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Donaldson International 707


Rb277170

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I've recently returned to the hobby and have set off on a task to build the airliners I remember from my early days at Glasgow Airport (late 60s /early to mid 70s) . Got lots to do , but acquiring airliners if and when they become available. I know 26 decals have a Donaldson 707 set , but my question is what would be the best route to model the plane? Should I go down the Airfix 707 route . The engines , Rolls Royce Conways , would be wrong and I would need to replace them with Pratt and Witneys JT3Ds . Does anyone do these? Alternatively there is a Minicraft kit that is a 707-300. I think Donaldson were 707-321s , so is this a better kit to look out for? 

 

Any advice appreciated

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Yes, but be careful which Minicraft kit you get; some of them also had Conways. Look for the Northwest boxing if you can find it. The military boxing of the VC-137 can also be used.

There's a minor problem with the Minicraft kit though. Its cockpit section is much too bulged. You can get a corrected nose section from Two Mikes resin.

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The Airfix BOAC/BA 707-436,-465 kit has the previous wing root trailing edge. The latter wing with the root trailing edge flap fillet on the ex Pan-Am 707-321F s that Donaldson had instead of a radius fillet, check though because those early PAA -321s might be the older MOD state . There are a few threads on this subject . Have an image search for -120 -420 and then -320 to see the differences.

I just have and I can't find a pic of a D/A 707 with Fans just original (1960) Jets with the Conway looking rosette exhausts.

Heres a link use the arrows to get some more pic

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Donaldson-International-Airways/Boeing-707-321/51959

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Thanks for coming back Jessica and bzn20  I hadn't even realised there was a wing issue . I'll have a look to see . Many thanks for that . I had my eyes on a TWA Minicraft one thinking these would be the correct engines , although the Airfix kit will be easier to come by. I'll have a look out for the Northwest one.

 

Thanks again

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A subject dear to my heart.

 

I remember "spotting" Donsaldon's G-AYXR at Dublin in 1974. As far as I was aware, Donalsdon only operated pure turbojet 707s - so the fan fitted JT3D would not be appropriate. As has been mentioned, their 707s were fitted with JT3Cs which lack the forward fan cowling and have the Conway style silencers on the back. In theory, Roden's pure jet 720 kits have the right type of engine but the representations of these engines in that kit are said to be inaccurate.

 

The Conway is actually closer to the pure jet JT3C and I would think that a bit of fettling to the Airfix 707 might turn it into a reasonable representation of an early 707-320

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47 minutes ago, Jessica said:

You'll need to alter the nose wheel doors

 

Whats the difference in the nose gear doors Jessica ? Didn't know or ever notice they were different even with my head stuck inside the bay . 

My learn something new everyday !  Wasn't intending to rhyme :doh:

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The early 707s had a "spade" type of nose gear door that hinged from the rear and covered only the strut. Late aircraft had the double side-hinged doors seen in the photo you linked to. See the 707 guide for details.

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Thanks for the great info. I thought I knew about airliners!  I've also got my JTD3s mixed up with JTC3s so I think I'll go for the Airfix kit. Certainly easier to come by. Thanks for the link to the guide . 

 

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Compared to what I'm used to in Railway Modelling, that's not so expensive. It would buy you a coach these days!  I haven't come across Authentic Airliners before , I know they've received some very positive feedback on here, but are they suitable for a relative newcomer like me ? The kit looks fairly straightforward although  I see the etched peices which suggests another level of sophistication to me. Tempting though. 

 

Russell 

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There isn't anything particularly difficult about Authentic Airliners models but they are very different from conventional injection-moulded kits.  They are aimed squarely at the advanced modeller who is prepared to do his/her own research and work from the "Hints and Tips" section of the AA website rather than printed instructions and numbered parts.  Working in resin can be a bit of an acquired taste and it might be better to get a few conventional kits under your belt first but if you want accuracy AA are unbeatable.  Kurt Lehmann who runs the company is a retired pilot and really knows his aircraft. Somebody had an AA B747SP in TWA livery on Airliner Cafe a few days ago and it certainly showed what can be achieved.

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Yes I saw the 747SP.  Actually looking at the website it would be the 1-11 500 and RR 757 I'd be interested in. But you are correct better not run before I walk . I've got a considerable stash to build now and the decals I ordered arrived from 26 decals last week, so I think I'm back to the Airfix 737 in Britannia early 70sclivery as first up.

 

Might go Airfix 707 and  Donaldson decals for future project. 

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I'm going through a classic airliner phase at the moment and working on the Airfix Comet 4B and the Minicraft DC-4. I have a terrible track record in starting airliner kits and not finishing them. Hopefully, I'll get these two done.

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I'll add to the chorus by saying that if you want the most accurate 707 that "really looks like the real thing" in 1/144th then Kurt Lehman's AA kit is definitely the way to go. His DC-8 is outstanding too.

 

None of the traditional 707 versions in injection molded plastic would i consider outstanding. The Airfix -420 series, while old as the hills is probably the best starting point, though i think the nose looks a bit odd. However, its much better than the nose found on the Minicraft 707s, which look decidedly DC-6 like.

 

Paul Fisher makes some nice resin TF-33 turbofans (i can't remember the turbocompressor configuration you get, sorry) as well as a nice resin nose for the Minicraft KC-135 (while not strictly a 707, has some nice features). Might be worth at least taking a look at.

 

Finally, despite some nasty comments back when it came out, the Roden 720B is a very nice kit; probably the all round best injection molded short fuselage 707, though it is a 720B.

 

Mention was made of the JT4. When Roden originally released their kit as a straight 720, they made the JT3 engines too big. In fact, going by Jennings Heilig's drawings, very closely proportioned to a JT4. Maybe something can be made of these to cobble them up to JT4 standard.

 

The Roden 720B has no such problem with its engines. They actually look rather nice; much better than the JT-3Ds you will find in the Minicraft 707-351 for sure.

 

Just an additional data point for future use.

 

-d-

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5 hours ago, David H said:

Minicraft KC-135 (while not strictly a 707, has some nice features). Might be worth at least taking a look at.

 

Good info post !

I reckon you should have a problem trying to graft a -135 nose to a 707 kit. Because the difference between the two Boeings like fuse X section and diameter will show up .

If the two "halves" are accurate that is

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1 hour ago, Eric Mc said:

Can the Roden 720 JT3 turbojets be knocked into a closer representation of the real thing by reprofiling/sanding etc?

 If the Roden kit is a 720B, the engine should be a JT3D Turbofan. The Turbojet (original 720 engine) is the JT3C. To answer your question. I suppose anything is possible .

What are you wanting a JT3 Turbojet for? Just interested..

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I have the Roden 720 JT3C engined version which I want to finish in Aerlínte Éireann - Irish International colours. Aerlínte never operated turbofan 720s.

My concerns over the engine arose after a fairly heated debate (which I read rather than participated in) that  appeared right here on BM.

 

Welsh models does have a set of white metal JT3Cs but I'm not sure if they are currently available. The cheaper and possibly easier option would be to work on what comes in the kit. If they can be sanded into a better shape then I'd be happy to go down that route.

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On 08/06/2017 at 1:11 PM, Rb277170 said:

I've recently returned to the hobby and have set off on a task to build the airliners I remember from my early days at Glasgow Airport (late 60s /early to mid 70s) . Got lots to do , but acquiring airliners if and when they become available. I know 26 decals have a Donaldson 707 set , but my question is what would be the best route to model the plane? Should I go down the Airfix 707 route . The engines , Rolls Royce Conways , would be wrong and I would need to replace them with Pratt and Witneys JT3Ds . Does anyone do these? Alternatively there is a Minicraft kit that is a 707-300. I think Donaldson were 707-321s , so is this a better kit to look out for? 

 

Any advice appreciated

Hi.

If you are going to use my Donaldson decals for your 707 build then they are designed to fit the Minicraft fuselage and not the Airfix kit.

Hope that helps.

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On 6/10/2017 at 4:26 PM, Eric Mc said:

Can the Roden 720 JT3 turbojets be knocked into a closer representation of the real thing by reprofiling/sanding etc?

I'd say no not really. The diameter of the nacelle, the length as well of the intake openings make it a fools errand. However they might be worth holding on to, in order to scratch build JT-4s for the early Intercontinental long-fuselage 707s or the exotic 707-227 series. However it largely comes down to how much heavy lifting you want to do on your own, as opposed to taking the easier way out and ordering aftermarket from those who really specialize in this stuff.

 

Kurt Lehman and Jennings Heilig are really more authorities on this than i.

 

-d-

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On 6/10/2017 at 1:52 PM, bzn20 said:

 

Good info post !

I reckon you should have a problem trying to graft a -135 nose to a 707 kit. Because the difference between the two Boeings like fuse X section and diameter will show up .

If the two "halves" are accurate that is

Yeah the 707s are clearly wider than the KC-135 A, but maybe the width is negligible at the front end where the upper profile and plan view starts to taper inward.

 

I'm not saying it works; just throwing it out there as the shapes to my eyes looked good and if you're buying his TF-33 engines at the same time....

 

-d-

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