Totally Mad Olivier Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 2 hours ago, JeroenS said: Taking into account that you're leaving the car itself "bare metal" I would say black is a good choice. I agree with Jeroen, the tyres should be Black (or more precisely Black Grey) imho. But it is your choice, Harvey... I had less problems with this question, as my 806 was painted, represented just before the Milano G.P on that 04/09/1927. In fact, if I were you (it would be great, meaning that I would have very great skills...), I would represent the car as it was on our photo 2 of the research and scratch thread: The car was not yet painted, the rivets were visible on the fairing, the exhausts were not wrapped (and probablyt Steel or Iron), but the seat cushion was ever in its final color, and the tyres were... tyre color... This is just my way to see things. I like the idea that you represent the car at a moment of its elaboration. Mine was represented finished, and with some weathering due to the trials in the previous days. Now it's up to you my friend. Cheers, Olivier 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PROPELLER Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 1 hour ago, harveyb258 said: I may paint 2 red, 2 black for a direct comparison For me, no no comparison possible! They must be black! Red wheels will look as a toy... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, PROPELLER said: For me, no no comparison possible! They must be black! Red wheels will look as a toy... Yes, I agree with Dan too. After the amazing job you did for this build, any casting error, such red color on wheels would not be a good idea imho (you could of course change it later). But maybe we are too "classic"... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codger Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 The finest hands and minds on the forum are having a very meaningful and well thought out discussion. Not being in those categories, I reserve the right to stubbornly maintain my position of no paint at all. I have a deep love of beautiful mechanical objects in their natural material appearance. To me this whole model's character is defined by that. Mr H has wrought a work of art. It has that indefinable hand-built appearance that gives it such character. Yes- brass spokes are not prototypical - but the beauty they add is worth their salvation in my view. I feel paint would take this out of the 'art museum display' category (and elevates it beyond what we mostly do here) and make it a very accurate replica of an automobile - what we generally strive for. Enough of my babble - it will be whatever its creator wants it to be and rightly so! It is a stunning achievement as is and I adore it as such. I also love the well-presented opinions expressed here. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 10 minutes ago, Codger said: I have a deep love of beautiful mechanical objects in their natural material appearance. To me this whole model's character is defined by that. Mr H has wrought a work of art. It has that indefinable hand-built appearance that gives it such character. I also agree with this, it is another option but very coherent too. This build is a masterwork and leaving it totally unpainted, full metal, creates a timeless look, like a David or Rodin statue. On the other hand, Codger is too humble imho, as he is one of the best modelers in Brit, he showed his huge talent with his amazing Rolls Royce... Now the decision is in your mind and hands, Harvey... We trust in you, anyway! Cheers, Olivier 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codger Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 3 minutes ago, Olivier de St Raph said: This build is a masterwork and leaving it totally unpainted, full metal, creates a timeless look, like a David or Rodin statue. Now the decision is in your mind and hands, Harvey... We trust in you, anyway! Cheers, Olivier THIS was EXACTLY what I was trying to say - said so much more easily and eloquently than I could ever fashion. Thank you my friend... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 The car would also look better if the lateral flaps were still a part of the bodywork and the louvres on the flaps in front of them would stand in a vertical row and not in a slanted one. As a sculptor I know about aesthetics and maybe my own version will become a bit idealized. But Harvey choose the realistic way and we should accept the facts. The Codognato painting was created in cooperation with the designers and it shows red wheels and a dark red seat. Consequence is necessary regarding a reconstruction and it should not be the first priority if we like it or not. During the Monza test drives everybody knew, that the car will get an overall Fiat-red painting before the later race and it makes no sense to choose a different color and repaint it later on. If we only had our b/w photos and the (wrong) information that the 806 was painted black, noone would doubt that it was a black car. Many greetings! Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 12 hours ago, Codger said: THIS was EXACTLY what I was trying to say - said so much more easily and eloquently than I could ever fashion. Thank you my friend... You're very welcome, Mr C (and thanks btw for the kind words). That said, if I understand very well your point of view, as I said above, I would personally choose the photo 2 option, the body unpainted but wheels, tyres, seat cushion etc. represented as they had to be on the day the car was presented. I don't think the wheels were ever painted Red (maybe I'm wrong), so I would rather paint them Dark metal (I admit I don't like very much the Brass look for the wheels and spokes, but yet, this is very personal). I am sure that doing so, Harvey's masterwork would keep its timeless look (I am a bit more reserved on the use of bright colors such Red, definitely, from the moment the body is bare metal*). Anyway, Harvey, you will ask 10 modelers and will have necessarily different opinions. This build is yours and the decision belongs only to you. After reading all our personal opinions, I am sure you will take the right decisions, whatever they will be. Cheers, Olivier * for Harvey's build, I precise. Look at the beautiful leather Red seat cushion Hannes showed in the post# 4916 (sic!) in the p. 197 of the research and scratch thread. For me, high skilled modelers are artists and it is a good thing (and it is natural) that they get different results and do different choices. Turner had his style, Monet had his style, Renoir had his style (I choose some of my favorite masters in painting) and it is very well so. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harveyb258 Posted June 7, 2020 Author Share Posted June 7, 2020 Hello gents and thank you all for your opinions and kind words. I did have a long and carefully thought out response for you all, taking me all morning to create..... then, one little swish of the cat's tail and it's gone forever. Bless her. I will re-do it later on today, I'm just not in the mood at the moment. Cheers, H 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 We feel so so sorry, dear Harvey! We know how it hurts to lose a beloved family member! RIP, dear cat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 I am sorry, but I am not sure I understood, Harvey (and Hannes). You lost forever your cat, Harvey, that's right?? Cheers, Olivier 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 Dear Olivier, it was a very sad misunderstanding. I first believed something happend to the model. I feel sorry und I beg pardon! Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 No problem, Hannes... If I understood, Harvey's cat is dead. If so, I think about you, my friend, and I understand that you feel too sad now to go on with your build and with posting on Brit. All the best my buddy, Olivier 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeroenS Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 I think Harvey meant his cat stepped on the keyboard, deleting the post. At least I hope that's what he meant. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PROPELLER Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 So, it's less serious, for me, great animals lover... Sorry Harvey, but a trouble on a model is for a mad scratch builder a habit isn't? Dan. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 21 minutes ago, JeroenS said: At least I hope that's what he meant Me too, of course, as it would be just a setback... I admit my english is not good enough to understand all Harvey's english turn of phrase (often highly imaged and tipically british - love that... when I understand 😂 -) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harveyb258 Posted June 18, 2020 Author Share Posted June 18, 2020 Hello gentlemen. Please excuse my late reply... I get easily distracted. lol. Anyway, thank you for your kind words, but it appears you misunderstood me.... my cat deleted the post with her tail, that's all. On 6/6/2020 at 3:57 PM, Codger said: I have a deep love of beautiful mechanical objects in their natural material appearance. As do I, my friend and it breaks my heart to have to paint certain items.... it should be a cardinal sin, punishable by flogging. Don't worry though, Chas, after the wheels are done, I promise you nothing but hot, oily metal, with a bit of leather thrown in. Okay then, wheel colour- the general consensus is black, following my own gut feeling. Hannes mentions the Codognato/Fiat collaboration as reference to red. I too, thought they were red on the painting. I must admit though, I never really paid much attention to it for details reference, instead, just enjoying it for what it is... a piece of art. So, I had to have another look... I think we can safely say that they're black, so that's confirmation enough for me... black they will be, then. Not that clean and shiny, though. Update time- Another major milestone in this project has now been reached, with all 4 wheels fabricated (minus paint and air valves), bolted on and supporting the weight with great ease..... Needless to say, I'm over the moon with the result. Don't be too alarmed at the excessive looking camber angle btw .... loose nuts. Well, that's all for now, folks. More soon. Thanks for following chaps. Cheers, H 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codger Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 The excitement of seeing this in near-final condition causes that wonderful impatience at this stage. A supreme achievement even at this incomplete stage. I grudgingly agree to black wheels - my peers are right and so are you. With the tires and seat in muted colors it will strike the perfect note of a museum piece. To further match the painting, too bad you can't model the zoomy speed streaks from the wheels and coach...but what proportions. I notice your garden needs tending Dear Harvey - but DON'T TOUCH it until this is in its case... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 Looks amazing Harvey. Blue/black question also regards the Delage. That car too had definitely black wheels in 1927. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PROPELLER Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 What a beauty Harvey! The charm of bare metal is awesome... And one more a time, black wheels of course. Dan. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 A real piece of art, dear Harvey! I finally agree with you, the painting shows black rims. Maybe the tradition was altered for this car. However, the most difficult works are done now imho and a lot of detailing works will need your attention. So what´s next? Engine completion , steering system, ignition, gearbox with pedals, brake system followed by the scoop, exhaust system and seat? It´s a great pleasure to attend your wonderful work! Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 Wow. I just looked at my own copy of the Codognato painting inside the book " Trent´anni di corse" by Severo Boschi . I compared it with your version and discovered something odd. Your version seems to be repainted at several spots and some outlines were altered by an unprofessional "artist" (maybe someone from the Protar team😅 ) Of course my version is closer to the original painting and it shows a red seat! Not a black-reddish seat! What we see on the pic above is box art for Italy´s most famous falsification company- Protar! Unfortunately it´s not possible for me now to post the original pic from Hungary but Roy owns the same book and it would be very nice if he could publish the original painting in this thread. All the best! Hannes 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 Amazingly beautiful, Harvey! You are now close from the finish line and, like Pietro Bordino, you will win! Cheers, Olivier 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 4 hours ago, Hannes said: Unfortunately it´s not possible for me now to post the original pic from Hungary but Roy owns the same book and it would be very nice if he could publish the original painting in this thread. Hopefully this is clear enough. It's 3 pages A4 so I have to photograph it. If a better version is required I'll photograph it tomorrow in daylight. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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