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turnerdad

Early Hurricane I advice needed, any knowledgeable folk able to help?

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Hi, I've received a commission to build a model of Hurricane I L1690. This was the aircraft that the clients grandfather soloed in on the 13th February 1939, and I would like to discover a few facts if possible regarding its configuration at that time. I'm pretty certain it would have had the Rolls Royce ejector stacks as these were fitted from L1547 onwards, but can anyone absolutely confirm this? My refs don't seem to be very reliable.

My second question is regarding the propeller fit. According to my research L1690 would have been delivered with the Watts 2 bladed prop, but as I understand the new 3 bladed DH prop was retro fitted to earlier machines from January 1939, so it is conceivable it had that at the time.

Can anyone advise, help?

Many thanks  

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Dave Wadman aka @tango98 may well know more,  but without a photo..... who knows.

 

This is L1940, post Munich  crisis, 3 Sq not sure of date. 

 

Wiki says 3 sq

Quote

Hawker Hurricane I March–July 1938; July 1939 – April 1941,

  so I presume this is summer 1939,  unless it's really late July  38?

 

PS

Quote

Mason Hurricane book,  L1940 3 Squadron Kenley -39

 

2527541716_bdf7872519_o.jpgHurricane by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

here's a couple more of 3 Sq which are always worth a look.

2525590932_1d5fb9662f_o.jpgHurricane I by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

3559753440_21aa4c4904_o.jpgHurricane mk.I by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

Plenty of Hurricanes in France  still have the Watts 2 blade prop.  The above show what was front line standard in 38/39

If I can get to my books OK (don't ask..)  I'll have a browse and  see if  I can spot anything else.

 

EDIT Mason, Hurricane 1990 edition

Quote

L1690, No.1 Sq Tangmere, 11-38, crashed at night 2 miles NW Tangmere, 26-6-39

 

from the dates, I'd suggest the colour pics above are a useful guide

 

here's L1639

L1639.gif

so L1690 may have had a venturi

 

short film

 

 

What kit are you using?

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

2527541716_bdf7872519_o.jpg

 

What a gorgeous photo - hand coloured do we think or original perhaps.

I do notice that the roundels on the fuselages of both machines have been modified from some larger - earlier scheme.

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6 minutes ago, BIG X said:

 

What a gorgeous photo - hand coloured do we think or original perhaps.

I do notice that the roundels on the fuselages of both machines have been modified from some larger - earlier scheme.

 

The roundels were repainted from A to B type during the Munich Crisis, see pic of L1639 above for original scheme.

 

 

No, I believe these are all early colour,  and these as well,  quite possibly all by the same photographer?

 

2527521628_c192e57e81_o.jpgSpitfire Mk.I by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

8665161030_e6b802c223_o.jpgGloster Gladiator  1938. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

9737831400_e561c00eb4_o.jpgGloster Gladiator,1939. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

3826579694_18c0b738f8_o.jpgGladiator II by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

4162926294_e147e96029_o.jpgFairy Battle Mk.1 by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

this is think is from another source

2527522818_4df64f6a34_o.jpgSpitfire  Mk. I by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

 

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Fantastic photos - especially the Gladiators - real colour - so rare for the time and the subject.

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4 hours ago, turnerdad said:

Hi, I've received a commission to build a model of Hurricane I L1690. This was the aircraft that the clients grandfather soloed in on the 13th February 1939, and I would like to discover a few facts if possible regarding its configuration at that time. I'm pretty certain it would have had the Rolls Royce ejector stacks as these were fitted from L1547 onwards, but can anyone absolutely confirm this? My refs don't seem to be very reliable.

My second question is regarding the propeller fit. According to my research L1690 would have been delivered with the Watts 2 bladed prop, but as I understand the new 3 bladed DH prop was retro fitted to earlier machines from January 1939, so it is conceivable it had that at the time.

Can anyone advise, help?

Many thanks  

Do you know what unit he was on when he soloed? It would have probably been a training unit. Would help with the markings.

 

Selwyn

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Surely he "soloed" in the sense of "first solo flight" in a Tiger Moth or similar?

L1690 is recorded as being with 3 Sqn on 19 May 1940.  (specifically with a flight of 601 attached to 3)

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=fKV2BQAAQBAJ&pg=PA61&lpg=PA61&dq=hurricane+l1690&source=bl&ots=nMluhGseIo&sig=Z_WXNY5sy1hxhkQ3zK_u_5B3Wc0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjG4fWQtZvVAhWDV7wKHWIoCpAQ6AEIIjAA#v=onepage&q=hurricane l1690&f=false

It seems unlikely to have gone from an OTU to a front line squadron? (Although stranger things have happened)

Hurricanes were being delivered to squadrons in France in 1940 with Watts propellers so it is quite possible that it was so fitted.

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Peeps, I'm blown away by the response, thankyou so much. Markings not an issue (sorry, should have said with hindsight), as its a wireframe model! 

Will continue to research, but I think it's more than 99% certain that It would have had the Watts prop. I shall pass on the research to my client and fo from there. And massive thanks again, all of you. 

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As I’m in the midst of reorganising my ‘office’ I can’t easily access my files but the following might be of help.

At time of production, L1690 would have had the revised rudder and ventral ‘keel’ beneath the lower rear fuselage and a ‘pole’ type aerial mast, the later style masts began appearing in early to mid-1939. As for two bladed versus three bladed propeller, as the DH three blade prop was first trialled on L1562 on 29 August 1938 with the first Hurricane to enter squadron service with the DH unit being L1780 in January 1939, it's possible but unlikely IMHO, that L1690 may have been fitted with a DH unit by the time she was lost in June 1939.

The venturi versus pitot tube installation began very early in Hurricane production and although she was lost early in her life I'd guess that by that time she likely had a pitot rather than a venturi. The same is true for the ‘kidney’ versus ejector style exhaust system; if you can find period photos of serials close to and close after L1690 that is likely the best indicator you could get.

Once I can get access to my files again I’ll check through my Hurricane Mk 1 ‘mods’ lists and see if I can dig up anything else that may be of use.

 

 

HTH

Cheers

Dave

Edited by tango98

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Thanks Tango!!! Didn't know she was lost later in the year. I think because this model is for someone who has a direct connection with that particular machine, it makes it all the more important to at least make a massive attempt to "get it right". That's what happens when people like us who have a genuine interest in history are asked to look into things like this, I feel hugely respectful. Like the 97 year old ex Lanc nav I'm looking after at a care home, 7 Sqn Pathfinder, shot down by a Fw190, POW etc. 3 of his fellow crew members were killed. Such sacrifice.

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Glad I could be of help and it's no wonder that they are referred to (and rightly so IMHO) as 'the greatest generation.'

With reference to your mention of 7 Sqn and its Pathfinder duties did you know that there is an excellent Pathfinder collection up at Wyton?

You can check them out at http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafbramptonwyton/history/pathfindercollection.cfm

Well worth visiting.

 

Cheers

 

Dave

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