Max Headroom Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Sorry to hear about the background 'noise' that you have to endure for running what is essentially a website for people sharing their enjoyment of a harmless pass time. Im sure I speak for all of us when I say that I'm grateful to you and the Mods for the time and effort you all put into Britmodeller. You don't deserve the grief and I can't fathom their 'rationale'. Donation to the fighting fund is on its way. Trevor 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Thanks Trevor That's wasn't so much as a plea for help though, but a change of tactic. Thank you for your kind thought though. If they won't go away from sheer boredom (I think some of them look at the forums more than I do!), maybe embarrassing them will? Let people know what they've done over the years, and post up some of the many screenshots of them doing what they do best. Ignoring them certainly hasn't worked, has it? One of the things they have alleged over the years (again, with no proof) is that I bought myself a new camera with the donations from the members. This is absolutely not the case (although I did by a new camera body some years back - WITH MY OWN MONEY), and if it came to a court of law, we could demonstrate that every penny of what has been donated by the members has been accounted for on site "business". Isn't proof a wonderful thing? 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 I have been fairly active on a certain modelkitcollectingforum for years, and there we use a Software that is free (and certainly not bad), but which is at least a Generation behind the one used here (possibly more, I'm no tech expert). This and the Support for it certainly isn't for free... but I don't really intend to even go into that direction. What can certainly be said is this is a very well maintained place, both technically and regarding behaviour. Some weeks back, I was on another certain discussion board, and the bullets came from hip height from all directions. Reminded me of why I left there 11 or 12 years ago... Finally, I'm really curious - I'd love to know whom you referring to. Not by any coincidence someone who has been banned from about all Forums over the years (well that makes probably for three score candidates...)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 21 minutes ago, tempestfan said: someone who has been banned from about all Forums over the years But it's never innocent little them, is it? It's always the Jackbooted Nazi Mods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 6 hours ago, JohnT said: Chaps just so there is no confusion on this I am not suggesting that vendors are participating in any activity against Britmodeller. They are not. I'm glad we've clarified that. Duncan B 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaurieS Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 All that I can say Mike is that you run a very nice place with lots of very nice people. Loads of info and a great deal of fun. It is very sad that a minor few do not have the mental capacity to share in all of that. Their great loss. Laurie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 3 hours ago, Gorbygould said: Grow up, move on! You forgot an important Point: GET A LIFE !!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 17 hours ago, JohnT said: Exactly and effective. Cost me a fiver or thereabouts (2 coffees worth!) but was worth it. If the vendor reads this and other BM member come customers walk past too then he might think how many other sales do I lose by having a presence on a site with few members and pretty nasty ones at that Having done a quick comparison, it's either my 2.5 year old little family business or Duncan's 1 year old little family business your policy and recommendation hurts the most - NOT the individuals responsible for the attacks assuming they have any real connection with the other forum I very much suspect you refer to. We need all the exposure we can get and have a presence on many places, and you're welcome to trawl as far as you like but you will find no evidence of either of us partaking in any unprofessionalisms directed at Britmodeller or anywhere else. I am actually quite disturbed by the suggestion of being boycotted just because I paid someone a few quid to have my logo on a forum which has a few members who MAY have connections with cyber attacks that I and my company condemns. It seems that either way here I lose - reduce my exposure to the market I have paid for and need, or be boycotted. That's brilliant. It makes all the investment, stress and long hours most worthwhile. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLC1966 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 The older get, the less I understand world and some of the people in it !! But please crack on Mike with what you do for us, for the odd idiot there are thousands of people grateful for all your work. Cheers mate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 3 minutes ago, PLC1966 said: But please crack on Mike with what you do for us Crap! was I supposed to be doing something for you? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Jamie, I had already come to the same conclusion. Even if we were not the intended targets it is all too easy for folk to unintentionally make the connection we have made. I am as dismayed by the attacks on Britmodeller as anyone else and to be implicated, even by accident, is very distressing to me having worked very hard to build up a good reputation for friendly and honest service. In Retail everyone has the choice where and when to buy, it's the nature of the Industry so I have no problem with individuals exercising that choice for the right reasons. I do have a problem with individuals encouraging others to boycott 'Vendors' based on nothing other than they don't like where the 'Vendors' have exposure. I would no more condone that behaviour as I would the behaviour of the Hackers. Duncan B 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NobleSavage Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) It sounds to me like you've upset a sociopath, probably unintentionally, as sociopaths can feel aggrieved at the smallest perceived slight, they are also very good at rallying weak gullible people around them, unfortunately due to a complete absence of conscience there is no way to reason with them, if a sociopath becomes fixated with you then you're stuck with them, unless of course you can identify them, prove their malign behaviour and get a court to enforce an injunction against them. There are ways of tracking these people down, often they will confide in favourite acolytes, those acolytes are rarely sociopaths themselves and often feel genuine disgust when they finally get a peek behind the mask, and masks always slip eventually, maybe one of his ex 'followers' will volunteer some information that might help towards getting this individual/s off your back, 'white hat' hackers are also very good at tracing those behind DDOS attacks, but they don't come cheap and you need to know where to find one. Edited June 7, 2017 by NobleSavage 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 2 hours ago, NobleSavage said: It sounds to me like you've upset a sociopath, probably unintentionally, as sociopaths can feel aggrieved at the smallest perceived slight, they are also very good at rallying weak gullible people around them, unfortunately due to a complete absence of conscience there is no way to reason with them, if a sociopath becomes fixated with you then you're stuck with them, unless of course you can identify them, prove their malign behaviour and get a court to enforce an injunction against them. There are ways of tracking these people down, often they will confide in favourite acolytes, those acolytes are rarely sociopaths themselves and often feel genuine disgust when they finally get a peek behind the mask, and masks always slip eventually, maybe one of his ex 'followers' will volunteer some information that might help towards getting this individual/s off your back, 'white hat' hackers are also very good at tracing those behind DDOS attacks, but they don't come cheap and you need to know where to find one. I could tell you who else is feeling aggrieved at the prospect of PMs flying about naming his company as a trader to avoid because some genius has figured that boycotting sponsoring traders is a good way to stop someone entirely unconnected who may or may not be on another forum and may or may not be behind cyber attacks on this forum. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 4 minutes ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said: I could tell you who else is feeling aggrieved at the prospect of PMs flying about naming his company as a trader to avoid because some genius has figured that boycotting sponsoring traders is a good way to stop someone entirely unconnected who may or may not be on another forum and may or may not be behind cyber attacks on this forum. I doubt the 'Vendor' is particularly bothered about losing regular sales from someone he's never had sales from anyway! Duncan B 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 12 minutes ago, Duncan B said: I doubt the 'Vendor' is particularly bothered about losing regular sales from someone he's never had sales from anyway! Duncan B I was planning on doing some colour research work but frankly I am raging. Going to lift some weights instead. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jockster Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 I'm on several other sites too and haven't seen any BM bashing on them, I guess I've been lucky enough to choose the decent ones. On another note, Duncan and Jamie are right in what they say, it's not being fair in penalising vendors just because of where they advertise, business is business and advertising can be everything to small businesses like those of Jamie, Duncan, Mike etc.. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jockster Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 4 minutes ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said: I was planning on doing some colour research work but frankly I am raging. Going to lift some weights instead. Once my mojo has returned I will be upping my supplies of Colourcoats, I will still be sending you my pennies no matter where you advertise. I've met you, I like you and you're a decent bloke and that's all that matters to me and my wallet! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 4 minutes ago, Jockster said: Once my mojo has returned I will be upping my supplies of Colourcoats, I will still be sending you my pennies no matter where you advertise. I've met you, I like you and you're a decent bloke and that's all that matters to me and my wallet! Thank you for the dose of perspective and common sense Kev. I genuinely look forward to a longer chat this year at Telford - albeit at my own stand this time around 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jockster Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 37 minutes ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said: Thank you for the dose of perspective and common sense Kev. I genuinely look forward to a longer chat this year at Telford - albeit at my own stand this time around Aw crap! Don't bring one of those credit card reading devices, you tend to sell a lot of stuff I like to buy! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 21 hours ago, Duncan B said: I'm glad we've clarified that. Duncan B Apologies if my post came across that way Duncan. Certainly not my intent. Now that Mikes explanation is out in the open - and I have seen more of the background than the general membership - it might explain why I took the view I have. The guy has been pilloried and abused (as have others on here - ask what is perceived as a silly question and you are classed as a *******) for ages and frankly I am amazed at his patience. Some of what has been said is downright vile. I think the worst has been taken down or at least current postings are more moderated. However there are existing screen shots and if people on here saw how he had been talked about I am sure they would be as angry as I am on his behalf. Fact is we as members dont know the half of it. I am aware from conversations with Mike that at times he has nearly closed down and walked away just to get peace and quiet for himself and family. He has stuck at it because he does not want to let the members here down. I guess I feel I we all owe him for that. I can tell you the thought crossed his mind very recently. If it had been me I'd have pulled the plug years ago on the basis I didn't need the hassle and invective and just done some quiet modelling away at home. I have also read, posted on open forum elsewhere, discussions about how good it would it would be to take down this site, costs for same and so on. While all that might just be explained away as joshing, high jinks, egging on, of course no one really meant it etc etc. It is a silly thing to do as if it does happen - ie an attack on the site as the author of such posts casts a shadow of suspicion (no more) over themselves. Just silly and unworthy. My view on this is a very personal one and as the owner of a small business which is highly sensitive reputationally for work and wholly dependent on referral business from co professionals I am acutely aware of what reputational damage can be caused. I sincerely hope that none is caused to yourself or the other vendors. If I was a vendor on said site I would have a look at what goes on there and ask a question though. Does my business want to be associated with this sort of thing? Its not the odd post or poster but seems endemic. Do I want my business reputation associated with this by having a presence there? Personally I would walk but thats just my view and I respect that others may have a quite legitimate contrary view. I acknowledge that not being in the industry is also very easy for me to take that view and understand it could be a much harder call for those relying upon sales for income. For that reason I'd respect any vendor who wants to stay there. It may be a word to the site owners that continuing support may depend on acts being cleaned up and that would be one answer. Of course the whole problem goes away if these muppets just shut up and maybe peer pressure might get them to understand that the views they express are anachronistic to 98% of the rest of us and unwelcome. I hope this unpleasantness does disappear and that the continued existence of this site is secured so we can all enjoy it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 15 hours ago, Jockster said: I'm on several other sites too and haven't seen any BM bashing on them, I guess I've been lucky enough to choose the decent ones. This post is a little disingenuous Kev. You and I have always gotten along just fine, and had plenty of banter about your penchant for kilts and horrifically knobbly knees until you joined that site, but then I see you posting the following on a forum that is basically a hate site run by people that can't keep it to themselves: Quote He's a bit of a pain, that bloke over there. Too trigger happy by half. Anyway Hatter, welcome to [censored], nice to see you here. ...and in another thread where Britmodeller and my name are being rubbished, when you are told about my ex wife by someone that knows that I've never been married: Quote Wow, when did that happen? So yes. You ARE on a site where Britmodeller and it's Moderating team, self included, are routinely rubbished for all to see. Do you have a worse memory than me, or are you being economical with the truth? I expected more of you, as I thought you were a decent bloke after going out of my way to help you with your IT problems a while ago. What have I ever done to you Kev? I'd love to know. The funny thing is, the topic of that thread is our private testing site, for which I used a domain name in my possession. Someone there "stumbled" on it, and someone who knew it not to be true but said it anyway told everyone sagely that this was my ex-wife's name, when she knew full well that it was that of my mother, who doesn't use it anymore because she's left the internet due to fretting about security and old age. No. This is my ex-wife, and I've been married before (I'm not even married now!), but all is currently not rosy in the Williams household. Which came as news to Caz, my REAL other half, who is one of my staunchest supporters when it comes to these "people". Truth is something these folks don't have a chuffin' clue about Like I said yesterday. Speak to me if you'd like to hear the truth, or at least an alternative viewpoint so you can make up your own mind. Spotting the pattern yet? Their every utterance on the subject of BM and I rhyme with "dullpit". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 16 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said: I could tell you who else is feeling aggrieved at the prospect of PMs flying about naming his company as a trader to avoid because some genius has figured that boycotting sponsoring traders is a good way to stop someone entirely unconnected who may or may not be on another forum and may or may not be behind cyber attacks on this forum. Jamie I can assure you no PMs flying about. A few persons have PM'd me and I have not replied to any as too busy with work last night and again this morning. I will have the courtesy to reply to them later today but only to refer them to the several posts above making it clear that no vendors are engaged in hacking etc of BM or slagging Mike off and nothing else. I do not have the time organise boycotts or start campaigns - especially behind closed doors as its not my style. You are correct to point out that there is no proof that persons on another site who posted promoting an attack on this site are behind the recent disruption. But it was not the brightest of things for them to post though in the circumstances. No vendors have been named but I assume that you think your business may be on the site to which reference has been made. As I mentioned in my reply to Duncan above I am sure you will do what is best and I respect that. regards John 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 1 minute ago, JohnT said: Jamie I can assure you no PMs flying about. A few persons have PM'd me and I have not replied to any as too busy with work last night and again this morning. I will have the courtesy to reply to them later today but only to refer them to the several posts above making it clear that no vendors are engaged in hacking etc of BM or slagging Mike off and nothing else. I do not have the time organise boycotts or start campaigns - especially behind closed doors as its not my style. You are correct to point out that there is no proof that persons on another site who posted promoting an attack on this site are behind the recent disruption. But it was not the brightest of things for them to post though in the circumstances. No vendors have been named but I assume that you think your business may be on the site to which reference has been made. As I mentioned in my reply to Duncan above I am sure you will do what is best and I respect that. regards John Thank you for the specific response John and taking the time to do so. I am also glad to hear that no PMs are going around as it appeared would be the case from Page 3. For the record I am vehemently anti-bullying, cyber or otherwise. I haven't met Mike personally but do have some insight into the effort needed to run a site, and have previously sampled the pathetic and petty nature of some types of individuals who struggle to keep perspective on what is supposed to be a hobby after all. Did anyone have the bottle to confront Mike in person and I saw it, I assure you I'd be the first to wade in between. As you rightly surmise I (and the other traders) need all the exposure we can get. We're competing in a difficult market against both very much larger companies with far more purchasing power and/or overseas companies offering illegal services such as undisclosed postal contents or falsely represented values to evade taxes. Therefore we really do need all the exposure we can get because our trade is based upon quality, reputation and service - but above all we need the familiarity / comfort feeling of being seen wherever they go. I feel it's worth pointing out that Duncan and I both use the same webstore software package and it tells us where our visitors come from (i.e. which websites directed them to us). Many of my own customers come from the forums. Many buy things and even follow up with mails to tell me they're members of various forums. Despite growing sales the actual representation on build threads is proportionally rather small which illustrates that the majority of customers who see advertisements or threads where my stuff is used are not particularly active posters themselves - they are what you might call 'lurkers' mostly - so even where there may be a nucleus of people who engage in such talk as you describe, they're not the customers anyway and those who do come through said forum and buy stuff are looking for modelling content and usually ignoring all the personal agendas in the chatty areas anyway and they rarely post themselves even on modelling topics let alone engage in the nasty stuff. e.g. I was sent an email from a guy I am engaged in paint colour research with in Australia whom I know through the Modelwarships forum who saw my fairly recent HMS Hood completion which I posted on a few forums simultaneously on the particular forum in question offering his compliments - as far as I'm aware he has never posted anything on that forum - he was just surfing the net and looking at stuff. That seems far more typical of advertising target behaviour than those are the core of a forum. Lastly, whilst most forums ask me for an annual fee to advertise, that particular forum accepted a 1-off payment from me for permanent advertising space. Were I to walk away I'd not only lose the passing trade from the majority of good people browsing actual modelling content like most of us do, but it would actually cost that forum nothing anyway because they've had their 1-off payment. In summary, it hurts me a lot more than it hurts whoever is behind this ridiculous behaviour whilst not materially helping Mike at all - but now some more trader perspective is behind it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Wot Jamie said ^^^^^^ Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbasket Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Just so that nobody is under any misapprehension as to what I was asking for, when I asked for somebody to PM me with regards to what's in this thread, I was specifically asking for info about sites as I didn't want it to be any of the sites that I visit, and it's not. I've now received that info (thanks) and am satisfied. As for traders. I buy where I want and base my purchase on a number of things; price of item, cost of postage and most of all, experience. I don't care where you advertise, so long as it's not on some website promoting something that sounds like an alternative name for the Thames in Oxford!! John. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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