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Aardvark

Not retouched Chengdu J-10 with Woshan WS-10A «Taihang»?

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Hi, all!

 

Maybe somebody saw a photo not retouched number on a fin of the front line (not a prototype) of Chengdu J-10B with Woshan WS-10A «Taihang» ?
 Chengdu J-10B with Lulka AL-31F at which I saw not retouched numbers on a fin, Chengdu J-10B with Woshan WS-10A «Taihang» didn't meet....

 

And still question of a camouflage of J-10.

Instructions recommend to paint Chengdu J-10 in GS Aqueous Hobby Colour 61 tops and bottom GS Aqueous Hobby Colour 308 + white . GS Aqueous Hobby Colour 61 is gray with a yellowish shade, but on a photo of Chengdu J-10 from above is painted in gray with a bluish shade... maybe someone saw 

Chengdu J-10B in live can also clear what at it actually a shade of gray - yellowish or bluish?

 

Maybe take place to be both options of a gray shade by the real airplanes? Then what pattern?

 

B.R.

Serge

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2 hours ago, AaCee26 said:

Hi Serge,

 

It was at a Chinese air show last year: http://www.airliners.net/search?aircraft=65841&display=detail

 

Bluish grey on top, more like neutral grey on bottom and serial "10537".

 

Cheers,

 

AaCee

AaCee, I saw a photo of this airplane on the Internet.
It Chengdu J-10B with AL-31F!

As visually Chengdu J-10B with AL-31F differs from Chengdu J-10B with WS-10 it is possible to see on this photo:
J-10prototypes.jpg

Above on a photo Chengdu J-10B prototype (!!!!!!) with AL-31F, below  Chengdu J-10B prototype (!!!!) with WS-10. Do you see a difference in jet nozzles?

Photos front line  Chengdu J-10B with WS-10 on the Internet:

Chinese-J-10B-fighter.jpg

 

p1bh7m6021182g18qh1f9bbu61ej21.jpg

 

4Zb0CAo.jpg

 

but as you see on them number on a fin is retouched!

 

Concerning a camouflage Chengdu J-10 in gray color with a bluish shade I maybe unconditionally would agree with your statement, but how to be with this photo Chengdu J-10B with WS-10:

 

J-10B-with-WS-engine.jpg

?????

B.R.

Serge

P.S.

Funny, but China jet engine Woshan WS-10A «Taihang»  is based on technology  the civil jet engine CFM International CFM56 which is in turn based on the military jet engine General Electric F101 which was installed on Rockwell B-1. And  GE F110 fighter engine was installed on F-14, F-15 and F-16 is a derivative of the F101!

 In turn in the Lulka AL-31  which was  installed on Su-27 some constructional decisions with AL-21 which in turn is based on all known jet engine General Electric J79 which was installed on the F-4 Phantom and F-106 Delta Dart are possibly applied!

Edited by Aardvark

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On 30/07/2017 at 09:06, Aardvark said:

AaCee, I saw a photo of this airplane on the Internet.
It Chengdu J-10B with AL-31F!

As visually Chengdu J-10B with AL-31F differs from Chengdu J-10B with WS-10 it is possible to see on this photo:
 

Above on a photo Chengdu J-10B prototype (!!!!!!) with AL-31F, below  Chengdu J-10B prototype (!!!!) with WS-10. Do you see a difference in jet nozzles?

Photos front line  Chengdu J-10B with WS-10 on the Internet:Chinese-J-10B-fighter.jpg

 

but as you see on them number on a fin is retouched!


 

Concerning a camouflage Chengdu J-10 in gray color with a bluish shade I maybe unconditionally would agree with your statement, but how to be with this photo Chengdu J-10B with WS-10:

 

On 30/07/2017 at 09:06, Aardvark said:

AaCee, I saw a photo of this airplane on the Internet.
It Chengdu J-10B with AL-31F!

As visually Chengdu J-10B with AL-31F differs from Chengdu J-10B with WS-10 it is possible to see on this photo:

 

 

Hi Sarge,

 

I stand corrected with the engine. During the show I got impression that the aircraft shown had the WS-10 engine. As I now have browsed a couple of hours it seems it was 17th airframe of first batch while Taihang was in the last ones.

 

In the photo with aircraft with Taihang engine it is in hard light while the other one is in indirect. It certainly look quite a lot like USN gull gray but still in my eyes (!) with a bluish hue.

 

BTW - Trumpeter J-10B gives for prototype "1035" colour call IJN grey Gunze H16/35, Vallejo 907, Model Master 1731 and Humbrol 146 for top surfaces.

 

Interesting subject and you have clearly made your homework!

 

Cheers,

 

AaCee

 

PS: And not only engine but also in case of J-10 part of the software originating from IAI Lavi...

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1 hour ago, AaCee26 said:

 

Hi Sarge,

 

I stand corrected with the engine. During the show I got impression that the aircraft shown had the WS-10 engine. As I now have browsed a couple of hours it seems it was 17th airframe of first batch while Taihang was in the last ones.

 

In the photo with aircraft with Taihang engine it is in hard light while the other one is in indirect. It certainly look quite a lot like USN gull gray but still in my eyes (!) with a bluish hue.

 

BTW - Trumpeter J-10B gives for prototype "1035" colour call IJN grey Gunze H16/35, Vallejo 907, Model Master 1731 and Humbrol 146 for top surfaces.

 

Interesting subject and you have clearly made your homework!

 

Cheers,

 

AaCee

 

PS: And not only engine but also in case of J-10 part of the software originating from IAI Lavi...

1.

"During the show I got impression that the aircraft shown had the WS-10 engine."

 

How I see my eyes, on a foto:

 

http://www.airliners.net/photo/China-Air-Force/Chengdu-J-10B/4049035/L?qsp=eJxtjTsOwjAQRO8ytRvIRygdaSih4AKr9QKWQmKtt0gU5e4YR6KiG82bzwqeRpPZ7ksUdEhCyi84RFJ6J3QrKCgrPaynFHiPVfWxcT9wkVH0P0LXNqf64JAmtX7JB55MzswSTTx2/6pe9IskcXl%2B5p3ciaK3olG12fchxYHKhhiFAdv2AesvPp4%3D

 

aircraft "10537" this is J-10B with AL-31F.

 

3.

"Trumpeter J-10B gives for prototype "1035" colour call IJN grey Gunze H16/35"

 

Gunze H16 in Trumpeter J-10B instruction is error:

h16_1.jpg

true is Gunze H61:

GUNZE-Sangyo-Mr-Hobby-Aqueous-Color-H61-

 

....and in Trumpeter J-10B instruction very many other error!   ;)

B.w. in Trumpeter J-10B, WS-10 correct only  outside but in inside Trumpeter WS-10 is incorrect:

https://defence.pk/pdf/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.militaryparitet.com%2Feditor%2Fassets%2Fnew%2F01gfhyt.jpg&hash=cf9ce69a1afd759e33851d5e3938256e

2.

"In the photo with aircraft with Taihang engine it is in hard light while the other one is in indirect. It certainly look quite a lot like USN gull gray but still in my eyes (!) with a bluish hue"

 

But how I see my eyes Gunze H61 with not a bluish hue*!

________________

* - this precisely acceptable word? Because in Russian.... :):):)

 

4.

"Interesting subject and you have clearly made your homework!"

 

Yepp, this subject arose not from scratch!
Before asking these questions here at a BM, I saw open parts of the Internet on Russian, English and Chinese. Of course, if I found answers to the questions, I wouldn't set them here! Because if the person can't solve a problem at the level, then he becomes a part of this problem.

 

Unfortunately, at the level I can't answer these questions, perhaps on BM someone will help? 
  By the way the greatest number of information on the Chinese airplanes arrives from the Pakistani forum

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chengdu-j-10-multirole-fighter-air-craft-news-discussions.3218/page-572

  In the same place it is possible to esteem interesting a discussion about operational readiness of the Chinese jet engines:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russian-officials-reveal-j-31-engine-and-describe-sales-to-china.220635/

 

Or "Aviadarts-2017" which is perhaps passing now in China where participation of Chengdu J-10B is declared:

 

something will clear?

 

B.R.

Serge

 

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Good evening, Serge,

 

1. I was trying to say with "I stand corrected" that I was wrong with the #10357 engine. And after that just wondering why I had got another idea. At least it is the most documented J-10B from modeller's point of view.

 

Displayed information told that #10357 is a J-10B multirole fighter etc. without a word about the engine. Same with the leaflet about J-10A and J-10S. One was not available for J-10B.

 

2. I was thinking should I call this grey with hue, tone or shade and thought hue as the most appropriate. Unfortunately I have no idea of possible connection in Russian! I was commenting the colour of the picture, not H61. It is closer to the lower surfaces of the 10357 in my eyes. I'm not familiar with Gunze colours but for my eyes this bluish upper surface colour resembles  somehow but not exactly USN Compass Grey in factory fresh aircraft like F/A-18

 

4. Here we never know what others know especially if we don't know other's track record in the discussion. At least I have learned a lot during this threat - thanks for that!

 

I agree that the Pakistan discussion forum is great. Much better than for example Key-forum. I'm visiting Pakistan one at least weekly but this engine issue never reached my brains :( 

 

There are plenty of open questions like J-20 engine etc. related to Chinese modern arms. Relationship between L-15 and Yak-130 from modelling point of view and so on.

 

Let see what is shown at Avia-Darts. At least earlier nice pictures of Chinese aircraft have been seen after it. Yesterday Inner-Mongolian parade did not help at all related to J-10.

 

Cheers,

 

AaCee

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22 hours ago, AaCee26 said:

I was trying to say with "I stand corrected" that I was wrong with the #10357 engine. And after that just wondering why I had got another idea.

Sorry, but the English not my language from the birth. But now it is clear to me that you wrote earlier.

 

22 hours ago, AaCee26 said:

At least it is the most documented J-10B from modeller's point of view.

I agree, but this no original China product, because she have

Russian jet engine. Me need 100% China made product! :):):)

 

22 hours ago, AaCee26 said:

Unfortunately I have no idea of possible connection in Russian!

I'm just kidding! But in Russian this word is valid when reading on letters conformably from the most known Russian idiom. :):):)

 

22 hours ago, AaCee26 said:

At least earlier nice pictures of Chinese aircraft have been seen after it. Yesterday Inner-Mongolian parade did not help at all related to J-10.

Avia-darts only started...photo reports and articles in magazines from the journalists accredited on aviadarts as I think will appear in a month or two.

 

B.R.

Serge

 

 

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Any ideas what appearance the a throttle and stick the engine in cocpit J-10 has?

 

B.R.

Serge

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Photo J-10B from Aviadarts-2017:

4fe9d0aely1fi7oi93u9jj20m80es3ym.jpg

2009-04-30-Porky_Pig.JPG

???????

Resurse photo:

http://dambiev.livejournal.com/939625.html

but China show new version J-10B - Wild Weasel:

DG3QfLBUIAAlNHp.jpg

DG3QlcXUAAErGxN.jpg

DG3Qjc2UIAAoSmD.jpg

DG3QhVxUwAAgAwy.jpg

DG2W3TzUQAAtzXW.jpg

Resurse photo:

http://afirsov.livejournal.com/248692.html

 

B.R.

Serge

 

P.S. Target made in China on Aviadarts-2017:

59458595gy1fi9v7xntn8j21jk0t8dp1.jpg

Described very interesting story in this context about F-16 
A. Firsov in the LiveJournal:

http://afirsov.livejournal.com/247609.html
"In 1975 at an air show in Paris there was our quite representative delegation, including A. Yakovlev and the Chief marshal of aircraft, the commander-in-chief of the Air Force of Pavel Kutakhov. Among premieres of salon there was also American F-16 pilot still - YF-16 which then for the first time showed advantages of thrust-weight ratio more unit. Right after YF-16 separation vertically "candle" left up, and then I did rectangular "loop"... Jaws then at all "understanding" fell off including at our delegation.
After aviadisplay in a chalet, behind a glass of "tea", representatives of our aviation industry led by Yakovlev discussed how to struggle with this "infection" and what to answer with... Only Kutakhov told: "Quietly men! In case of the war in Europe we "will take out" all NATO airfields in 20 minutes, and from ground this "freak" with such air inlet will never fly up!""

 

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Not absolutely it is clear, on the air inlet 

DIpYVrWXYAETAqc.jpg

the real emblem of a squadron or the Chinese photographer thus marks a photo personal watermark?

.... and at them shades of colours have really changed or it is so the camera has shoot?

B.w., in the forefront aircraft  number as is read "20813" (?), but it J-10C and he on with AL-31F but not with Woshan WS-10A «Taihang»!

Resurse all J-10C photo:

https://afirsov.livejournal.com/254190.html

 

B.R.

Serge

 

P.S.

Here,

DIhcJxWVwAAUdoM.jpg

almost like in a RAF Valley:

IMG_7847800.jpg

:):):)

 

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Hi Serge,

 

I think that this white emblem on the intake side is related to forthcoming Chinese movie "Sky Hunter".

 

In ca. 1:46 this video may have J-10 control column? 

Cheers,

 

AaCee

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On 08.09.2017 at 9:40 PM, AaCee26 said:

 

I think that this white emblem on the intake side is related to forthcoming Chinese movie "Sky Hunter".

Thanks Dear AaCee, I saw a trailer of this movie in the Chinese segment YouTube too, but didn't begin to write about it in this  topic, thinking that interest in him is lost.

On 08.09.2017 at 9:40 PM, AaCee26 said:

 

In ca. 1:46 this video may have J-10 control column? 

I can't formulate yet why, but it seems to me that it not J-10 control column.

 

B.R.

Serge

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