HELP! Hurricane & BF109E Experts - Identification Help

[Niles]

9 hours ago, BIG X said:

...but nothing about the poor beggar in the 109

 

Considering the course of the years to come the "poor beggars" who were shot down and taken prisoner during the Battle of Britain were the fortunate ones.

[BIG X]

7 minutes ago, Niles said:

 

Considering the course of the years to come the "poor beggars" who were shot down and taken prisoner during the Battle of Britain were the fortunate ones.

Wise words Niles...

 

Someone on here has a tag line that goes something like this...

 

"Only the dead know the end of war" - or something similar - it stops you & makes you think...

 

That is the main reason I like to research what I build - to give it some context in my mind & remind me that real people fought & often lost their lives in the "toy planes" that I build.  I respect them all.

[mhaselden]

Barry Walding did a painting of MacKenzie's unorthodox way of downing the Me109, entitled "MacKenzie's Knock".  I have a copy at home but this pic may help with Walding's interpretation of how the Me109 appeared...again, it's just an artist's impression but done with the cooperation of Wg Cdr MacKenzie:

 

 

The image came from the Legends Aviation Gallery (http://www.legendsaviationgallery.co.uk/gallery/view_products.php?prod_id=599&cat=10&pagenum=4).  I have no connection with the sale or the company. 

 

HTH,

Mark

[AndyL]

When you read McKenzie's combat report, the engagement with Meyer along with Squadron Leader Hogan, and the deliberate ramming of the 109 are two different incidents.

 

The ramming itself took place between 70 and 100 feet above the sea, and the 109 span in, and floated for a while. McKenzie was then attacked, and hit by other 109's heading back across the Channel. He had to perform evasive manoeuvres at around 30 feet off the sea to get away; but the Hurricane had been hit in the engine and cockpit, causing him to force land.

The Luftwaffe lost eight Bf 109's that day - five crashing on land. The Bf109 of Ltn. Meyer claimed by Hogan and McKenzie as mentioned earlier; plus two more came down in the sea, those being one from 9/JG27 that is listed as ditched and the pilot rescued by Seenotdienst, and the Bf 109 of Uffz. Heinrich Bley from 4/LG2 who was taken PoW with slight injuries. For reference, Bley's Bf 109 was coded +A with WrNr, 5391.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[BIG X]

3 hours ago, mhaselden said:

Barry Walding did a painting of MacKenzie's unorthodox way of downing the Me109, entitled "MacKenzie's Knock".  I have a copy at home but this pic may help with Walding's interpretation of how the Me109 appeared...again, it's just an artist's impression but done with the cooperation of Wg Cdr MacKenzie:

 

 

The image came from the Legends Aviation Gallery (http://www.legendsaviationgallery.co.uk/gallery/view_products.php?prod_id=599&cat=10&pagenum=4).  I have no connection with the sale or the company. 

 

HTH,

Mark

Cheers Mark - Lovely picture - thanks for sharing - that is how I was beginning to imagine it - yellow rudder & yellow not all over the nose - but on the under side of the cowling - I was imaging a yellow nose cone - but this looks good - looks like this may make a fantastic "dogfight double".

[BIG X]

2 hours ago, AndyL said:

When you read McKenzie's combat report, the engagement with Meyer along with Squadron Leader Hogan, and the deliberate ramming of the 109 are two different incidents.

 

The ramming itself took place between 70 and 100 feet above the sea, and the 109 span in, and floated for a while. McKenzie was then attacked, and hit by other 109's heading back across the Channel. He had to perform evasive manoeuvres at around 30 feet off the sea to get away; but the Hurricane had been hit in the engine and cockpit, causing him to force land.

The Luftwaffe lost eight Bf 109's that day - five crashing on land. The Bf109 of Ltn. Meyer claimed by Hogan and McKenzie as mentioned earlier; plus two more came down in the sea, those being one from 9/JG27 that is listed as ditched and the pilot rescued by Seenotdienst, and the Bf 109 of Uffz. Heinrich Bley from 4/LG2 who was taken PoW with slight injuries. For reference, Bley's Bf 109 was coded +A with WrNr, 5391.

 

Regards

 

Andy

Thanks Andy - encyclopaedic as always.  Whilst I wait on my Defiant project I think this little vignette would make a smashing build.  The "back story" is as important to me a the models themselves.  Thankfully these two guys lived to tell the tale.

Cheers,

Steve

[BIG X]

I have just found this on here - it just goes to show - whatever you build - you won't be the first...

I have to say that the plastic surgeons work is to a much higher standard than mine - well done

[Miggers]

20 hours ago, BIG X said:

Wise words Niles...

 

Someone on here has a tag line that goes something like this...

 

"Only the dead know the end of war" - or something similar - it stops you & makes you think...

 

That is the main reason I like to research what I build - to give it some context in my mind & remind me that real people fought & often lost their lives in the "toy planes" that I build.  I respect them all.

Steve, you sound like my kind of bloke.

 

You like to model an "historical-snapshot-in-time" and put the work in to get there.

I'll have a shufty into my B of B "gen" and see if I can turn up anything more for you,but I think the boys have pretty well goit taped for you.

[BIG X]

just found this ace photo too - of the damaged wing tip of the down Hurricane - is this the pilot perhaps? or someone involved in the recovery...

 

[BIG X]

1 minute ago, Miggers said:

Steve, you sound like my kind of bloke.

 

You like to model an "historical-snapshot-in-time" and put the work in to get there.

I'll have a shufty into my B of B "gen" and see if I can turn up anything more for you,but I think the boys have pretty well goit taped for you.

Hi Miggers - I think your right - the boys & girls on here always go the extra mile to help out & it is very much appreciated.  I love this particular story as both guys made it out alive & survived the war - brilliant!!!

 

I am working on another project featuring either a lone defiant or the "million to one chance" - a defiant & a dornier 17.  AndyL has been helping out with this & has provided tons of background info on a distant relative of mine - who met his fate in a defiant - but had a few days earlier had taken down a Dornier (along with his gunner of course) in the famous "Goodwin Sands Dornier" raid.  Sadly up to now no code letter can be found for either of these 2 defiants even though we have the serial numbers - but I live in hope & Andy has been a saint.  He is researching for a book he is writing about defiants - which I will definitely want a signed copy of that - when it comes out.