F-4 Phantom in the nude

[At Sea]

Given that the Phantom came out in the 1960's and was used as an interceptor by many airforces why do you never see them in natural metal?

It's the right era!

 

Is there a metallurgical reason why not, due to oxidation etc, or was it just the case that by the time the Phantom reached service the tactical camo and greys had taken over?

If it was left natural were they all silvers or more of a gold / bronze / silver affair like the Streak Eagle F-15?

 

If you have a picture of one in the nude I'd like that...

[JohnT]

Perhaps her origin as a naval aircraft is a factor. 

[Richard E]

3 minutes ago, JohnT said:

Perhaps her origin as a naval aircraft is a factor. 

 

Makes sense - the only example I have ever seen is a single picture of an F-4D in the World Airpower Journal's McDonnell F-4 Phantom "Spirit in the Skies" book.

[71chally]

I'm not sure it was the Naval thing, given that the majority of Phantoms were for land based air forces.

 

By the time the F-4C entered USAF service in 1964 the light grey was the standard finish, some of the very late F-84Fs they replaced were already in grey.

It was only  year or so later before the SEA scheme came along.

 

I'm guessing as they were already painted that they never served in natural metal with other air forces.

 

I've seen a picture of a stripped RAF Phantom, and it looked mainly natural alloys (various tones) to me.

[Creepy Pete]

4 hours ago, At Sea said:

 more of a gold / bronze / silver affair like the Streak Eagle F-15?

 

 Yup, just like that. Here's a whole bunch of them before primer and paint at the production line. Click here for nudes

[iainpeden]

In no particular order: the protective value of a paint layer in any environment, the fashionable change from natural metal to camouflage - and then fashions changing about what was effective camouflage. The USAF Thunderbirds had, until the Phantom, used a/c in natural metal; the multiple alloys and fibreglass bits used in the construction of the F-4 and the consequent lack of aesthetic appeal led to the decision to paint the a/c white.

[At Sea]

10 minutes ago, Creepy Pete said:

 Yup, just like that. Here's a whole bunch of them before primer and paint at the production line. Click here for nudes

 

WOW! NSFW link.  Cheers.

[71chally]

32 minutes ago, Creepy Pete said:

 Yup, just like that. Here's a whole bunch of them before primer and paint at the production line. Click here for nudes

That looks like a thin layer of that goldish etch layer to me, the jets behind look more alloy finish?

[Nigel Bunker]

The goldish colour could be due to it being photographed under fluorescent lighting.

[Creepy Pete]

Some more pics of Phantoms in their birth costume, along with other MDD products: Clickie

[Giorgio N]

I may add to the very good answers already given above that by the arrival of the Phantom the USAF had abandoned natural metal finishes also for those types that we think of as in NM. Corrosion problems found on a number of types had led the USAF to introduce aluminum paint even before the tactical schemes were introduced. The F-105Ds for example entered service in this scheme while the same finish was applied to a good number of F-100s before the introduction of the SEA scheme. Interceptors as said were in ADC grey, a scheme that was already in use on the last F-89s.

In a sense when the Phantom entered USAF service the "natural metal" era ad already ended

Edited May 8, 2017 by Giorgio N

[Nigel Bunker]

Having looked at the other pictures, I think the aluminium panels were finished in Alocrom/Alodine, a finish applied to aluminium in the Aerospace industry which forms a protective golden coloured conversion coating on aluminium and its alloys and is generally applied before the aluminium is painted.

[Fernando]

On 6/5/2017 at 9:53 PM, 71chally said:

I'm not sure it was the Naval thing, given that the majority of Phantoms were for land based air forces.

 Hi, 71chally,

It was. Even its early nomenclature was naval (F4H-1, if memory serves me well). It can be read in any history of the type how the USAF top brass were incensed at a naval plane that could outperform anything in actual or planned service in their air arm.

 

The early F-4Bs in "interceptor" service sported a Light Grey scheme (FS36473 ADC Grey), and RF-4Cs in Light Grey/White (the same ADC Grey?)  though I cannot say whether in imitation of the then-current naval scheme or because the colours looked appropriate. What can be said is that the aircraf went to the "tactical" role fairly soon in USAF service.

 

Fernando

[Giorgio N]

39 minutes ago, Fernando said:

 Hi, 71chally,

It was. Even its early nomenclature was naval (F4H-1, if memory serves me well). It can be read in any history of the type how the USAF top brass were incensed at a naval plane that could outperform anything in actual or planned service in their air arm.

 

The early F-4Bs in "interceptor" service sported a Light Grey scheme (FS36473 ADC Grey), and RF-4Cs in Light Grey/White (the same ADC Grey?)  though I cannot say whether in imitation of the then-current naval scheme or because the colours looked appropriate. What can be said is that the aircraf went to the "tactical" role fairly soon in USAF service.

 

Fernando

 

The first Phantoms in USAF service carried the same 36440 over white scheme of the contemporary Navy aircrafts. This applies to the "F-110", the F-4C and the RF-4C.

As in those same years the USAF was working on the definition of the SEA scheme, the grey over white scheme was indeed short lived.

The overall 16473 scheme was first used on the Phantom when the F-4C started serving in a number of units tasked with air defence duties in the continental USA, mainly in the ANGs. These were aircrafts made redundant by the introduction of more advanced variants and were used to replace types like the F-101B and the F-102. This happened in the mid '70s. The same fate occurred to a number of F-4Ds and later even some Es carried this scheme (for example those serving with 57th FIS in Iceland)

[71chally]

Sorry Fernando, I know the Phantom itself was a naval thing, just not the paint and finishing reasoning in general,

[iainpeden]

There were 2 USN F-4B's assigned to the USAF before theirs were delivered; painted in the light gull gray over white scheme.

 

As Giorgio says the USAF gray over white scheme was short lived and,I think, was restricted to the F-4C and RF-4C; however some were posted to Vietnam in that scheme.

 

I think the only E's to wear the ADC gray scheme were the Iceland based ones although I recall seeing a picture of one from one of the test units.

[Truro Model Builder]

A lot of natural metal aircraft that had already been in service were being painted at that time. A lot of F-86s that were being supplied under MDAP rules were flying out to their new operators in 'anti-corrosion gray'.

[tony.t]

Yes, the golden finish in the St.Louis factory shot is the alodine etch conversion coat of hexavalent chromium. 

 

The Navy F-4B aircraft were painted flat LGG over gloss white right from the beginning as an anti-corrosion measure, as were all seafaring jets from that era. They were daubed with chromate whilst at sea. Some F-4Bs ended up with landing gear and wells that were more daubed than white. The follow-on F-4J mark, at sea from 1966, ditto, and they lasted nearly twenty years. Bare metal, they might not have been good for more than three-four years.

 

In the 1980s the USAF began rotinely stripping its F-4s down to the skin during depot overhauls and applying either (default) 16473 Aircraft Gray or the silky Hill Gray II scheme. They looked like new again for a few years.

 

I always wondered about strip, etch and paint procedures used on FAA FG.1s. The jet at the Yeovilton Museum shows original white which has yellowed to cream, and what is obviously a newer coat of white in other places. 

 

Fascinating stuff, paint jobs.

 

Tony