Hellcat questions - and maybe an answer

[Seahawk]

Finally got round to building a Hellcat rather than pontificating on here about them.  Two queries:

 

• Can anyone give me a colour match (FS or Xtracolor would be nicest) for Grumman Gray which ISTR is used for the fuselage interior behind the cockpit bulkhead and the cowling interior?
• I thought I recalled that a diagonal strut was visible behind the Hellcat rear windows.  It is absolutely indubitably present in the upper photo on p.24 of the Detail and Scale 26.  However this may be a non-standard installation (Grumman photo, NB also non-standard horizontal frame across side window) and study of photos across D&S 26, Squadron Signal 36 and Squadron Signal Walkround 9 shows many cases when the strut was definitely not present.  Is anyone able to comment authoratively on this and in particular suggest whether there is any rhyme or reason as to which airframes it would most likely be found on?

 

A question that comes up on this forum from time to time is when in the F6F-5 production run the rear windows were deleted.  I've just noticed that the SS Walkround says (p.39) that it was from BuNo 71662.  This would mean that the changeover came in during a batch for the FAA as 71638-71712 became JX815-889 and that logically (ah, you spotted the weakness!) the first without the rear windows should have been JX839.   NB this is a bit later than suggested by Barratt Tillman who reckoned the "first 1500-2000 F6F-5s" had the rear windows.  This would mean somewhere between BuNo 70492, the 1500th Hellcat, and 70992, the 2000th.  In FAA terms this means between JW884 (which 70492 became) and JX740 (ex 71163, the first FAA aircraft after 70992).  However "the first 1500-2000 F6F-5s" sounds pretty handwavey to me so it may not be sensible to take him absolutely literally.  NB I have not as yet tested these findings against photos of FAA Hellcats, not least because open canopies often make it impossible to tell whether the windows are present or not. [Edit: I tell a lie: more precisely, such limited researches as I have so far conducted have thrown up JX841 B9L of 898 Sq as the earliest FAA Hellcat which incontrovertibly does not have rear windows: see Eyes of the Phoenix p.213.]

 

PS.  Detail on Hellcat BuNo/Serial batch correlations from United States Navy Serials 1941-1976, Mar 1977 Reprint, by the Merseyside Aviation Society.    

PPS.  Haven't been exactly deluged by replies to my related post here:

 

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235019970-late-war-faa-what-harness-type/

 

Edited April 27, 2017 by Seahawk

[Bruce Archer]

Hi!

  Grumman Grey was a primer and did have a range of colors, but a good match would be is 36640.

  As for the brace, I have not seen it on production aircraft, maybe I have missed it?

 

Bruce

[DaveCromie]

Hi Seahawk

 

Sadly I can't answer your specific questions but from building three Eduard Hellcats in 1/72 (Mk I, Mk II and NF Mk II) and in two in 1/48 (Hellcat Mk I and Mk II) I can say that the brace is included as PE in their Hellcat Mk I/Mk II Dual Combo kits in 1/72 (Link) and 1/48 (Link ) where they specify that it is solely for the Mk Is. In the 1/72 instructions they give a colour call out for the brace to be Gunze Aqueous H58/Mr Colour C27 Interior Green but in 1/48 they call out for Gunze Aqueous H51/Mr Colour C11Light Grey. The Mk IIs represented in both scales are JX814, JZ935 and JZ796 which are all after your proposed cut off point for the deletion of the rear wndows on Mk IIs.

.

Hope this of some help and I haven't caused more confusion!

 

Cheers

 

DC

[Seahawk]

Dave: thank you for reassuring me that I didn't imagine the whole brace issue.  I am working with an Eduard Weekend Edition which doesn't have the photo etch.  Unless someone comes up with a convincing story, I shall just go with the evidence from several clear shots that the brace was not there on at least the majority of production aircraft.  JX814 is of course before JX839, the first aircraft without the rear windows according to the Squadron Signal Walkround.  However I am not in a mood to trust manufacturer's research (though Eduard are better than many) or indeed anything except photos I have verified to my own satisfaction.

 

Bruce: thank you for your input.  I don't have 36640 in my FS595A fandeck (which only has amendments up to No 5).  Did you perhaps mistype for 36440, which would be Light Gull Gray?   

 

Again, thanks both for your engagement.

[LDSModeller]

11 hours ago, Seahawk said:

Dave: thank you for reassuring me that I didn't imagine the whole brace issue.  I am working with an Eduard Weekend Edition which doesn't have the photo etch.  Unless someone comes up with a convincing story, I shall just go with the evidence from several clear shots that the brace was not there on at least the majority of production aircraft.  JX814 is of course before JX839, the first aircraft without the rear windows according to the Squadron Signal Walkround.  However I am not in a mood to trust manufacturer's research (though Eduard are better than many) or indeed anything except photos I have verified to my own satisfaction.

 

Bruce: thank you for your input.  I don't have 36640 in my FS595A fandeck (which only has amendments up to No 5).  Did you perhaps mistype for 36440, which would be Light Gull Gray?   

 

Again, thanks both for your engagement.

 

Bruce typed in one too many 6's .

 

FS36440 looks like this

FS36440

 

This is actual Grumman Grey on a TBF-1c Avenger

 

Make of it what you will, usual caveat about WWII Colours and FS numbers..........

[85sqn]

Fwiw I made Hellcat MkII, JX788 B-8H of HMS Empress, 896 sqn. It doesn't have the rear windows, it has all the other features associated with a MkII.

 

 

[Dana Bell]

HI Guys,

 

I've never seen the term "Grumman Gray" in a contemporary document, though it's in common use in modeling circles.  The color was simple the same Light Gray that had appeared on the original camouflage scheme being used up as a finish coat over the primers.  That way there was no need to purchase two strocks of paint.

 

While 36440 (Light Gull Gray) is the closest 595 color, Light Gray was darker and cooler.

 

Cheers,

 

 

Dana

[Bruce Archer]

On 4/27/2017 at 1:37 PM, Seahawk said:

Dave: thank you for reassuring me that I didn't imagine the whole brace issue.  I am working with an Eduard Weekend Edition which doesn't have the photo etch.  Unless someone comes up with a convincing story, I shall just go with the evidence from several clear shots that the brace was not there on at least the majority of production aircraft.  JX814 is of course before JX839, the first aircraft without the rear windows according to the Squadron Signal Walkround.  However I am not in a mood to trust manufacturer's research (though Eduard are better than many) or indeed anything except photos I have verified to my own satisfaction.

 

Bruce: thank you for your input.  I don't have 36640 in my FS595A fandeck (which only has amendments up to No 5).  Did you perhaps mistype for 36440, which would be Light Gull Gray?   

 

Again, thanks both for your engagement.

Fat fingers strike again! It is 36440, Sorry.

 

Bruce

Edited April 28, 2017 by Bruce Archer
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