Canberra TT18 question

[canberra kid]

Welcome to BM Akira. I'm on my way home from work, I will get back to you with my thoughts later. I'm sure James will want to pitch in too. 

John

[71chally]

3 hours ago, nabe3 said:

My name's Akira(first name) Watanabe(last) and my registration to the Britmodeller.com is complete only today.  First of all, thank you so much for all the British modellers who supported me on the TT.18's red(orange?) wing stripe question.  The topside photo of the grey TT.18 which was posted by "Canberra kid" on 14AUG17 shows exactly what was asked for, and I now have a very clean picture of the TT.18's wing stripe.  Frankly speaking, I did not know that the TT.18 had a towel rail aerial on the port inboard wing. Also, all the walkaround photos of the TT.18 provided on this site will surely help me a lot during my next project of the TT.18 in 1/48 scale. 

 

Could anyone kindly advice me which model kit is more recommended, either a Classic Airframe kit or an Airfix kit???  What are good/weak points of them?

 

Welcome to the forum Akira, good to see that it was a TT.18 that brought you here!

 

My personal opinion on the best base kit, for me is the Classic Airframes (CA) by far, in fact I would go as far as to say I wouldn't bother with the Airfix kit at all.

The CA kit is more accurate, especially around the cockpit and tail areas but the huge advantage for me is the panel lines and detail which is far more subtle than the Airfixs' toy like panel lines.

I'm guessing you have that you might have the CA TT.18 kit already?  If so you know that it comes with nice resin details for the cockpit and undercarriage, and the decals cover two 7 Squadron Canberras, the decals are very nice.

The advantage of the Airfix kit is that it is much easier to build, the CA kit requires extra work to be put in to prepare the parts, reducing the thickness of joining areas (such as the wing halves) and joining major parts such as the wings and tailplanes.  One correction that needs doing is to reduce the height of the nose wheel leg as it is too long and not right for that unique Canberra stance.

 

Now, John might have different opinions, and he has far deeper (bottomless) knowledge of the type and first hand references for dimensions etc.

[canberra kid]

Hello again Akira, the short answer to your question about which kit to go with would be the CA TT.18 kit it's not as easy a build as the Airfix kit but it is more accurate out of the box, that's not to say it does not need some extra detail adding, but it all depends how far you wish to go. Despite what I've just said, I do like the Airfix kit, it is much better for cutting up for modifications less expensive and easier to get hold of and one area where it is way ahead of any other kit or resin aftermarket set is the B.2 pattern wheels, which you will need for a TT.18. If you go down the Airfix route most of the corrections you will need to do are covered in my B.2 build here A B.2 for uncle Sam

 

John

[71chally]

1 hour ago, canberra kid said:

...and one area where it is way ahead of any other kit or resin aftermarket set is the B.2 pattern wheels, which you will need for a TT.18.

Hi John, you do get the B.2 style wheels in the CA TT.18 box.

[canberra kid]

30 minutes ago, 71chally said:

Hi John, you do get the B.2 style wheels in the CA TT.18 box.

You do James but they are not as nice as the Airfix ones

John

[nabe3]

Thank you John and James for your prompt replies regarding the differences between the two Canberra kits, Classic Airframes/CA and Airfix. I bought a CA kit (TT.18) lately in Tokyo, and a friend of mine will give me his Airfix kit within a week.  I plan to compare these two kits at first and I'll pick up one of them as a base kit for my Canberra project.  According to the comments provided from James and John, the CA kit seems to be better for my project, and most likely I will pick up the CA one.

 

I'm a member of a local aircraft modeling club named "Hora-Buro" and we have an annual model show in Tokyo every October.  Each year we have an assigned subject for the show, and this year's subject is "NATO v.s. Warsaw Pact (Cold War)", and so I'm currently working on a Hasegawa's F-104G in 1/32 scale with Belgium markings. 2018 will be the 100th anniversary of the RAF, and so our 2018's assigned subject will be the RAF aircraft.  That is the reason why my next project will be the Canberra TT.18 of No.7 Sqdn., which is VERY memorable a/c for me since I was able to photograph several TT.18s at St.Mawgan in 1974 and the yellow/black diagonal stripes were so impressive in my mind.

 

Please let me ask you additional questions in future when I have any further questions about the TT.18.  Thank you again.  Akira     

[canberra kid]

No problems Akria, we will be on standby for any questions you may have. We are always glad to help if possible.

John

[71chally]

You are right there John, the Airfix wheels are better. 

 

Akira, that is a wonderful story of how you managed to see the 7 sqn Canberras back in 1974, was it a special open day or just luck that you saw them?

I would love to see any of the photos you got of the Canberras, are they online anywhere?

 

One area that can be improved on both kits is the tailplane, Airfix got the tailplane to fuselage junction completely wrong, where as CA oversimplified it.

In reality the Canberra has an all moving tailplane for trim control.

 

One fix is to do what I did here, although there are simpler ways of doing it, this replicates how the Canberra tailplane is fitted in reality and would work with both kits.

 

Edited August 16, 2017 by 71chally

[canberra kid]

On the subject of the wheels James, one thing that non of the manufacturers have got right as far as I can remember apart from the original 1/72 Canberra kit is the fact that the back face of the wheel has the same pattern as the front. I'm not sure that any of the resin replacement wheels correct this either?

John

[nabe3]

I have another favour to ask of you. Could anyone provide me with good walkaround website which shows me sharp & clear pictures of wing (both upper and under surfaces) details of the Canberra B.2 or any other variants derived from the B.2 model.  I took walkaround photos of EB-57 Canberra in the US (refer to my website,  http://nabe3saviation.web.fc2.com/waEB57.html)  and I want to study "what are differences" between the British and the US Canberras in appearance especially its panel lines and rivet/screw layout on the surfaces.

 

Thank you James for your helpful information about the "tailplane/fuselage junction".  I noticed that the EB-57 mentioned above had the same style junction, and I'll put this junction style to some extent on my forthcoming Canberra model. 

 

Akira

[71chally]

On 8/11/2017 at 7:05 PM, canberra kid said:

Hi Andy and Akira

http://ipmscanberrasig.webs.com/apps/photos/album?albumid=15392479

http://ipmscanberrasig.webs.com/apps/photos/album?albumid=11695963

http://ipmscanberrasig.webs.com/apps/photos/album?albumid=12627333

http://ipmscanberrasig.webs.com/apps/photos/album?albumid=11294285

Regards

 

John

The links that John posted earlier are very useful, the forum has a good walkaround section of the TT.18 here,

WJ574 in the first walkaround has since been very nicely put back together and restored.

 

 

 

Akira, that is an excellent B-57 walkaround that you have done, and it certainly looks like you know how to put a model together!

Love the Wessex and Tracker!

Edited August 19, 2017 by 71chally

[Red Dot]

hi guys,

 

Are there any B2 or TT18s in museums in the UK?

 

Andy

[canberra kid]

Hi Akira, James and Andy

 

You beat me to it James! I have a few B.2 related walkrounds on my site the TT.18 and T.17/T.17A. As for the difference between the B.57 and the British Canberra, there are quite a lot, the closest to the EE Canberra is the B.57A but even though it looks very similar on the face of it. it is in detail very different. The basic fuselage is quite similar but there were modifications made to the skins to accommodate the rotary bomb bay door, and even more differences with the tandem seat B model. As for the wing, common to all the B.57's the wings were modified to accommodate the guns with differences between the 8x.50 cal. wing and the 4x20mm cannon wing as seen on the EB.57E. The detail on the CA kit is quite good overall, with just some minor errors in detail. AS for riveting, it's down to the modeler but the Canberra is a very clean aircraft with not much showing in the rivet line.

THere are a number of preserved TT.18's and B.2's about in museums in the UK. 

 

John     

 

[71chally]

My favourite TT.18, WJ639 is preserved at the Museum in Sunderland.  It's the only complete RAF TT.18 around, though there are some nose sections about.

There are a quite a few B.2s, and derivatives of about, Duxford being a good example.  T.4s are also good for reference, obviously ignoring the solid nose cone

Rather than list them all see here,

http://www.demobbed.org.uk/aircraft.php?type=302

 

[canberra kid]

Also on my site, these two albums 

http://ipmscanberrasig.webs.com/apps/photos/album?albumid=14513584

http://ipmscanberrasig.webs.com/apps/photos/album?albumid=12829679

There is also the FAA B.62 which is an export B.2, like a lot of export Canberra's they were fitted with the "big" wheels.  

http://ipmscanberrasig.webs.com/apps/photos/album?albumid=12613302

And the GAF Mk.20 which is essentially a B.2 with Avon 109's or in the case of early pre mod or the Mk.21 with Avon 1's they were also fitted post 109 mod with the "big" wheels

http://ipmscanberrasig.webs.com/apps/photos/album?albumid=12501357

http://ipmscanberrasig.webs.com/apps/photos/album?albumid=15650867

http://ipmscanberrasig.webs.com/apps/photos/album?albumid=15640919

 

John

[Red Dot]

7 hours ago, 71chally said:

My favourite TT.18, WJ639 is preserved at the Museum in Sunderland.  It's the only complete RAF TT.18 around, though there are some nose sections about.

There are a quite a few B.2s, and derivatives of about, Duxford being a good example.  T.4s are also good for reference, obviously ignoring the solid nose cone

Rather than list them all see here,

http://www.demobbed.org.uk/aircraft.php?type=302

 

thanks for this list James. There are quite a few aren't there!

 

Andy

[71chally]

I've had a better look at Akiras' site, what an amazing resource.

Superb walkaround sections, historic photos and excellent modelling skills, all set off with really good photography.

In case it was missed, it's here http://nabe3saviation.web.fc2.com/explanatione-fr.html

 

Just need to see the Canberra TT.18s on there now!

Edited August 19, 2017 by 71chally

[nabe3]

Thank you very much James and John for your great support on walkaround photos and informative advices on modeling.  I thinK I already have enough walkaround pictures for my Canberra project.  When I visited RAF St.Mawgan in August 1974, it was an airshow day at St.Mawgan. A British friend of mine obtained a photo permission for me to take pictures of Canberras of No.7 Sqdn on the flight line, and I was able to take pictures of two Canberra TT.18s in Grey scheme and two other TT.18s in Green/Grey camouflage. Two of them(WH856/Grey & WJ629/Camo) did not carry their sqdn marking on the fin unfortunately.  I was able to photograph several Canberra T.4s as well at the same time.

 

Yesterday, a friend of mine gave me an Airfix kit for my project.  Unfortunately, it was not a "B.2" kit but a "B(i).6/B.20" kit.  Please forgive me to ask you another question again this time. Can I use this "B(i).6" kit as a BASE kit for the TT.18???  I have poor knowledge about Canberra's variants, and so, I do not know exactly what are differences "in appearance" between Canberra B.2 and B(i).6.  I simply want to know if fuselage/wing parts of the B(i).6 kit are the same as the ones of the B.2 kit.  I don't care about the parts for the  gun pack and under-wing rocket pods of the "B(i).6" kit.  

 

Frankly speaking, I prefer Airfix kit as a base kit for my TT.18 project. I'm currently working on time/labor consuming Hasegawa's old F-104G kit in 1/32 scale and I'm fairly tired of model building now(honestly!), so I want to spend a little easier, smoother and stress-free life during my Canberra project(Ha-Ha!!).  Surface molding (panel lines, etc.) of the Airfix kit is NOT so bad as I was anticipated, fortunately, and I can live with it with some extra work.

 

I'm so glad to know that James liked my website, and I hope some of my walkaround photos on the website will help British modelers as well to some extent.

Looking forward to recieving your informative advices regarding the above-mentioned Airfix kits. Thanks in advance.

 

Akira

       

[canberra kid]

No problems Akira, we're glad to be of help! As for the Airfix kit, it sounds like you have the latest re-release of the kit, all the parts need should still be it the box for the B.2 as far as the difference between the B.2 and B.6/B.(I)6, in the kit there isn't too much, all you will need is the B.2 wheel and the engine compressor fan with the short bullet fairing. the rest of the kit will be the same. Again if you take a look at my B.2 build it highlights what you need to do to make it more accurate for a B.2. In reality the differences between the Two Mk's are quite a lot but that needn't concern you for this build. 

A B.2 for uncle Sam

 

John 

[71chally]

I believe that you still get the two sets of wheels in the B.6 kit as well.

The most obvious things to deal with are the fin fillet radius and the tailplane junction issue.

What will you do for the TT.18 parts?  Alleycat do a set (https://www.aviationmegastore.com/rushton-winch-targetsleeve-target-containersect-7205-magna-models-m7205-aircraft-modelling-accessories/product/?action=prodinfo&art=18229), if you don't want to seperate the Classic Airframes kit.

 

Akira, the Canberra photo opportunity sounds like it was fantastic, will these photos make their way to your site?

Did you ever get to St Mawgan in the 1980s/90s?

 

I have just realised that I have used your site in the past, for a Skywarrior build, you were lucky to catch them like you did!

 

[Red Dot]

Hi Akira,

 

are you doing the 1/48 or 1/72 Airfix kit? The alley cat set is £25 for the 1/48 version and I can get it for you then bring it across to Japan if you can wait until October. Let me know

 

andy

 

[nabe3]

As always, thank you very much for your continual suppot.  I'm so glad to know that an Airfix's Canberra "B(i).6" kit can be used as a base kit for my TT.18 project.  I do have a Classic Airframes' Canberra TT.18 kit(1/48), so I plan to use some Classic Airframes parts as well, including the Rushton target system, the engine compressor fan and the B.2 wheel, etc..  So, I don't plan to buy an Alleycat parts(set).  In any case, thank you James for your Alleycat information and thank you Andy for your kind consideration.  I've never visited St.Mawgan again after 1974, James.

 

I plan to start building my TT.18 sometime in September. I'm pretty sure that I'll have some additional questions during the process of my TT.18 building, so please let me ask you further questions on this Britmodeller.com. Naturally, I will upload some photos of my TT.18 on my website as soon as it is completed (hopefully by the end of this year), and I will post the notice on this Britmodeller page.  Will do my best efforts on the TT.18 project in order not to disappoint you all.  I do hope I can meet you all at the Telford show in 2018, as I'm seriously considering my first visit to the Telford show next year. Thank you again.   

[71chally]

33 minutes ago, nabe3 said:

I do have a Classic Airframes' Canberra TT.18 kit(1/48), so I plan to use some Classic Airframes parts as well, including the Rushton target system, the engine compressor fan and the B.2 wheel, etc..

You won't need to use the wheels, the Airfix kit includes the B.2 wheels and they are better than the CA ones.

 

I would say that the CA canopy is a better representation of the shape, and is worth using as well.

 

be great to meet you.

[nabe3]

Thank you James for your helpful advice.  I surely will keep it in mind.  Akira 

[nabe3]

On ‎2017‎年‎8‎月‎20‎日 at 18:03, canberra kid said:

No problems Akira, we're glad to be of help! As for the Airfix kit, it sounds like you have the latest re-release of the kit, all the parts need should still be it the box for the B.2 as far as the difference between the B.2 and B.6/B.(I)6, in the kit there isn't too much, all you will need is the B.2 wheel and the engine compressor fan with the short bullet fairing. the rest of the kit will be the same. Again if you take a look at my B.2 build it highlights what you need to do to make it more accurate for a B.2. In reality the differences between the Two Mk's are quite a lot but that needn't concern you for this build. 

A B.2 for uncle Sam

 

John 

I started building the Airfix Canberra(1/48) at the beginning of 2018.  I have a question, and could you help me with the following questions?  What is the color of (1) interior surface of the landing gear wells, (2) landing gear struts and (3) inner surface of the flaps???  According to the Airfix kit instruction, they all are "Aluminum", however, judging from the walkaround photos you provided, the landing gear struts look light grey (almost white??) and the inside surface of the flaps look light grey too.  I'm quite confused, and I'd appreciate it greatly if someone could kindly help me in this matter.  I plan to finish my Canberra as TT.18 with grey upper surface operated by No.7 Sqdn in the mid-1970s.