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Ex-Polish Breguets XIX in Spain - anything about it?


JWM

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Hi,

I started now work on models of Breguet XIX. 20 ex-Polish (French build) Breguets XIX were sold to gen. Franco forces in 1936. This implies, that in Spain there were not only CASA Breguets but also some original French build machines. Since there are differences in fuselage between them it would be nice to know the numbers which were given to ex-Polish machines. In particular there are  some profiles reproducted, all showing CASA style fuselages like here:

67_1.jpg

67_2.jpg

Znalezione obrazy dla zapytania spanish breguet xix

Any info on this will be interesting and apprecieted

Cheers

Jerzy-Wojtek

 

Edited by JWM
correction of error
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11 hours ago, leyreynolds said:

None of my SCW references confirm the delivery of Breguet 19's from Poland. Have you checked on Aeronet GCE

Strange... All Polish sources which I know say this. I was trying to google this topic but not sucess yet. I belive in knowledge of BM members :)

Regards

J-W

P.S.

I just fund confirmation here:

http://www.century-of-flight.net/Aviation history/photo_albums/timeline/ww2/Breguet Bre.19.htm

 

It is said:

Spain imported 19 complete aircraft, the first three for use as pattern machines for licence production. The CASA company then assembled 26 aircraft from French components and went on to build 177 Breguet 19s. 127 were powered by Lorraine engines built under licence and 50 by imported Hispano-Suizas.

Spanish Breguet 19s first saw action against rebel tribes in Morocco. In 1936, 135 of the type were still on strength, most of them in Spain. Although obsolete, the Bre.19 was used by both sides in the Spanish Civil War, surviving aircraft being divided about equally between the Republicans and the Nationalists who also purchased 20 reconditioned Breguet 19s from Poland. The Bre.19s were employed largely against troops and ground targets, but also for coast patrol duties. By mid-1937 both sides had withdrawn the ageing Breguets from front-line service, surviving examples being used for training or placed in reserve.

Edited by JWM
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To the best of my knowledge, the best English source on the Spanish Civil War aircraft is still Putnam's Aircraft of the Spanish Civil War by Gerald Howson, published in 1990.  In it he says "According to the Polish air historian Andrez Glass, twenty ex-Polish Breguet 19s were sold through SEPEWE (or SPV), a sales agency in Danzig, to the Spanish Nationalists in July 1936, together with the Polish PWS 10s and RWD 13s.  There is as yet no evidence to corroborate or disprove this story."

 

Which explains why the story is common in Poland.  But has any further information come to light?

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FYI Classic's Air War over Spain published 20 years after Howson's book and written by a Spanish author, lists 20 PWS-10 & 4 RWD-13 as the only Polish aircraft deliveries to Spain... :whistle:

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23 hours ago, Panoz said:

FYI Classic's Air War over Spain published 20 years after Howson's book and written by a Spanish author, lists 20 PWS-10 & 4 RWD-13 as the only Polish aircraft deliveries to Spain...

There was for sure one RWD-9 delivered before war as well. She likely crashed in end of 1936.

I am thinking on such confusion.  The RWD and PWS were much more visible, as new types. Breguets were already in wide use from years in Spain so 20 additional could not be so well noticed. Especially that there was likely a lot of captured from Republicans among Nationalists.

Anyway, frankly speaking for me, doing model of Sapanish Nationalist Breg XiX it is better to think that all were CASA build, so with more linien on fuselage sides.

Regards

J-W 

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According to Belcarz, Polish Wings 18:-

 

"At the end of 1936 the airforce disposed of twenty Breguet 19s kept in storage. On 12 December the Head of thr 1st Department of the General Staff agreed to hand these machines to the SEPEWE company that dealt with foreign arms sales. The aircraft were sold to the Spanish Nationalists for the air force of Gen Franco. As Poland had signed, on 29 July 1936, the international Non-intervention Treaty with respect to the Spanish Civil War, and this banned deliveries of any war equipment, Portugal was mentioned as the seller of the aircraft."

 

"The Brequets were therfore shipped by sea to Lisbon, and from there they probably went to Tablada air base near Sevilla, where they were erected. Details of their service in the Spanish Air Force are not known. They were used along with other Breguets, captured by the Nationalists in the first days of the uprising (no fewer than 60)."

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303sqn - many thanks! So we are back - there could be a group of non-CASA build Bregs XIX in Spain on Nationalist side...

Regards

J-W

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7 minutes ago, leyreynolds said:

What is the difference between Breguet and CASA built aircraft please?

There is a difference in cover on the fuselage. The original Breguet has metal cover from front down to the end of gunner position and then fabric whereas CASA has linien (fabric) already along the whole cockpit (the pilot and the gunner positions). The steps ("ledder") for crew is placed differently as well.

CASA build:

173_1.jpg

Original French build:

21_2.jpg

 

Above are with different engines as well but this is a different story (Polish Bregs has the same W type engines as majority of CASA builds)

Cheers

J-W

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

BTW - in net I found only one photo of Nationalist Breguet XIX - namely that one:

breg%2019%2002-05-00029-10-165_zpsqbzoh8

 

Any idea on white and black elements on top wing? Strips, crosses, circles?... I think that on bottom nothing more than only doubled black circles (more guess then see)...And white wingtips.

Have anybody more photos of Franco side Bregs to share here?

Cheers

J-W

 

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