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1/48 & 172 - Percival Proctor Mk.I/II/III/V & Vega Gull by Dora Wings - 1/72 & 1/48 released - new boxing 1/48 Proctor I


Homebee

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  • 2 weeks later...

Released - ref. DW72004 - Percival Vega Gull (military service)

Source:  https://www.facebook.com/1929101897320378/photos/a.2014888442075056.1073741833.1929101897320378/2162393263991239/?type=3&theater

And in box review:

http://www.hyperscale.com/2018/reviews/kits/dw72003reviewjb_1.htm

 

32748927.jpg

 

V.P.

Edited by Homebee
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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/2/2018 at 9:21 AM, fightersweep said:

Not in stock yet, but showing £13.00 at Hannants. I'm pretty happy with that for what's in the box. 😊

Wow.  Only 13 notes.  Not bad at all.  Got my eye on that nice red civil one.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just noticed that the kit in Czechovlak Marlkings is identified as a Proctor, while the kit in “military markings” is identified as a Vega Gull. Does anyone know if there is any difference in the plastic parts of  the two kits or is just a matter of markings, and if the parts are the same is that correct? IAW are the Proctor and the Vega Gull identical. Given John Adams involvement I would expect any differences to be well catered for. Just ordered my Proctor, which will be finished in RAF markings, and I will certainly be getting that really nice Vega Gull in civil markings when it’s available, just wondering if the Vega Gull in military marking is different ( other than decals) so as to warrant a third in the collection.

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Also waiting for the civil Vega Gull! Proctors had different internal arrangement and rear windows were different. Early Vegas had an angular three part windscreen, later model and Proctors had a curved windscreen. The Proctor IV and post war V had  a wider fuselage if I remember correctly. 

Cheers, Paul

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On 3/19/2018 at 5:27 PM, Roger Holden said:

Probably red registration, rather than black  (Note: code = military /  registration = civil) . Colour scheme is probably bright red/silver

Serial number for military aircraft: codes were the unit identification letters painted on fuselage sides, e.g. NG for 604 Squadron.

 

The renders for the 1/48th kit look good: even at 25 notes it’s got to be good value, can’t wait for the Proctor IV and hope that Dora Wings can find some interesting colour schemes for it.

Edited by stever219
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  • 3 weeks later...
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Thanks Dora for three wonderful little Percivals. Thanks also to John Adams for his outline of the dimension variations and explanations of the fuselage anomalies. I have all of these kits and laying the parts over the drawings in the Air Britain book by David Gearing, "On the Wings of a Gull", page 363 ( which claim to be 'undoubtedly the most accurate drawings ever published', page 359 ) all the horizontal surfaces are a perfect match but the fuselage is 4mm short for the Vega Gull and 5mm short for the Proctor. Given John's explanation and the claims in the book from the AB team that "In researching this book........, it became clear that existing technical drawings of almost all the aircraft types were substantially inaccurate. .... Paul Jackson, .... has created these drawings after re-measuring many of the aircraft ..." page 359, then we do have a bit of a conundrum as far as the fuselage is concerned.

Nonetheless, they look like Vega Gulls as does the Proctor I. As for the interiors, these are all the same, and the instructions show the same parts and construction for all three versions. The PE set contains the wee radio shelf for the rear cabin wall for the Proctor but does not show this the instructions so you will have to make up your own internal arrangement - the proper military seats are provided but not referred to. The modeller can build any of the earlier Proctor I, II and III versions, as well as the Vega Gull from these kits, and don't throw the FROG kit away as it portrays the later versions with their longer and deeper fuselages quite well. 

A fuller review will appear on Hyperscale in due course.

Hope that clarifies some questions and that I have not trod on any toes.

Edited by Horatio Gruntfuttock
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12 hours ago, Horatio Gruntfuttock said:

Thanks Dora for three wonderful little Percivals. Thanks also to John Adams for his outline of the dimension variations and explanations of the fuselage anomalies. I have all of these kits and laying the parts over the drawings in the Air Britain book by David Gearing, "On the Wings of a Gull", page 363 ( which claim to be 'undoubtedly the most accurate drawings ever published', page 359 ) all the horizontal surfaces are a perfect match but the fuselage is 4mm short for the Vega Gull and 5mm short for the Proctor. Given John's explanation and the claims in the book from the AB team that "In researching this book........, it became clear that existing technical drawings of almost all the aircraft types were substantially inaccurate. .... Paul Jackson, .... has created these drawings after re-measuring many of the aircraft ..." page 359, then we do have a bit of a conundrum as far as the fuselage is concerned.

Nonetheless, they look like Vega Gulls as does the Proctor I. As for the interiors, these are all the same, and the instructions show the same parts and construction for all three versions. The PE set contains the wee radio shelf for the rear cabin wall for the Proctor but does not show this the instructions so you will have to make up your own internal arrangement - the proper military seats are provided but not referred to. The modeller can build any of the earlier Proctor I, II and III versions, as well as the Vega Gull from these kits, and don't throw the FROG kit away as it portrays the later versions with their longer and deeper fuselages quite well. 

A fuller review will appear on Hyperscale in due course.

Hope that clarifies some questions and that I have not trod on any toes.

I'm afraid you should check the real aircraft dimensions carefully, rather than published drawings.  I've known John Adams for many years and he has given me a set of his excellent and highly detailed 1/48 scale drawings on which the Dora kits are based and they are in a different league to the Air-Britain drawings (whatever their hype tells you...). According to both John's drawing and the Air-Britain book, the overall length of the Vega Gull with the standard Fairey prop is 25' 6", which scales out to 108 mm in 1/72 scale, yet the Air-Britain drawing measures 112 mm long.  Scaling down John's 1/48 drawing to 1/72 scale, the fuselage halves as moulded by Dora should be 90.3 mm long, which is precisely what they are....  

 

Before comparing kit parts with published drawings, we should first establish that the drawings have been reproduced to the correct scale and secondly that they also agree with the quoted wing span and length dimensions.......

 

Regarding the seats, 2 types are provided in the kits; military-style bucket seats and the same things with cushions. Neither of these are correct for the civil Vega Gulls, which should have the typical, upholstered automotive-style fitted to most civil cabin aircraft of the era. So that is a legitimate criticism of the kit.

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21 minutes ago, Roger Holden said:

I'm afraid you should check the real aircraft dimensions carefully, rather than published drawings.  I've known John Adams for many years and he has given me a set of his excellent and highly detailed 1/48 scale drawings on which the Dora kits are based and they are in a different league to the Air-Britain drawings (whatever their hype tells you...). According to both John's drawing and the Air-Britain book, the overall length of the Vega Gull with the standard Fairey prop is 25' 6", which scales out to 108 mm in 1/72 scale, yet the Air-Britain drawing measures 112 mm long.  Scaling down John's 1/48 drawing to 1/72 scale, the fuselage halves as moulded by Dora should be 90.3 mm long, which is precisely what they are....  

 

Before comparing kit parts with published drawings, we should first establish that the drawings have been reproduced to the correct scale and secondly that they also agree with the quoted wing span and length dimensions.......

 

Regarding the seats, 2 types are provided in the kits; military-style bucket seats and the same things with cushions. Neither of these are correct for the civil Vega Gulls, which should have the typical, upholstered automotive-style fitted to most civil cabin aircraft of the era. So that is a legitimate criticism of the kit.

I have to agree with you Roger and that is why I am not a rivet counter as a modeller - If it looks like the plane then that is good enough for me. We all know the hoo-ha that went on about Spitfire wing drawings a couple of decades ago but, as reviewer I need to do some research and present my findings to the modeller so he/she can make their own mind up. So that is what I have been doing and as a reasonably long-standing member of Air Britain, I have used their material for my cross-checking, especially as I do not have easy access to the real thing - as you say is difficult to rely on published drawings that may not always be reproduced true to scale anyway. My nearest Proctor is about 800km away and I suspect it is a MkIV anyway! And then we have issues with actual length of the aircraft as against projected length on the ground which I believe is used in some drawings - down that path there be dragons!

90.3 mm for the fuselage length? , I presume this is from stern post to cowling tip? Mine measures 94mm, although if I discount the cowling nose then it is very close to 90mm to the panel line. The overall length with rudder and provide prop is 110mm and 111mm with the tail-light for the Proctor included. It is interesting to look at the side of the box tops for the Dora Wings kits which for the Proctor I state Length as 112mm ( actually 108mm) and Wingspan as 168mm ( correct according to published dimensions), but for the two Vega Gull kits the quoted dimensions are length 164mm and wingspan 153mm - crikey!! Some one has made a mistake there - many a slip twixt brain and typing finger methinks!

Anyhoo, lets not quibble but just accept that now we do have at last a lovely little kit to embellish with all the wonderful schemes that graced the skies in the 1930s, and after the war in the form of converted Proctors.

Thanks for the comments, which have given me cause to pause.

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2 minutes ago, Horatio Gruntfuttock said:

90.3 mm for the fuselage length? , I presume this is from stern post to cowling tip? Mine measures 94mm, although if I discount the cowling nose then it is very close to 90mm to the panel line.

Thanks for the comments, which have given me cause to pause.

90.3 from rudder post to rear of separate nose bowl piece ie length of the fuselage half mouldings provided by Dora......no rudder or nose bowl included. I know John is very fussy about aircraft dimensions and would trust him over practically anyone else in the model sphere. Where there is conflicting data, he always tries to get to the bottom of it. 

 

As I'm also an A-B member, I remember the previews for the Percival book and they mentioned that the types where they had found the Percival g.a.s  to be in error were the Piston Provost and Q6 twin. No mention was made of any of the Gulls. 

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8 hours ago, Roger Holden said:

90.3 from rudder post to rear of separate nose bowl piece ie length of the fuselage half mouldings provided by Dora......no rudder or nose bowl included. I know John is very fussy about aircraft dimensions and would trust him over practically anyone else in the model sphere. Where there is conflicting data, he always tries to get to the bottom of it. 

 

As I'm also an A-B member, I remember the previews for the Percival book and they mentioned that the types where they had found the Percival g.a.s  to be in error were the Piston Provost and Q6 twin. No mention was made of any of the Gulls. 

It's all part of the fun isn't it? Thank heavens we have some of the real things left to measure up and blokes like John to pass on the info.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi friends. In ICARE, it is possible to see a PROCTOR with a cross of Lorrain called LORRAINE. It is stated that his pilot was Commander GRELIER (FAFL) and that it was his personal aircraft. It seems that it was made available to the Free French by the RAF in Egypt, but I can not find other elements on this plane! Would you? That would help me! thank you in advance

Pierre

 

 

hprocto10.jpg

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