giemme Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Impressive job, Massimo! One question, though: how did you cut the plastic templates for the rescribing? TIA Ciao 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12jaguar Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 On 1/4/2020 at 5:07 PM, Fritag said: That’s the port wing spoiler that is somewhat raised Massimo. Roll control in the Jag is a mixture of differential tailplane and asymmetric wing spoiler (spoiler deploys only on the down-going wing) the extent of spoiler deployment (and tailplane movement) is proportionate to the degree of control column displacement. That looks like an air show take off in a clean Jag; could be that the aircraft is just starting to roll to the left. I can’t see any differential tailplane - so I guess the spoiler deploys before the tailplane begins to move (I can’t remember - I only drove them........). Interestingly - If you look closely at the other take off photo you posted - a Jag with a combat load, you can see that the starboard spoiler is very slightly raised. It’s unlikely the pilot is intending to roll to the right during this take off; so he’s probably just flicked the control column momentarily very slightly to the right, maybe to make a slight correction/keep the aircraft level, and/or maybe without really noticing he’s done it (some pilots are notorious stick 'stirrers'). There’s no visible differential tailplane. If you’re depicting a take off, Massimo it would be correct to leave the spoilers flush with the wing - unless you want to deliberately model an aircraft starting a turn - but then you’ll need to think about the tailplane too. If you wanted to you could model one of the spoilers very slightly displaced as in the above photo. But then you’ll end up having to explain why........(But at least now you know ) IIRC take off flap is 20 degrees. That’s 20 degrees for the inboard flap sections. The outboard flap sections (as you can see in the photos) are always at less of an angle - but I don’t know what angle the outboard flaps are at when the inboard ones are at 20 degrees (we only used to think in terms of one (the inboard) flap angle - too difficult for muppet pilots to do otherwise....) . I know that the inboard flap travel was 0 to 42 degrees and the outboard was 0 to 25 degrees so it may well be that on take off the outboard ones were at about 12.5 degrees. But that’s (logical) speculation. It was a looong time ago but we Riggers didn't set the flaps up by angular displacement but as a dimension taken from the 'pen nib fairing' (Trailing edge between the inner & outer flaps). For some strange reason ISTR that the I/b flap was something like 450mm at max extension, I can't recall the o/b flap dimension. If you're really interested I can see if I can dig out the AP guide for flap set-up John 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massimo Posted January 6, 2020 Author Share Posted January 6, 2020 5 hours ago, giemme said: Impressive job, Massimo! One question, though: how did you cut the plastic templates for the rescribing? TIA Ciao Hi Giorgio, I drilled a hole in a styrene strip and finished them by file.I referred to some drawings I found on another modeller's wip online. 3 hours ago, 12jaguar said: For some strange reason ISTR that the I/b flap was something like 450mm at max extension, I can't recall the o/b flap dimension. If you're really interested I can see if I can dig out the AP guide for flap set-up John I see. For now I should be ok, thanks for the explanation. What about the slats? Could they be positioned just in or out or did they have any intermediate positions? Thanks in advance Massimo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Hi Massimo, Happy New Year! Lovely work here and great to see it back. What happened to the Buc by the way? Ian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Riot Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Looking absolutely brilliant so far! Very impressive work on the flaps and slats too. I love Jags; I remember many happy hours watching from the little wooden fence at the end of Coltishall's runway. And the low level flights along the coast over Salthouse and Kelling. A great time for spotting and photos. Another premature withdrawal from service like the Harrier. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12jaguar Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Massimo said: Hi Giorgio, I drilled a hole in a styrene strip and finished them by file.I referred to some drawings I found on another modeller's wip online. I see. For now I should be ok, thanks for the explanation. What about the slats? Could they be positioned just in or out or did they have any intermediate positions? Thanks in advance Massimo Hi Massimo Slats are In, Fully out and Combat (between the 2) again these were set by measurement not angle. I'm sure Freitag will be along to elaborate on Slat position for take off (I assume fully out) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massimo Posted January 6, 2020 Author Share Posted January 6, 2020 1 hour ago, 12jaguar said: Hi Massimo Slats are In, Fully out and Combat (between the 2) again these were set by measurement not angle. I'm sure Freitag will be along to elaborate on Slat position for take off (I assume fully out) Hi John, from the pics in my possession, it looks like the slats on take off were fully out. Thanks for the infos shared!!! Massimo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackem01 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Glad to see these moving again, your level of detail is astounding. I'm so glad Santa made you get them off the shelf! Keep up the brilliant work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Magnificent couple of updates Massimo - pure craftspersonship and utterly enthralling detail on this flaps. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massimo Posted January 6, 2020 Author Share Posted January 6, 2020 Hi mates, a small update on the Starboard spoiler, with hinges and relevant housings on the wing. That's it. Tomorrow back to work and consequently...less time for modelling!☹️ Good night! Massimo 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phone Phixer Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 14 hours ago, Massimo said: Just one more question : This kit will depict oneofthe aircrfts in Desert Storm colours. I haven't found any pictures of a walk around with these paint scheme. I imagine the wings were painted desert pink everywhere, even their flaps retracting systems. Can anyone confirm this? I can only find photo's of the upper surfaces, which were fully painted. https://www.flickr.com/photos/61758703@N07/25097597316/in/album-72157629488809029/ I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing. If the flaps were extended to be able to paint the upper panels, then I would assume the underside was painted too. Nice to see these back in action Massimo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massimo Posted January 7, 2020 Author Share Posted January 7, 2020 12 hours ago, limeypilot said: Hi Massimo, Happy New Year! Lovely work here and great to see it back. What happened to the Buc by the way? Ian Happy New Year to you too Ian!!! The Buccaneer's finished,but The project'sbeen put aside for a while. Here above are the links. Last year 's been a busy one and I didn't spend much time modelling or surfing BM, but that's part of the game and many of us go through this!. Once I got the resin wheels,I just finished the Buccaneer. During these Christmas Holidays I finally got some time for myself and, having to choose among several projects which had been left aside, I opted for these Jags. I've seen your Battle's been primed and now most of your additions are hidden, but she looks gourgeous!!! I look forward to to see some more paint on her!!! Ciao Massimo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 15 hours ago, 12jaguar said: Slats are In, Fully out and Combat (between the 2) again these were set by measurement not angle. I'm sure Freitag will be along to elaborate on Slat position for take off (I assume fully out) Nice to have a reason to dredge the memory banks and see how much space is still clogged up with such stuff....... As John says, the slats are fully out for take off. Nominally 23 degrees FWIW. But I’ve no idea how that is measured and it was interesting to hear that the engineers adjusted the flaps by reference to a linear measurement rather than an angle. Makers sense. I wonder if I knew that once? The slats were automatically fully out when any flap was deployed, and from the pilots perspective one simply selected the flaps down and the slats did their own thing. Edited January 7, 2020 by Fritag 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12jaguar Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 3 hours ago, Fritag said: Nice to have a reason to dredge the memory banks and see how much space is still clogged up with such stuff....... As John says, the slats are fully out for take off. Nominally 23 degrees FWIW. But I’ve no idea how that is measured and it was interesting to hear that the engineers adjusted the flaps by reference to a linear measurement rather than an angle. Makers sense. I wonder if I knew that once? The slats were automatically fully out when any flap was deployed, and from the pilots perspective one simply selected the flaps down and the slats did their own thing. Hi Fritag grey cells working overtime for me, was 'Combat' auto generated dependent on IAS and AOA? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, 12jaguar said: grey cells working overtime for me, was 'Combat' auto generated dependent on IAS and AOA? I think that's right John. As I recall, with combat slats in automatic the slats deployed as the AOA increased. I've checked and think the slats came out (to 9 degrees compared with 23 degrees for full slats) when the AOA increased above 5 alpha and retracted when below 4 alpha, subject to being automatically retracted at higher indicated speeds (580 kts plus, but it depends on the Mod state). I don't remember ever operating the combat slats in anything but the automatic mode. In particular I don't remember ever manually selecting combat slats in or out - but I'm not sure now whether that reflects the SOPs/Mod state in the late 80's/early 90's or if it's a failure of memory.......indeed I can't really remember ever worrying (or even thinking) about the position of the slats at all....... Steve Edited January 7, 2020 by Fritag 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massimo Posted January 8, 2020 Author Share Posted January 8, 2020 Good evening fellas, after several dry fit tests and some more sanding and filing looking for a good fit, tonight I finally decided it was time to glue things together. So I started with the slats, then the flaps and finally the starboard spoiler slightly raised. Once the wings block was completedI thought it best to glue it to the fuselage. This process will be done in several steps as the alignment needs some attention. I satred from the back edge, clamping the wings block to the fuselage and dropping some Tamiya green cap glue into the recesses. Tomorrow I'll move the clamps towards the front and take care of the wings' front edge. Here below a few pictures. Time to go to bed now! Good night!😴 Massimo 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbudde Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 Looking great Massimo. Yes, time to go now, but well: Just watched John Carrpenter's "The Fog" here on ZDF Neo. So maybe in an hour. Cheers and Good night also! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Great job Massimo - she's looking splendid! Ciao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 On 1/7/2020 at 4:17 PM, Fritag said: I think that's right John. As I recall, with combat slats in automatic the slats deployed as the AOA increased. I've checked and think the slats came out (to 9 degrees compared with 23 degrees for full slats) when the AOA increased above 5 alpha and retracted when below 4 alpha, subject to being automatically retracted at higher indicated speeds (580 kts plus, but it depends on the Mod state). I don't remember ever operating the combat slats in anything but the automatic mode. In particular I don't remember ever manually selecting combat slats in or out - but I'm not sure now whether that reflects the SOPs/Mod state in the late 80's/early 90's or if it's a failure of memory.......indeed I can't really remember ever worrying (or even thinking) about the position of the slats at all....... Steve Kind of (if you squint very hard & don’t look too closely) like the automatic [“Handley Page”] slats on the Swordfish and many other contemporary types. My Dad only flew Stringbags in training (Barracuda frontline), so many of the airframes he experienced were a wee bit tired by the time he got airborne in them; in some the slats used to stick, so would either deploy asymmetrically (disconcerting but apparently nothing more, at least in a Swordfish) or with a loud “CLUNK” that scared the living daylights out of him the first time. I think to classify the Swordfish version as “combat” slats would be stretching an already tenuous comparison too far, however. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 More superlative detailing work Massimo. Very nice indeed! Ian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry1954 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Just had a massive catch up on this thread Massimo which I can't recall seeing before, but just may be having a dose of ARTB (Age Related Thread Block). These are superb builds. I have fond memories of the Jaguar from my first job where I worked in the MOD Procurement Exec. For a brief while I worked in the Jaguar project office. Many visits to Warton and Preston to see these beauties being manufactured and the unforgettable smell of the paint shop close to the end of their time at the BAC works (then). Also recall a visit to Weybridge where we went to see some of the Recce pods being produced at the time - maybe Vinten, not sure but I know the centre section revolved to reveal the cameras. I'll be following this one now! Terry 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 That's looking really impressive Massimo, excellent modelling! Keith 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coneheadff Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Fantastic Massimo!!!! What you have done out of those kits is very impressive Alex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massimo Posted January 10, 2020 Author Share Posted January 10, 2020 Goodmorning and thanks for the kind comments! LastnightI used some CAglue to fill some gaps in the junction between the wings and the fuselage and sanded them off. This morning Icheckedthe panellines and junctions with Tamiya panelaccent black liquid and tis is what she lookslike. Somemore CA glue here and there, but it'squite right.Soon Rosie the riveter willbe needed for the wings. Here a couple of pictures. Ciao Massimo 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courageous Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 15 hours ago, Terry1954 said: maybe Vinten, not sure but I know the centre section revolved to reveal the cameras. I used to deal with theses when I worked at Vintens after I demobbed. 1 hour ago, Massimo said: Tamiya panelaccent black liquid I've seen this being used this way on a couple of builds, what are we looking for? Looking fantastic Mas, good work. Stuart 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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