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mackem01

Converting a DH4 to a DH9A, markings advice...

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Just picked up an old AMT DH4 kit today for two quid, thought why the heck not. I'm not too sure but it looks like its the American version with the Liberty engine.

Is it possibe to wrestle this into an interwar DH9A? The shape looks close to me but I'm no expert so thought I would throw it out to the BM massive. Also, does

anyone no of any DH9A plans in either 72nd or 48th?? Any help/info would be very much appreciated,

 

T.I.A.....

Edited by mackem01

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You can but it is a lot of work.  Alan W Hall used the then-new Airfix DH 4 to do the same thing.

 

 

The wings, rear fuselage and tail are basically the same but you need to move the pilot aft and reconfigure the nose.  Others - many others - know more but those are the basics.

 

 

In 1/48 you will have a real looker.

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The Soviets made an unlicensed copy of the DH 9a; the Polikarpov R-1.

 

Eastern Express reboxed an older manufacturer's kit of this some years ago; the kit is 1/72.

 

I had one; lots of flash but once cleaned up very buildable. It doesn't take much to turn it into a 'licenced' DH 9a depending on the engine you would like.

 

This is the kit:

 

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/160879-maquette-mq-7211-polikarpov-r-1

 

Someone has done this on Britmodeller already and the model looked good. I'm not sure how to search for the thread.

 

Edit: I just found that Eastern Express issued it as a Liberty Engined DH9a :

 

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/139798-maquette-mq-7206-de-havilland-dh-9a

 

I would love to make a DH 9 (not an 'A' ) in 1/72, but apart from an expensive resin kit, rare fuselage conversion and hard to find vac form, it's a gap in the market.

 

Good luck; beautiful aeroplanes :)

 

Best regards

TonyT

 

PS: Way out of my price league, but there's a beautiful DH 9a in 1/32 by Wingnut Wings.

 

PPS: There's also a Roden DH 9 in 1/48 that you could convert.

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Unfortunately, the wings aren't the same. DH4: span 42' 4 5/8", area 434 sq ft; DH9A: span 45' 11 3/8", area 486 3/4 sq ft. When Alan Hall did that conversion, he used the wings from a Frog Wallace (the Wallace's wings were the same as the Wapiti's, which were almost identical to the DH9A's except that for the main production run they were made from metal rather than wood). On the plus side, the US DH4 that the AMT kit represents already has the pilot's cockpit moved back. I don't know a lot about American DH4s but I suspect the radiator and cowling for the Liberty may not be the same as on the DH9A, and that you'ld need to do some work on the nose.

 

There are two Windsock Datafiles on the DH9A, with drawings in 1/72 and 1/48:

https://www.windsockdatafilespecials.co.uk/139-amc-dh9a-ninak-volume-one-306-p.asp

https://www.windsockdatafilespecials.co.uk/141-amc-dh9a-ninak-volume-two-322-p.asp

 

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In my opinion you can do this. You can also buy Ardpol DH 9 (resin). 

 

I have DH9A (Polikarpov R1) and I am intending  to convert it to Spanish Civil War DH9. There is a huge work on wings required, since both chord and span had to be reduced. But some months ago I did similar work (chord reduction) on lower wing of SH Polikarpov RZ (which has wrong in model by some 5 mm) and it went OK, so I do hope it is "doable". I am not sure how fast I will do that - I am a bit overdone with biplanes...

Ragards

J-W

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Converting a DH4 to a DH9A is certainly the hard way. In 1/72 the Polikarpov R1 / DH9A is the route I went. The DH4 is a far better donor kit for a DH9 conversion. This recent thread in the WW1 section contains the method I used.

Afraid PB have screwed the photos but I am in the process of rescuing them.

 

Regards, Steve

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On 08/08/2017 at 5:55 PM, Dave Fleming said:

Iirc the DH9A had a longer wingspan as well

Dave, was the span added at the wing tips or was the centre section widened?

AWFK10, thanks for the datafile links, will do more research before I order.

And thanks to all for your input, keep it coming.

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Need to check, but I suspect it was centre section.

 

Note the kit is a DH4B, fuselage is not far from the DH9A

Edited by Dave Fleming

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OK, so I've been giving the kit a good once-over this morning and I do believe that this is a goer. The kit dates from the early '70's but still has alot of things

going for it:

PROs: after photgraphic comparisons it seems the pilot's cockpit is in the correct postion; despite it's age it shows some nice detail radiator and Lewis guns

are useable; moulding is clean and dry fit shows it to be less trouble than I thought; well moulded and useable Scarff mount. It even comes with a couple of frames for mounting the upper wing.

CONs: wheels are solid plastic, and I would like to see some spokes; fabric pattern on the wings and tail is slightly overdone; prop is "iffy". Most importantly, the coaming around the gunner's cockpit needs to be redone.

So one final question, if the wingspan of a 9A is 45' 11" - what should the span of the kit be? (and how do I work it out?).

 

T.I.A.....

 

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((45x12)+11)/48 will give you the size in inches. Multiply that by 2.54 to get centimetres.

 

so 29.16cm or 11.48 inches

 

the next question is 'is that overall wingspan including dihedral?'

Edited by Dave Fleming

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There are some photos of the RAF Museum's DH9A here that might come in useful. 

 

I've dug out Vol 1 of the datafile, which unfortunately is the one with all the plans in 1/72 (I do have Vol 2 but it's buried under a load of other stuff somewhere). The span of one upper wing measured in a straight line from centre section strut to tip is 92mm on the drawing, which would be 138mm in 1/48. The chord of the wing is just over 24mm, or 36mm scaled up to 1/48. The chord of a DH4 wing in 1/48 scale (from the plans in the DH4 Datafile Special) is 35mm - which surprised me, I thought the difference would be more than that. Length of one DH4 wing, again in a straight line from centre section strut to wing tip, is 126mm. So you'ld need to extend each wing by 12mm. The span of a DH9A centre section should be about 16mm in 1/48, maybe a bit more. It looks to be exactly the same as the DH4's, which is what I'ld expect.

 

Caution: it's not unknown for me to make a mess of measuring things :P

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@Dave  & AWFK10, thanks for confirming the wing measurements and the equation for doing so. It's a great help.

Looking at some pictures I can also assume the lower mainplane was lengthened too. Modification of the kit wings

should be straightforward(!) spanwise, but chordwise the kit is at 35mm and I'll just have to live with that. Still, a

blind man on a galloping horse and all that.      Cheers guys.

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So, I have decided to go ahead and give this project a go. Today's question / discussion is for the more commercially savvie amongst us.

I would like to know what items of aftermarket are out there in 1/48th that will help this project along, I'm thinking of smaller stuff like guns,

a Scarff mount, bombs etc. I've used AM stuff before but not relevant to this era so I'm looking to you guys to shine a light on my

ignorance.

 

Edit: Windsock Datafiles just ordered

 

T.I.A.....

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Aeroclub used to make exactly what you need but sadly that doesn't seem to be an option any more. A quick trawl of the Hannants site turns up a couple of Lewis guns:

 

 https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/ED648204https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/ED648205

 

but that seems to be about it. Others may know more? Another idea would be to buy an F2B kit - the Eduard one's currently on special offer. These sprue shots are of the Profipack  but the weekend edition would still give you the injection moulded Lewis gun, Scarff ring and bombs (though not a Vickers, as it was mounted internally on the F2B) and if you find you enjoy modelling 1920s aircraft, you'll have a Bristol Fighter to build another time.

 

A couple more online references:

 

http://www.boxartden.com/gallery/index.php/Profiles/Aircraft-Profiles/Britain/Between-the-Wars/De-Havilland-DH9A-Post-War

http://www.boxartden.com/gallery/index.php/Profiles/Aircraft-Profiles/Britain/Between-the-Wars/Bristol-F2B-Brisfit-Post-War-237

 

 

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Aeroclub stuff turns up regularly on Ebay, usual for daft prices, but sometimes reasonable. White metal or PE scarf rings, Vickers and Lewis guns are relevant , as are wheels.  There's a notice on this forum that you can not currently contact him to ask what he has left in stock, and he is semi-retired, but he has not definitively ceased trading.

 

Very nice guns can currently be had from Gaspatch. much nicer than Eduard's IMHO. Eduard are then only other people I know that produce aftermarket Scarff rings. If you're reduced to buying a kit for spares, I think Roden Be kits are your best bet. They have more spare guns and bombs, and also propellors, than most Eduard kits.

 

Paul.

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Believe it or not, this is still on the go! I'm at the stage now where I'm thinking about some colour and the machine I've decided to finish it as is J7124 of 30sqn based at Hinaidi in 1924. It's finished in overall silver with red/orange wing and tail tips. looking at pictures of similar machines there appears to be a colour difference on certain panels in namely the two on the fuselage sides behind the gunner and the start of the serial - is it a trick of the light or actually a different colour? would the silver be a dull doped silver and does anyone know of a close representation from a rattle can? Moving on to the red, I assume it's going to be a faded roundel red - is that a dangerous assumption and again is there a rattle can equivalent?

 

Edited by mackem01

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7 hours ago, JWM said:

Many thanks for that JWM. The machine I'm trying to do is on that sheet which seems to illustrate that it's one overall doped colour.

 

 

 

 

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I am away from my references at the moment. But IPMS USA magazine from 1973(?) did this conversion.
I will be home in early October and post the article here.

 

Regards,

Tony from Brisbane 

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A DH-9A has  greater wing chord to a DH-9 or 4. I believe off hand  that it is  6 inches, but may be 9,  in addition to a DH-9A having greater span. Don't let any of this put you off however. The AMT DH-4 is such a solid lump of plastic that you'll need to be doing a lot of sanding and filing anyway. I'd suggest  doing a cut and shut to put in the chord extension firs at  whatever the  thickest part of the wing is, then extending the span. I've begun  doing the same thing to make a Westland Walrus from a Roden DH-4  and  Now that I've admitted it in public, I am commited to completing it.

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3 hours ago, matti64 said:

 DH-4  and  Now that I've admitted it in public, I am commited to completing it.

Now that's what I call putting a couple of things well on the butchers block!!  This being my most ambitious conversion to date I decided to ignore the chord issue - I'm not

that skilled. I'll be happy if it has the general characteristics of the particular bird I'm modelling

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Hi gang, I've ground to a halt again and I need some advice if you have the time. I'm looking for some 48th scale 62" (x4), and some 25" (x2) roundels interwar roundels

with the lighter shade of blue. If anyone has any ideas whatsoever then I would love to hear them.

 

M.T.I.A.......

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Well, you could print them on white decal sheet, it worked fine for my DH-9 and  F.K.8.  It only needs some puzzling with the diameter, some printers ( my Brother)are not that users friendly....😅

 

Why not go for scratching the model, as I read this topic, it is less work that converting an old AMT-kit, I know I build one...:-)

 

Good luck,

 

JohnHaa

 

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