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Sepecat Jaguar GR1 double build Revell/Airfix 1/48


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On ‎1‎/‎4‎/‎2020 at 5:07 PM, Fritag said:

That’s the port wing spoiler that is somewhat raised Massimo.

 

Roll control in the Jag is a mixture of differential tailplane and asymmetric wing spoiler (spoiler deploys only on the down-going wing) the extent of spoiler deployment (and tailplane movement) is proportionate to the degree of control column displacement.

 

That looks like an air show take off in a clean Jag; could be that the aircraft is just starting to roll to the left.  I can’t see any differential tailplane - so I guess the spoiler deploys before the tailplane begins to move (I can’t remember - I only drove them........).

 

Interestingly - If you look closely at the other take off photo you posted - a Jag with a combat load,  you can see that the starboard spoiler is very slightly raised.

 

It’s unlikely the pilot is intending to roll to the right during this take off; so he’s probably just flicked the control column momentarily very slightly to the right, maybe to make a slight correction/keep the aircraft level, and/or maybe without really noticing he’s done it (some pilots are notorious stick 'stirrers').  There’s no visible differential tailplane.

 

If you’re depicting a take off, Massimo it would be correct to leave the spoilers flush with the wing - unless you want to deliberately model an aircraft starting a turn - but then you’ll need to think about the tailplane too.  If you wanted to you could model one of the spoilers very slightly displaced as in the above photo.  But then you’ll end up having to explain why........(But at least now you know ;))

 

 

 

IIRC take off flap is 20 degrees.  That’s 20 degrees for the inboard flap sections.  The outboard flap sections (as you can see in the photos) are always at less of an angle - but I don’t know what angle the outboard flaps are at when the inboard ones are at 20 degrees (we only used to think in terms of one (the inboard) flap angle - too difficult for muppet pilots to do otherwise....) .  I know that the inboard flap travel was 0 to 42 degrees and the outboard was 0 to 25 degrees so it may well be that on take off the outboard ones were at about 12.5 degrees.  But that’s (logical) speculation.

 

 

 

 

It was a looong time ago but we Riggers didn't set the flaps up by angular displacement but as a dimension taken from the 'pen nib fairing' (Trailing edge between the inner & outer flaps).

 

For some strange reason ISTR that the I/b flap was something like 450mm at max extension, I can't recall the o/b flap dimension. If you're really interested I can see if I can dig out the AP guide for flap set-up

 

John

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5 hours ago, giemme said:

Impressive job, Massimo! :clap:

 

One question, though: how did you cut the plastic templates for the rescribing?

TIA

 

Ciao

Hi Giorgio,

I drilled a hole in a styrene strip and finished them by file.I referred to some drawings I found on another modeller's  wip online.

3 hours ago, 12jaguar said:

For some strange reason ISTR that the I/b flap was something like 450mm at max extension, I can't recall the o/b flap dimension. If you're really interested I can see if I can dig out the AP guide for flap set-up

 

John

I see. For now I should be ok, thanks for the explanation. 

What about the slats?

Could they be positioned just in or out or did they have any intermediate positions?

Thanks in advance 

Massimo

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Looking absolutely brilliant so far! Very impressive work on the flaps and slats too.

 

I love Jags; I remember many happy hours watching from the little wooden fence at the end of Coltishall's runway. And the low level flights along the coast over Salthouse and Kelling. A great time for spotting and photos. Another premature withdrawal from service like the Harrier. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Massimo said:

Hi Giorgio,

I drilled a hole in a styrene strip and finished them by file.I referred to some drawings I found on another modeller's  wip online.

I see. For now I should be ok, thanks for the explanation. 

What about the slats?

Could they be positioned just in or out or did they have any intermediate positions?

Thanks in advance 

Massimo

Hi Massimo

 

Slats are In, Fully out and Combat (between the 2) again these were set by measurement not angle. I'm sure Freitag will be along to elaborate on Slat position for take off (I assume fully out)

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1 hour ago, 12jaguar said:

Hi Massimo

 

Slats are In, Fully out and Combat (between the 2) again these were set by measurement not angle. I'm sure Freitag will be along to elaborate on Slat position for take off (I assume fully out)

Hi John,

from the pics in my possession, it looks like the slats on take off were fully out.

Thanks for the infos shared!!!

Massimo

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Hi mates,

a small update on the Starboard spoiler, with hinges and relevant housings on the wing.

4ENH0Gq.jpg

JUPXhdj.jpg

MImVIJ6.jpg

That's it.

Tomorrow back to work and consequently...less time for modelling!☹️

Good night!

Massimo

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14 hours ago, Massimo said:

Just one more question :

This kit will depict oneofthe aircrfts in Desert Storm colours.

I haven't found any pictures of a walk around with these paint scheme.

I imagine the wings were painted desert pink everywhere, even their flaps retracting systems. Can anyone confirm this?

 

I can only find photo's of the upper surfaces, which were fully painted.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/61758703@N07/25097597316/in/album-72157629488809029/

 

I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing. If the flaps were extended to be able to paint the upper panels, then I would assume the underside was painted too.

 

Nice to see these back in action Massimo.

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12 hours ago, limeypilot said:

Hi Massimo, Happy New Year!

Lovely work here and great to see it back.

What happened to the Buc by the way?

 

Ian

Happy New Year to you too Ian!!!

The Buccaneer's finished,but The project'sbeen put aside for a while.

Here above are the links.

Last year 's been a busy one and I didn't spend much time modelling or surfing BM, but that's part of the game and many of us go through this!.

Once I got the resin wheels,I just finished the Buccaneer.

During these Christmas Holidays I finally got some time for myself and, having to choose among several projects which had been left aside, I opted for these Jags.

I've seen your Battle's been primed and now most of your additions are hidden, but she looks gourgeous!!!

I look forward to to see some more paint on her!!!

Ciao

Massimo

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15 hours ago, 12jaguar said:

Slats are In, Fully out and Combat (between the 2) again these were set by measurement not angle. I'm sure Freitag will be along to elaborate on Slat position for take off (I assume fully out)

:)

 

Nice to have a reason to dredge the memory banks and see how much space is still clogged up with such stuff.......

 

As John says, the slats are fully out for take off.  Nominally 23 degrees FWIW.  But I’ve no idea how that is measured and it was interesting to hear that the engineers adjusted the flaps by reference to a linear measurement rather than an angle. Makers sense. I wonder if I knew that once?

 

The slats were automatically fully out when any flap was deployed, and from the pilots perspective one simply selected the flaps down and the slats did their own thing.

Edited by Fritag
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3 hours ago, Fritag said:

:)

 

Nice to have a reason to dredge the memory banks and see how much space is still clogged up with such stuff.......

 

As John says, the slats are fully out for take off.  Nominally 23 degrees FWIW.  But I’ve no idea how that is measured and it was interesting to hear that the engineers adjusted the flaps by reference to a linear measurement rather than an angle. Makers sense. I wonder if I knew that once?

 

The slats were automatically fully out when any flap was deployed, and from the pilots perspective one simply selected the flaps down and the slats did their own thing.

Hi Fritag

 

grey cells working overtime for me, was 'Combat' auto generated dependent on IAS and AOA?

 

John

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3 hours ago, 12jaguar said:

grey cells working overtime for me, was 'Combat' auto generated dependent on IAS and AOA?

I think that's right John.

 

As I recall, with combat slats in automatic the slats deployed as the AOA increased.  I've checked and think the slats came out (to 9 degrees compared with 23 degrees for full slats) when the AOA increased above 5 alpha and retracted when below 4 alpha, subject to being automatically retracted at higher indicated speeds (580 kts plus, but it depends on the Mod state).

 

I don't remember ever operating the combat slats in anything but the automatic mode.  In particular I don't remember ever manually selecting combat slats in or out - but I'm not sure now whether that reflects the SOPs/Mod state in the late 80's/early 90's or if it's a failure of memory.......indeed I can't really remember ever worrying (or even thinking) about the position of the slats at all.......

 

Steve 

Edited by Fritag
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Good evening fellas,

after several dry fit tests and some more sanding and filing looking for a good fit, tonight I finally decided it was time to glue things together.

So I started with the slats, then the flaps and finally the starboard spoiler slightly raised.

Once the wings block was completedI thought it best to glue it to the fuselage. This process will be done in several steps as the alignment needs some attention. I satred from the back edge, clamping the wings block to the fuselage and dropping some Tamiya green cap glue into the recesses. Tomorrow I'll move the clamps towards the front and take care of the wings' front edge.

Here below a few pictures.

maJGblE.jpg

bzbAyqJ.jpg

RqDexOA.jpg

Dz8oYmo.jpg

YfsoOFG.jpg

l3rtB8l.jpg

ST2UruN.jpg

8kCazUr.jpg

PA1PoIZ.jpg

Time to go to bed now!

Good night!😴

Massimo

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On 1/7/2020 at 4:17 PM, Fritag said:

I think that's right John.

 

As I recall, with combat slats in automatic the slats deployed as the AOA increased.  I've checked and think the slats came out (to 9 degrees compared with 23 degrees for full slats) when the AOA increased above 5 alpha and retracted when below 4 alpha, subject to being automatically retracted at higher indicated speeds (580 kts plus, but it depends on the Mod state).

 

I don't remember ever operating the combat slats in anything but the automatic mode.  In particular I don't remember ever manually selecting combat slats in or out - but I'm not sure now whether that reflects the SOPs/Mod state in the late 80's/early 90's or if it's a failure of memory.......indeed I can't really remember ever worrying (or even thinking) about the position of the slats at all.......

 

Steve 

Kind of (if you squint very hard & don’t look too closely) like the automatic [“Handley Page”] slats on the Swordfish and many other contemporary types.  My Dad only flew Stringbags in training (Barracuda frontline), so many of the airframes he experienced were a wee bit tired by the time he got airborne in them; in some the slats used to stick, so would either deploy asymmetrically (disconcerting but apparently nothing more, at least in a Swordfish) or with a loud “CLUNK” that scared the living daylights out of him the first time. 
 

I think to classify the Swordfish version as “combat” slats would be stretching an already tenuous comparison too far, however.

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Just had a massive catch up on this thread Massimo which I can't recall seeing before, but just may be having a dose of ARTB (Age Related Thread Block).

 

These are superb builds. I have fond memories of the Jaguar from my first job where I worked in the MOD Procurement Exec. For a brief while I worked in the Jaguar project office. Many visits to Warton and Preston to see these beauties being manufactured and the unforgettable smell of the paint shop close to the end of their time at the BAC works (then). Also recall a visit to Weybridge where we went to see some of the Recce pods being produced at the time - maybe Vinten, not sure but I know the centre section revolved to reveal the cameras.

 

I'll be following this one now!

 

Terry

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Goodmorning and thanks for the kind comments!

LastnightI used some CAglue to fill some gaps in the junction between the wings and the fuselage and sanded them off.

This morning Icheckedthe panellines and junctions with Tamiya panelaccent black liquid and tis is what she lookslike. Somemore CA glue here and there, but it'squite right.Soon Rosie the riveter willbe needed for the wings.

Here a couple of pictures.

sh5JGxT.jpg

FKdD2xQ.jpg

Ciao

Massimo

 

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15 hours ago, Terry1954 said:

maybe Vinten, not sure but I know the centre section revolved to reveal the cameras.

I used to deal with theses when I worked at Vintens after I demobbed.

1 hour ago, Massimo said:

Tamiya panelaccent black liquid

I've seen this being used this way on a couple of builds, what are we looking for?

Looking fantastic Mas, good work.

 

Stuart

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