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Bonkin

British Army Diamond T Tank Transporter with Centurion Project

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Certainly looks an epic project, will watch with interest.

It's particularly poignant that its from your Dad's time in service and with that photo, that's a really nice touch.

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On 03/05/2017 at 2:33 AM, Das Abteilung said:

The colour was called Deep Bronze Green, and it was gloss.  Hataka A271 from their Modern British Colours set is reputed to be a good match.  DOA do a match for Deep Bronze Green No24, but that may be the pre-war shade and in any case I think they're out of business.  AFAIK no-one else does a named match.  In the Bad Old Days it used to be Humbrol Brunswick Green with a bit of flatting agent to tone the shine down.

 

Sovereign do a British Deep Bronze Green (ARB02), it's matt but looks good under a semi-gloss coat.

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18 hours ago, Bonkin said:

Got back from my business trip today and found my eBay order from the States had arrived :penguin:. Unfortunately I had to pay another £20 in customs duty because the price was visible on the label. Someone told me the way around this is to make sure you get the person sending it to you to mark it as a gift. Not sure if there is much truth in this but its one to note for the future.

 

Bit of a myth as VAT is due on gifts over the limit as well, however they are less likely to get targeted - unfortunately, big or heavy packages attract attention, and models usually fall into the latter!

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On 2017-5-7 at 06:05, Wogga said:

Great story Bonkin and great research, good luck matching the green us Brits made it difficult for modellers, i agree with a deep bronze green to my eye it was darker british racing green. Just to add some confusion Accurate Armour do some Hannants paints or obviously direct from Hannants they are closest i have seen XA1814 British deep bronze green. XA1815 British Mid Bronze green.

Thanks for the help. See my paint test below.

 

On 2017-5-17 at 11:53, Dave Fleming said:

 

Sovereign do a British Deep Bronze Green (ARB02), it's matt but looks good under a semi-gloss coat.

I've not heard of Sovereign paints before - but I Googled it and found a link. Maybe still worth trying if my paint test is inconclusive?

 

On 2017-5-17 at 11:57, Dave Fleming said:

 

Bit of a myth as VAT is due on gifts over the limit as well, however they are less likely to get targeted - unfortunately, big or heavy packages attract attention, and models usually fall into the latter!

Aye. :swear:

 

So I've decided to let the old man decide... I'm building it for him and he's the best person to advise what looks right. Consequently I've sprayed up a test card with a number of different greens all of which could be suitable. Unfortunately they do tend to vary considerably according to the lighting conditions - and of course the camera and how you are viewing them. Here it is anyway (under slightly different light):

 

20170521_142141.jpg

20170521_142115.jpg

 

20170521_142340.jpg

 

I first put down a layer of Stynylrez Grey Primer and then did a band of each colour over the top. At first I had a bit of a problem with the Hannants paint but after thinning with Tamiya X20A it went down fine.

 

Top to bottom Vallejo 71.250 (Vallejo are my Go To paints), Hannants XA1814, Vallejo 71.092, Tamiya XF-61 and Tamiya XF-62.

 

Fingers crossed he likes a Vallejo one! :wink:

 

I also did a bit of priming...

 

20170521_141854.jpg

 

20170521_141937.jpg

 

 

Edited by Bonkin
Mistaken emoticon

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Better is start from brighter colours. Tamiya looks very dark comparing to Vallejo. 

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If you look at the info below, your bottom colour isn't far off - allowing for being matt rather than gloss.  

 

Here are BS 381C colour swatches from a historical paint consultant, whose website is here: http://patrickbaty.co.uk/2016/01/09/bronze-green/ .  But if you look at the Land Rover pictured there it looks very different to the swatch.

Image result for deep bronze green

Here's another from a company who makes paints for full-size vehicle restorations.  The Land-Rover photo looks more like this.  This is supposedly the same colour as the bottom one of the 3 above - which shows why you can't trust on-screen colour swatches. This isn't far off XF-62, noting that it would need a gloss coat which would darken it somewhat.  I'm not sure that Vallejo has a particularly close match, but it's hard to tell  - accepting the inaccuracy of screen reproduction of paper colour charts.  Some colours even look different on different Vallejo shade charts!  Their "Bronce Green(!)" certainly looks far too dark: more Schwarzgrun.

Image result for deep bronze green

 

Here's a Scammell Constructor, a similarly-sized vehicle to a Diamond T, resplendent in DBG.

Related image

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On 2017-5-22 at 02:59, Das Abteilung said:

Here's a Scammell Constructor, a similarly-sized vehicle to a Diamond T, resplendent in DBG.

Related image

 

That's a beauty! And the colour now matches my expectation of what a Bronze Green should look like! My Dad confirmed that none of the colours on my test card were right - instead he directed me to a Military Vehicles Magazine with some excellent colour photos... so, not being able to get an exact match in any colour range (I've not tried Halfords by the way), I decided to try a little paint mixing myself:

 

20170522_170450.jpg

 

I think I'm getting close... but I'm going to put it in the post to him so he can examine it with the naked eye.

 

20170522_193418.jpg

 

Once I've got the right period mix, I'll share it in this thread. Meanwhile, while I wait for his critique I've made work on the modification of the cab. The T's in his company had an observation hatch cut into the roof. For most, this was in the central position but a few have them off to one side. For the 1/35 scale, my judgement is that it is the size of a penny... so drills, cutters and blades at the ready I set to work:

 

20170522_193359.jpg

 

20170522_194128.jpg

 

20170522_194803.jpg

 

20170522_203257.jpg

 

Next steps will be to construct the hatch itself. Not sure yet whether to put a cover on it yet either.

 

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Hi Bonks

 

 I keep an eye on your work, verry good of course. This bronze green is verry hard to catch but so typical, I'm surprised I imagined it more brownish. I have to cross the border to big scales one day,...

 

Cheers

 

secu

 

 

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Nice progress....

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On 2017-5-26 at 16:44, secu54 said:

Hi Bonks

 

 I keep an eye on your work, verry good of course. This bronze green is verry hard to catch but so typical, I'm surprised I imagined it more brownish. I have to cross the border to big scales one day,...

 

Cheers

 

secu

 

 

Hey Secu! Good to see you here. Thanks for following and posting.

 

On 2017-5-27 at 13:25, robw_uk said:

Nice progress....

Thanks Rob.

 

So its been a busy weekend and I don't have that much to report. Frustratingly, although I posted off my test colours to my Dad last week they've still not arrived :wtf:. He confirmed that on-screen, non of them look right so I've been having another go and will post these off tomorrow.

 

For comparison here they are:

20170529_124356.jpg

 

I've done a bit more on the cab and realised that the little Airfix paint pots that come with some started kits are an excellent fit for the circular hole I've cut. I was going to use card but now I'm debating with myself whether I should just use one of these. The only problem is that the plastic is very "rubbery". I tried to sand it but it just kinda peels. Not ideal.

 

20170529_113358.jpg

 

Still, it doesn't look too bad - but is maybe a bit thick.

 

20170529_113411.jpg

 

Jury is out for the time being. I may still use card.

 

Meanwhile I set about work on the winch. As usual with this kit, some of the parts are tiny and inevitably pinged out of my tweezers - resulting in some lost time on my hands and knees looking for lost parts. Thankfully I found them.

 

20170529_161131.jpg

 

And its coming together nicely...

 

20170529_184524.jpg

 

20170529_184513.jpg

 

20170529_184454.jpg

 

I also tried a few test fits on the chassis...

 

20170529_184918.jpg

 

20170529_185428.jpg

 

With luck it won't be too long before the bronze green colour mix is resolved and I can start painting up the chassis. Thanks for following.

 

 

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Nice work so far it's starting to look like a Diamond T now!

I'm sure you'll sort the colour shade out soon

  Roger

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On 2017-5-30 at 12:38, Hamden said:

 

 

Nice work so far it's starting to look like a Diamond T now!

I'm sure you'll sort the colour shade out soon

  Roger

Thanks. After my first samples were lost my the Royal Mail I did a second set and these thankfully got through. My Dad looked at them all and decided the right shade was somewhere between Humbrol 3 (Brunswick Green) and my own colour mix. I've opted for my own mix though because I had a lot of difficult thinning and spraying the Humbrol colour.

 

First off was the engine. I understand that brand new engines came out of the factory in gloss grey. My Dads engine was a REME rebuild though - which was painted a sort of duck-egg green/blue colour. Anyway, when I was with him towards the end of last year I took a pantone colour set with me and asked him to choose the colour which, as far as his memory served him, was a close match. He chose Pantone 3242C... so out with the colour cups I started to mix it up using Vallejo 70.961 and 70.970...

20170602_135915.jpg

 

Thankfully it came out spot on and the painted colour exactly matches the Pantone.

20170602_160548.jpg

 

I also did the transmission and drive link.

20170602_143932.jpg

 

So after painting the fan belts and filters, it is now complete:

20170603_130125.jpg

 

20170603_130649.jpg

 

I also complete priming of the main assemblies:

20170602_201828.jpg

 

And then started work on the green. First off - wheel hubs, rear drives and radiator.

20170603_144530.jpg

 

Then it was the main chassis...

20170603_144510.jpg

 

And then later on I fitted the exhaust and assembled the rear drive pinions. This was actually extremely difficult as it needed several parts to be joined and fitted all at the same time.

20170603_193729.jpg

 

20170603_193736.jpg

 

I also fitted the front steering rack as well.

20170603_193910.jpg

 

I'm still not sure about the green. This is is mix we chose but now that I have it over a larger area I've got some doubts. Think I'll still work on it before I make too much progress.

 

Edited by Bonkin

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Great paintjob,  as I can see with my poor laptop your green seems to match with the Scamel on the previous page. You have a clean ad tidied worskhop, if only I could have the same...

 

secu

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So I kept looking at the colour and decided it just wasn't right. My colour samples finally reached my Dad as well and he confirmed what I'd been thinking. The problem is that there just seems to be sooo many different shades of "British Bronze Green" from all the paint manufacturers - and believe me, I've tried a lot. Pictures I've looked at online and in magazines all seem to vary as well - even of the same vehicle but taken from a different aspect.

 

Anyway... here it is in its current scheme... and this I think is the best match for the Scammel Constructor and is also allegedly the right colour mix deemed by the professionals at Humbrol:

 

20170617_152411.jpg

 

20170617_152342.jpg

 

20170617_151219.jpg

 

20170617_150619.jpg

 

20170617_151157.jpg

 

20170617_150838.jpg

 

20170617_150558.jpg

 

I am much happier with this now... and I've found that spraying enamels is much easier than acrylics. Anyway, the paint mix used is as follows:

 

43 parts of Humbrol 3

15 parts of Humbrol 80, and

14 parts of Humbrol 60.

 

I can now crack on with the rest of it.

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The chassis looks great I think you have nailed the colour as well!

Impatiently awaiting the next installment of this great build

 

  Roger

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Just caught up with this build. Very nice work and you father will certainly appreciate it.  Regarding the yellowed decals in the Centurion kit, just put them in a plastic bag- ZipLock type is best, tape them to a sunny window (preferably south facing) for a week or two and the yellowing should go away.  Here's a BM link discussion on the topic-  http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234919374-working-with-yellowed-decals/

 

Lou in Utah 

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Cracking progress, and that green looks good to me. 

Might not be helpful but here's a pic i took yesterday - Same green? 

recovery_zps6a9hdjrp.jpg

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On 18/06/2017 at 05:49, louiex2 said:

Just caught up with this build. Very nice work and you father will certainly appreciate it.  Regarding the yellowed decals in the Centurion kit, just put them in a plastic bag- ZipLock type is best, tape them to a sunny window (preferably south facing) for a week or two and the yellowing should go away.  Here's a BM link discussion on the topic-  http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234919374-working-with-yellowed-decals/

 

Lou in Utah 

Cheers. Good tip.

 

Well I did say (somewhere) that I am a slow builder - but I've actually been able to make some progress today. Truth is I've actually been away on business a lot so haven't really had any time "at the bench". Still, I'm happy with what I've achieved today, although in hindsight I'm not sure if I've done things in the right order and are therefore storing up problems for later... but we'll see.

 

First off, I used AK Interactive products to add a little grime to the engine:

20170805_130635.jpg

 

20170805_130646.jpg

 

I've deliberately been quite sparing with it because my Dad wants a clean, "ready for inspection" look. I think it was necessary though in order to break up the flatness of the colour - and all engines have a bit of dirt on them don't they?

 

Next up I concentrated on connecting up the drive shafts, both to the winch drive and the rear axles. This is where I think if I'd followed the build order in the instructions it would have been a lot easier. I didn't follow them because I wanted to paint the engine the authentic colour and figured it should be fairly straight forward to fit these parts after assembly of the chassis. Wrong! After much cussing and sanding I finally was able to get it all in - but, now I think I may have twisted the chassis slightly. Oh the fun!

 

20170805_154914.jpg

 

20170805_154933.jpg

 

Looking at the radiator back, its clear there is a problem :(

 

20170805_155010.jpg

 

So out it came (unintentionally so did the fan blade) and some pressure was applied in key areas (along with more cussing)... and then I started on the front mudguards, hoping that they may help twist things back:

 

20170805_181000.jpg

 

It has started to align again but there is clearly a fit problem... not the kits fault I hasten to add... here I've started on the etched metal parts and they fit beautifully:

 

20170806_174338.jpg

 

And here are the fuel tanks

 

20170806_182229.jpg

 

20170806_182315.jpg

 

A quick dry-fit... and everything is fine:

 

20170806_182520.jpg

 

So the next step is to prime the new parts ready for paint... and this is where I realise I've probably caused myself more work - since I've now got to mask of the engine and other fiddly bits that I don't want to spray. This is my first vehicle build... previously I've always done aircraft. What it is doing though is giving me a fine appreciation of how much harder vehicle builds are to aircraft :).

 

Finally, I've been considering how to cover the cupola. Apparently it had a canvas cover to it so wondering what material to use to get this looking right. I'm thinking toilet tissue which has been very carefully strengthened with PVA may be suitable... hence this:

 

20170806_182557.jpg

 

We'll have to see how it turns out!

Edited by Bonkin

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For canvas I've often used a single of  J-cloth. It's slightly stronger than toilet tissues but has a similar structure. (Better I feel for canvas) :-) 

 

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It all looks satisfyingly complex- the attention to authentic colour is making a difference.

 

 

 

For canvas in this scale I usually use pasta.

 

61VnBAoAoWL._SL1000_.jpg

No really- use home made pasta. Roll it out as thin as the rolling machine will go. Drape it over the shape you want to cover and it will dry solid in a couple of days. It is quite porous so will soak up 'canvas' coloured paints very well- and a decent pasta roller will give you a really nice texture too.

 

This is obviously a very silly thing to do, but it does work really well + you can enjoy a bowl of ravioli when you've finished modelling!

 

Will

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On 06/08/2017 at 20:35, Steve_farrier said:

For canvas I've often used a single of  J-cloth. It's slightly stronger than toilet tissues but has a similar structure. (Better I feel for canvas) :-) 

 

 

On 06/08/2017 at 20:55, Killingholme said:

It all looks satisfyingly complex- the attention to authentic colour is making a difference.

 

For canvas in this scale I usually use pasta.

 

No really- use home made pasta. Roll it out as thin as the rolling machine will go. Drape it over the shape you want to cover and it will dry solid in a couple of days. It is quite porous so will soak up 'canvas' coloured paints very well- and a decent pasta roller will give you a really nice texture too.

 

This is obviously a very silly thing to do, but it does work really well + you can enjoy a bowl of ravioli when you've finished modelling!

 

Will

Thanks for the tips. This is how the loo roll came out...

20170812_170123.jpg

 

The texture isn't right is it? So... J cloth and maybe pasta it is! We don't do home made pasta but since a tool is involved you've got me thinking it could be a good idea :idea:.

I've done a little more today - mainly priming ready for final painting:

20170811_175537.jpg

 

20170811_175548.jpg

 

20170811_175531.jpg

 

... and also started fitting some of the fiddly bits:

 

20170812_170158.jpg

 

Finally I've found myself studying this part on the ballast-box. As far as I can tell it doesn't look to be fitted to the British Army variants in my Dad's old pictures so I'm left wondering what it is and whether to remove it. In the pictures I have it actually looks like there were fire extinguishers fitted either side in these positions:

 

Ballast-Box.jpg

 

Anybody know what it is?

 

 

 

 

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Looks like a davit (to use nautical terminology) from which to suspend a pulley to handle the heavy ballast into the rear body. Presumably it 'plugs in' upright somewhere. 

 

Maybe something in the operators manual?

 

https://www.scribd.com/document/149374612/Tm-9-768-DIAMOND-T-980-AND-981-M9-TRAILER

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