IDF Sherman M1.

[Bullbasket]

I've started to go through my old RFI's which both Photobucket and Village Photos have managed to mess up, one way or another. Instead of having to click on each one twice to see them (and risk going into VP which has no security certificate), I'm uploading them again. Apologies to those who've already seen them, and thanks for your understanding.

Basically, what this is, is Tamiya's M1 Sherman upper hull and turret, Dragon's M4 Hybrid lower hull and running gear, T49 tracks from Panda Plastics, and Sabingamartin decals. The WIP is still there, but minus the photos.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I finished this a couple of weeks ago, but I didn't want to put it into RFI until I'd put it on a base and added a couple of crew members. Well, now that's done. I used the two figures that came with the Tamiya kit but I wasn't happy with the faces. Most of the figures supplied with kits are a little lacking when it comes to definition with regards to the facial features. For me, nothing beats the resin variety. So I changed the heads for ones from Hornet. Unfortunately, the only ones that I had were British, but I thought that there were many Europeans who emigrated to Israel after WW2, so they'd have to do.

I made the base using a small picture frame bought from Wilkinsons, balsa wood for the sides and polyurethane foam sheet. I wanted to keep it fairly simple, so I mixed up some household filler, PVA glue and some yellow ochre acrylic paint with water, and spread the mix over the top of the foam. Before it went off, I gently pushed the tracks down into the mix. Once it had hardened, I added some clumps of grass. It would have been better if they had been a bit more parched, but once again, I used what I had.

If you want to see the build log, it's here;

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Any questions, comments or criticisms, please feel free.

Thanks for looking.

 

John.

[Kingsman]

Very nice.  I like it very much.  Gives me a standard to aim for (and miss hilariously, doubtless!).  I have much the same project in my stash-without-end, using the Dragon kit with the twin large hatch turret.

[Bullbasket]

Thanks very much DA. I thoroughly enjoyed the build. I just wish that Tamiya would stop mixing and matching new moulds with the old ones. That lower hull is past it's sell by date. I hope to do the M1 Super Sherman at some point so hopefully it won't be such a mishmash.

 

John.

[Kingsman]

Aren't we talking about the same thing?  AFAIK M1 Sherman and Super Sherman are interchangeable and correct descriptions for any 76mm Shermans: the "Super" being comparative with the 75mm versions they scrounged.  Then came the VVSS M50, HVSS M50 Continental, HVSS M50 Cummins, and then the M51.  The epithet Super Sherman was never used by IDF for the M50 or M51, but they are widely mis-described thus outside Israel.

 

That basic flaw with the Tamiya offering is what persuaded me to go with the Dragon as a basis.  It is an all-round better kit IMHO.  Yes, IDF did have some with the early twin large hatch turret but they were much less common than those with the small loader's hatch.  Only small-hatch turrets made it into the M50 and M51 programmes.

[Ilan]

Very nice!

[zliu013]

Simply one of the best I've ever seen, 

[Bullbasket]

12 hours ago, Das Abteilung said:

Aren't we talking about the same thing?  AFAIK M1 Sherman and Super Sherman are interchangeable and correct descriptions for any 76mm Shermans: the "Super" being comparative with the 75mm versions they scrounged.  Then came the VVSS M50, HVSS M50 Continental, HVSS M50 Cummins, and then the M51.  The epithet Super Sherman was never used by IDF for the M50 or M51, but they are widely mis-described thus outside Israel.

According to Dr. Robert Manasherob in his two books Lioness and Lion of the Line, Vols.12 & 14, he states that the M1 Sherman name applied to the VVSS equipped tanks, and M1 Super Sherman was used by the IDF to describe HVSS tanks. The "Super" tag was used to differentiate between the two, basically identical tanks. 

 

John.

[Bullbasket]

2 hours ago, Ilan said:

Very nice!

Many thanks, Illan.

 

John.

[Bullbasket]

1 hour ago, zliu013 said:

Simply one of the best I've ever seen, 

Thanks a lot. Appreciate it.

 

John.

[phildagreek]

Very smart, clean build with a nice paint finish and very simply displayed, good effort.

[Bullbasket]

26 minutes ago, phildagreek said:

Very smart, clean build with a nice paint finish and very simply displayed, good effort.

Thanks Phil. I prefer the simple approach when displaying a model, otherwise it looks like it's trying to be a diorama.

 

John.

[PlaStix]

Wow! That really is a superb Sherman! Absolutely stunning painting and weathering. Very, very well done.

Kind regards,

Stix

[Bullbasket]

Hi Stix,

Thanks very much for the kind words.

Regards,

 

John.

[Kingsman]

I stand corrected on the M1 vs Super Sherman nomenclature. No-one argues with Dr Robert, and I do wish I could justify a set of his books!  

 

IDF didn't seem to have that many HVSS Shermans, certainly compared to the VVSS types that they could get hold of more readily.  I mean prior to M50 or M51 conversion to HVSS.  I've only seen a very few photos, all M4A1 76.  I suspect that the confusion over the use of the "Super" designation for M50s and 51s stems from a misunderstanding that all HVSS Shermans were designated "Supers".  As all surviving VVSS M50s were eventually converted to HVSS and all M51s were HVSS from the start, I can see why people might fall into the trap of calling them "Super".

 

It would be more accurate to say that all HVSS Shermans that were not M50 or M51 were designated "Super".

 

Some of the unconverted Supers were later sold to Uganda, which has always struck me as odd because the cast hull HVSS T23 turret A1 configuration was the baseline for M51 conversions.  The M50s were a more eclectic mix of hull types, but M51's were all A1s.  I wonder if the cast hull proved better able to withstand the recoil forces of the 105mm.  The prototype was on an M4A2, which would of course have been welded, and structural damage was done to the hull during testing.  But even with the shortened barrel and reduced-charge cartridge that resulted from the prototype tests no more welded M51s were ever built.

 

This is an interesting photo.  A VVSS cast-hull M51 - a configuration not used by IDF - in French markings.  It isn't the afore-mentioned M4A2 prototype, no photos of which apparently exist.  It might be the first pilot of the production turret configuration on a representative hull. There are also photos of a French-marked welded-hull VVSS M50 and at least one M4A1 fitted with the complete FL-10 turret (the Egyptian conversions were on M4A4s).  Saumur still has one.  It is assumed that French markings were applied to disguise the fact that they were working on things for Israel and Egypt (both sides at the same time?).  The caption is incorrect, unless this vehicle represents a "missing link" in M51 evolution.  The CN105 gun was originally L/56, shortened after trials to L/44 for the M51, with a reduced-volume chamber and shorter less powerful cartridge.  If this really is an L/51 gun it could represent an intermediate step in the weapon's evolution.

 

I mentioned M1s with the twin large hatch T23 turret, which were much rarer all round than the later type with the small loader's hatch.  Here's one, the one I intend to eventually do: for all I know it may have been unique.  The "white bar" on the hull side is the serial number plate, which the drawing has in the wrong place on the RHS: it would have been in front of the V on both sides.

  

 

[sanfrandragon]

Very nice!  Wonderful finish to a great model.  I like the weathering and fading - is there a wip or any tips?

[Bullbasket]

8 hours ago, Das Abteilung said:

 The M50s were a more eclectic mix of hull types, but M51's were all A1s.  

There has been a lot of discussion on this subject in the model press and online sites, and like you, I assumed that all M51's were built on late cast hulls, but not so. Again, referring to the good doctors books, Vol.10 of Lioness and Lion of the line has a photo, drawing and colour profile of an M51 on an M4A3 late hull. To be fair, I don't think that there were many of this type as the photos of them are few. The one in the photo that I refer to belonged to a reserve unit.

With regards to the naming of types, some of them seem to have their origins in the modelling fraternity, but then get taken as being for real. A perfect example is the name used a lot to describe M51's, Isherman. Apparently, the IDF don't recognise this name.

 

John.

 

[Bullbasket]

56 minutes ago, sanfrandragon said:

Very nice!  Wonderful finish to a great model.  I like the weathering and fading - is there a wip or any tips?

Thanks very much, and yes there is. If you go to the top of this thread, you'll see the link. Just click  where it says "IDF Sherman M1".

 

John.

[batcode]

nice job. the paint and weathering looks great.......

[Bullbasket]

2 hours ago, batcode said:

nice job. the paint and weathering looks great.......

Thanks very much.

 

John.

[robgizlu]

Great scene - lovely weathering and the Figures really set it off.  

One to be proud of John

 

Rob

[HL-10]

Very nice!

I like the weathering especially

[Bullbasket]

1 hour ago, robgizlu said:

Great scene - lovely weathering and the Figures really set it off.  

One to be proud of John

 

Many thanks. Yes, I am quite pleased with it.

 

John.

[Bullbasket]

54 minutes ago, HL-10 said:

Very nice!

I like the weathering especially

Thanks a lot. The dirty condition of this tank was what drew me to it in the first place.

 

John.

[Bullbasket]

On ‎07‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 01:52, Das Abteilung said:

I mentioned M1s with the twin large hatch T23 turret, which were much rarer all round than the later type with the small loader's hatch.  Here's one, the one I intend to eventually do: for all I know it may have been unique.  The "white bar" on the hull side is the serial number plate, which the drawing has in the wrong place on the RHS: it would have been in front of the V on both sides.

Just noticed another thing about that photo that you posted above. It appears to have the early M1A1 unthreaded main gun. I've not seen many of those in IDF service. I wonder if it also has the extra "lifting ring" on the turret.

 

John.

[FrancisGL]

Very nice finished, looks so real, and figures so natural, i love resut achieved. , cheers John