that any lack of interior detail is painfully apparent. Lots of fun ahead!

[Jure Miljevic]

I have been wondering why do you need to bother with new undercarriage than I realised military Condors had double wheels. Good luck and enjoy your build! Cheers

Jure

[Dave Fleming]

On 02/09/2017 at 11:00 PM, Admiral Puff said:

Jiri, that book has some good profiles covering all the Danish schemes. They are reliable - the artist, Juanita Franzi, is renowned for the research she puts into her work. Even the colours are OK, although that's very much subject to the printing process used. Sadly there aren't many photos of the BOAC scheme - the aircraft didn't survive long enough, and I suspect that people had other things on their mind at the time!

 

I only know of one photo - from my pov, the most intruiging question was 'did they actually get the RAF serial painted on g_AGAY before it crashed'!

[Caerbannog]

Interesting project. I once considered as well (as so many projects...). Will follow with interest on your build once it started. Thought about a simplified interior for the 1:72 Revell kit I have - as you say the windows are quite large...

[Admiral Puff]

I'm sitting in Bornholm as I type this. Just back from a trip to Berlin, where I had the chance to climb over the cabin replica, take lots of photos and measure everything to within an inch of its life. Heading back Down Under on Sunday, and will turn all that into a set of drawings when I get home. Stand by for more ...

 

Oh, and the Museum of Technology in Berlin is well worth a visit. I could have spent a coupe of days there without any problems!

[Max Headroom]

The latest FlyPast has an article on the Condor rebuild

 

http://www.flypast.com/the-magazine/back-issues/

 

Trevor

[Admiral Puff]

Thanks, Trevor - I'll chase that up.

[TonyTiger66]

I just discovered this thread; very happy to have found it !

 

I've had two of the Revell 1/72 kits as a planned double build for a while now. One is the Sindicato Condor boxing, the other has Luftwaffe and one Danish scheme.

 

I used to live and work in Denmark and became very interested in their aviation history. Really pleased when Revell brought out the civilian kits. Now living in Australia, I would like to build both Danish machines.

 

As with many here, I've been stalled with details of the passenger cabin; even in 1/72 it's easy to see in there (I have a similar stall with two MPM DC-2 kits). 

 

Also, I'm not really happy with the kit representations of the BMW 132 engines.

 

I think this might apply to 1/48 too; am I right in thinking that the only after market BMW 132 engines available are those by Vector (Russia) and those by Engines and Things (USA)?

 

The Vector ones look superb, but quite a financial outlay for me at the moment. The Engines and Things ones are cheaper. I've dealt with them before and was happy with service and what I received, but I've read here on BM that some of their engines are not much of an improvement on kit ones.

 

I can't find any photos of their BMW  132 engines. I want eight in total so for Vector it would be over AUD $100 with postage costs.

 

I'll get around to it eventually !! 

 

My questions here; could anyone recommend a donor kit that could provide the engines? It may be cheaper to buy e.g. four twin engine or two four engine 'donor' kits, than for me to buy the aftermarket engines.

 

Second question; has anyone used or do they know of photos of the Engines and Things BMW 132's? Do they look good?

 

Thanks @Admiral Puff for details of the book on exactly the aircraft I want to build  !!!

 

I think Mrs. T will buy that one for me for Christmas  .

 

Apologies to the OP for veering away from interior questions. Happy to edit.

 

Would there be any chance of sharing one or two of the interior pics Admiral? Does the book on the Danish types help with the style of upholstery and luggage racks etc?

 

Such aesthetically gorgeous aircraft. I'm so glad that they're building a replica. I followed the links above; such exacting work. All credit due to the German restoration team, absolutely incredible highest quality restoration and fabrication going on.

 

If only we could have a flying one, like the Junkers 52s  

 

Having recently read about a Constellation in private hands, the yearly costs, I guess it may be prohibitively expensive to run a flying example of the FW 200  .

 

Good luck with the conversion Admiral, it would be great to see it as a WIP here. I'm happy to loan/post you a set of 1:72 undercarriage parts if they will help as patterns for you to scratch build the 1/48 parts.

 

Best regards

TonyT

Edited September 20, 2017 by TonyTiger66
Correct engine number

[Admiral Puff]

Tony, I think the main problem with getting a flying FW-200 now would be the cost - effectively, it would be a ground-up replication. That's essentially what the Museum has had to do with their restoration, because their aircraft was so badly corroded when it surfaced that there was little that could be used other than for patterns. A flying replica would have to comply with modern airworthiness requirements, which I suspect wouldn't come cheaply. Just the same, it would be nice to see ...

 

I haven't seen the Engines and Things BMW 132s, but the Vector ones are gorgeous, and well worth laying out for if you can afford them. The props are another problem - no-one, to my knowledge anyway, does the two-blader in 1:48. I'll probably make a master and cast them. The undercarriage should be simple enough, using the Revell 1:72 one (which I have, thanks) as a reference and scaling up. Fortunately the wheels are easy - the Trumpeter wheels are actually too big for the military version, but just the right diameter for the civil. They only need to be widened slightly.

 

The Mulder/Ott book doesn't have much detail on the interiors of the Danish aircraft, but I'm given to understand that they were the same as the Lufthansa ones. That's how I'm approaching it, anyway - if I'm wrong, hopefully someone will come up with the goods to get things right. The fuselage section that I measured and photographed in the Museum is one that was recovered from Russia, and had been used as a garage before they got hold of it. Interestingly, it seems to have been built using components originally intended for an airliner, because the fuselage frames are set up for the installation of a civilian interior, i.e. it was one of the very early military versions of the aircraft.

 

I'm happy to share my pictures with anyone who wants them. The intention is to put together a set of drawings of the seats and interior fittings and a package of pictures to back them up. I'll post more when everything's done and ready to go.

[TonyTiger66]

Thanks Admiral,

That’s really useful and interesting information.

 

What a shame that it broke up like that during the recovery operation .

 

I went to the website in Norway, but the book isn’t there anymore. I wrote an email to them, querying if it’s possible to get a copy,  plus they have two more books that I would like,

 

Yours will be stunning (and huge!) in 1/48. The all orange aircraft is one to attract attention (which was the intention  ).

 

This scheme is very attractive too:

 

 

Source: Wikipedia UK - Public domain.

 

I wonder if the Soviet fuselage section is one of the Fuhrer’s personal aircraft and transport unit?

 

This book looks interesting in that respect:

 

https://books.google.com.au/books/about/Hitler_s_Squadron.html?id=eUgibPp3dwkC&source=kp_cover&redir_esc=y

 

You’ve helped me to see sense regarding the Engines. I hope I’ll be on Vector’s Christmas card list after I order eight !

 

I’m Wondering if the Falcon FW 200C canopy can be made to fit the Revell Civilian Models?

 

Now you’ve mentioned it; I’d better have a good look at the propellers and wheels too.

 

A 1/72 Trumpeter C-4 kit is a recent addition to the stash, to make a quite colourful Spanish one, but that’s another story.

 

Looking forward to seeing your 1/48 Condors .

 

All best regards

TonyT

[The Tomohawk Kid]

It's a real shame that the 2 Brazilian machines were broken up in 1950.

 

Thomo.

[Admiral Puff]

The Mulder/Ott book is available electronically - see http://www.europeanairlines.no/books/FW200/#/1/.

[rbeach84]

Man after my own heart... I have the Koster Condor kit and find it superior to the Trumpie so I also slated the Trumpeter to the conversion pile since converting to civil will correct or eliminate the problems (usual shape stuff...)

I too look forward to your project (and am following...)

Cheers!

Regards, Robert