speedbird Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 I've just found a set of decals in the stash for a sundowners F-4B. I'm not prepared to pay the outrageous prices for the Fujimi or hasegawa kits.. so what's the best way to get an F4B without breaking the bank? I was wondering if the italeri F-4S could be back dated to a B. Or perhaps any F-4C/D. Would pass as a B?...what do the phantom specialists recommend, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomBigStu Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 italeri have reissued the esci f-4 as a C/D, that probably is a good bet https://www.scalemates.com/kits/978103-italeri-1373-f-4-c-d-j-phantom-ii-aces Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 (edited) C/D/J/S kits would need the wing bulges being removed, apart from loads of other differences . J and S also have the long exhausts. A cheap way to a B would be the Airfix and Revell kits, the Airfix especially should be around in abundance. But you get what you pay for, both kits being ca. 50 years old. @Stu: Italeri kits are fairly expensive around here at least, I 'd prefer paying a few Euros more and saving the conversion work. Edited April 8, 2017 by tempestfan Comment re Italeri added Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedbird Posted April 8, 2017 Author Share Posted April 8, 2017 So a C or D could pass as a B with some mods? I've got an airfix kit that I'm building as an Israeli aircraft so I should have some engine bits left over... I've got an old hasegawa kit in the scrap yard that could be refurbished. Could I start from there maybe? What woul need to be done? I'm only interested in changing obvious differences if that makes it easier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 (edited) The Airfix may not be built as an (Israeli ) E (or anything else apart from a B or N) without extensive mods. For an Israeli machine, better get some cheap E or F kit , and build the Airfix as a B. However, if your Hasegawa is their early 70s E, redo this as the Israeli bird and build the Airfix as the Sundowner. Edited April 8, 2017 by tempestfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedbird Posted April 8, 2017 Author Share Posted April 8, 2017 Cheers guys.... looks like it's the old airfix kit then.... from what I remember it's not that bad a kit and scrubs up well with a little bit of work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainpeden Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 Get an Esci c/j or the d release; use the short cans, the i/r sensor under the nose , the straight leading edge inner pylons and ignore the upper wing bulges and the result will be fine. Far more refined than the Airfix one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 As speedbird's point was the price, the Esci may be just a tad expensive. If the thick wings don't hurt, I 'd rather take the Monogram D (pylons to be altered to Navy style ) or J (short exhausts needed ). Should be cheaper (especially from a Revell rebox - I think at least one was reboxed fairly recently ) and is still more refined than the Airfix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob G Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 @speedbird PM inbound. (This forum is a PITA on phones.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exdraken Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 Maybe scale eould help? 1/48? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 1/72 - no Airfix Phantom in 48th, and no Fujimi B. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedbird Posted April 9, 2017 Author Share Posted April 9, 2017 Well I was going to go down the route suggested by tempestfan, IE build the airfix kit as a B and find a cheap E or F to build as an Israeli machine but the airfix kit seems to be getting a slating. Apart from the pit being a little bit empty, how bad is the kit in terms of shape? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 Didn't Monogram do a C? Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 18 minutes ago, Max Headroom said: Didn't Monogram do a C? I Gentlmen's Scale, Monogram did a C/D and a J, but both featured the thick wing. Another route could be asking around in the Wanted section for someone who as built Hasegawa's RF-4B as a thick winged example - that kit comes with two full sets of wings, both with and without bulges. Cheers, Andre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theplasticsurgeon Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 (edited) I found almost the same situation when I inherited a load of the old Hasegawa Phantom parts. Thin wings, directed me to a B or N aircraft, and I had decals for this F-4B in my leftovers. No cockpit bits or undercarriage, and I wasn't bothered about jet pipe length. Does it look like a Phantom? As for the Airfix model - well it's not great. This one was originally built about 1975, I refurbished it in 2008 as Olds1, from that same decal sheet. Edited April 11, 2017 by theplasticsurgeon More info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre B Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 (edited) I wouldn't go for the Airfix kit as it is one of the badest kits found in the market. It's something between an F4H-1 (the prototype) and an F-4 "something". It's rude an simple. Far worser than the Matchbox kit. Instead I would go for an Esci or Revell/Monogram kit (F-4B or F-4J). They are for sure much better kits and could be found for cheap... The only thing that would make me get an Airfix F-4 Phantom is the decals from the second edition wich is nice concerning VF-74. But this kit is still the oldest on the market with moulds from 1965... /Andréhttp://www.militarymodelling.com/news/article/f-4j-phantom-ii-in-1-72/24438http://www.kingkit.co.uk/search.php http://airfixtributeforum.myfastforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=966 Edited April 10, 2017 by Andre B 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Evil Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 Agreed, Airfix kit is terrible. The only real options are Hasegawa which is regularly on offer on offer on Luckymodel, or a very much 2nd best in Fujimi. All other kits on the market are either the wrong version or pants. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainpeden Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 14 hours ago, Dr Evil said: Agreed, Airfix kit is terrible. The only real options are Hasegawa which is regularly on offer on offer on Luckymodel, or a very much 2nd best in Fujimi. All other kits on the market are either the wrong version or pants. Afraid this will be heresy to some but the I don't like the Hasegawa kit because it is far too fiddly with lots of things to potentialy go wrong. Having got 170+ 1/72 Phantoms on the shelves this is my summing up. Airfix - a kit of its time with the moulds nearly 50 years old; the plastic is very thick, there are no inter-cockpit windows and detail is sparse. However, dad and I made over 100 because they were all that was available in the 70's Frog/ (old)Hasegawa - covered in rivets and 50 years old. Fujimi - I think it's marketed as an "N" - simple and easy to build; thin wings (the N was a modified B). Looks fine when finished (new - ish) Hasegawa; seperate front and rear fuselage can make construction tricky, thin wings if you get the right one (B/N), lots of tiny bits to stick together all at risk of disappearing into the carpet monster. Esci C/J/D - straightforward and ok if you are happy with the slightly thicker wing bulge and are not a sticker for mperfection. Monogram C/J - I have never got the intake to fuselage join right and I think it has raised detail. That's my 5 penny worth, I love Phantoms and the markings thereon, for me modelling is a hobby and I make to a deent but not comp standard and if it looks clean and "right" that will do for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 On 09.04.2017 at 0:54 PM, Andre B said: I wouldn't go for the Airfix kit as it is one of the badest kits found in the market. It's something between an F4H-1 (the prototype) and an F-4 "something". It's rude an simple. Far worser than the Matchbox kit. Instead I would go for an Esci or Revell/Monogram kit (F-4B or F-4J). They are for sure much better kits and could be found for cheap... The only thing that would make me get an Airfix F-4 Phantom is the decals from the second edition wich is nice concerning VF-74. But this kit is still the oldest on the market with moulds from 1965... /Andréhttp://www.militarymodelling.com/news/article/f-4j-phantom-ii-in-1-72/24438http://www.kingkit.co.uk/search.php http://airfixtributeforum.myfastforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=966 Bear in mind the context of what speedbird wanted - a CHEAP B. The cheapest B he has is the Airfix kit, as HE HAS IT, and he intended to build it as an E which the kit does represent quite a lot worse than a B. And that's what it is, a very early B (aka F4H-1 - the protos had various hugely differing configurations the kit hasn't). It has the big Diameter radome and raised Cockpit, albeit perhaps not quite raised enough. Yes, the kit is the oldest and currently least good Phantom on the 72nd market. Historically, there have been worse kits, like Ian said the old Hase "J"/"K" which is thin wing and an absolute atrocity. Monogram never made a B, using the D or J as I suggested as a cheap alternative entails the thick wings, as with the Esci C/J kit. My experience is that original Escis aren't that cheap, and Italeri reissues are rather expensive. Yes, they are better kits, but they aren't B's ... BTW, a new canopy would dramatically improve the Airfix kit, if it can be made to fit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainpeden Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 Sell the Airfix one on e-bay (because SOMEBODY will be buy it) and invest in something else. By the way converting an S to a B is a major job because the S (or most of them) had extended leading edge slats and the thick wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 The S is a new one to the equation, I think. Not sure if Esci had one (could be, in the J (UK) boxing), Monogram certainly didn't, but it would add the Italeri (their own tool) to the choice (or did they only do a 48th one?). Not a stellar kit, but a solid one. Still with thick wings, as has been mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainpeden Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 Tempest fan, speed bird mentioned the S in the first post. Esci did a J/S boxing which included markings for an RAF 74 squadron machine and a Low viz US aircraft. Their E boxing had the slats separate so could be made into an early hard wing or a later soft wing aircraft and they used the mouldings for the slats and underwing actuators for the S. Again , not 100% perfect but near enough for most and they look right when finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedbird Posted April 10, 2017 Author Share Posted April 10, 2017 Totally confused now 😳🤔 regardless of how good bad or ugly the airfix kit is, I think it's probably the simplest option. I have the kit in the stash so I may as well use it and the money saved by not buying another kit to convert to a B means I can a Japanese version. Thanks forgot he help and advise folks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantome Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 You can get a Fujimi F-4B on eBay for anything between £10-20. That's less than a round of pints these days. Why waste good decals on a mediocre kit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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