photos/details wanted for FW 190D-9 Blue 10 Jg 26

[smeosky]

Greetings, all. I am in the long arduous process of deciding on a color/marking scheme for my 1/32 Hasegawa Fw-190D-9. My intent is to find a unique subject that hasn't had much exposure. The EagleCals series are great but I've found allot of other appealing schemes sorting through online material, particularly Wings Palette archive.

http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/f/456/2/5

I recently came across Blue 10 from 4./JG 26 flown by and really like it. Something about the blue lettering / color combo that does it for me! There doesn't seem to be much material about this aircraft or the pilot (Ogefr.Karl-Heinz Braunert). I am told the Wrk Nmr is 210955:

Other than a war thunder skin and mentioning of the pilot and plane in 'Bodenplatte: The Luftwaffe's last Hope', i can not find anything else. Its a shot in the dark but can anyone shed any light on this particular aircraft? I know late war Luftwaffe ac are a hodgepodge of guesswork but I'm curious to know any other resources that may have more info to determine what color scheme it had and how accurate this depiction is. Thank you for any help you can lend,

Steve

Edited March 31, 2017 by smeosky
Making subject heading more approrpiate

[Troy Smith]

you want Japo Fw 190D markings Vol I and II or maybe the Jerry Crandall Fw190D books.   

 

I have the JaPo books,  but they are behind some others. I don't have the  Crandall, the Japo are OOP and expensive if you can find them....

 

the Japo books are jaw dropping, as they attempt to match up werk nummer to which sub contractor built the plane, and the typical style of each batch.

 

the posted profile looks like a JaPo, note the leading underside of the wing and gear doors are in RLM 81 ....  I'll see how much effort it is to get to the books....

 

more later

T

 

....later (books gettable)

 

the profile has Wrk Nmr 210955, this is Fw  built plane.

the JaPo book has this being shot down by AA fire on operation Bodenplatte on jan 1, 1945, and the airframe being destroyed.

No photo or profile in the book.

 

I'd have a look here

https://www.asisbiz.com/Fw-190D.html

 

note the first column notes if there is a photo

 

one of the  best documented D9's is 'blue 12' 

the Japo book has  14  photos, 4 in  color

 

from

http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?showtopic=38097&page=4

 

but  note the debate on camo and markings!

 

It should  be noted that Dave  Wadman (mentioned in link) and Jerry Crandall are both members  here.

 

If you want stone hard documented 190D-9's then the only real two  are  the D-9 at the NASM,   or  the D-9 pulled out of Lake Schwerin, Werknummer 210 968

http://www.daedalus-berlin.de/Fw190D9_bergung.htm

 

I suggest going to  'edit' then 'full edit' and change  the thread topic to something  like 

"photos/details wanted for  fw 190D-9 Blue 10 Jg 26 Wrk Nmr 210955"

 

as that hopefully will get the real 190 nuts posting.

 

re your original question

Quote

I know late war Luftwaffe ac are a hodgepodge of guesswork but I'm curious to know any other resources that may have more info to determine what color scheme it had and how accurate this depiction is

 

the JaPo has details of the typical factory scheme  of this  batch, note that the Lake Schwerin plane, Werknummer 210 968, was from  the same batch as 210955

 

But IMO, find a scheme that is properly documented,  my sig line is my motto 

 

HTH

T

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 31, 2017 by Troy Smith
add details and links

[Tbolt]

There's no reference to Blue 10 )or an aircraft with that werk no.) in the index in the Crandall Dora books, so I guess there wasn't much info around on Blue 10 when these were published, so there might not be much out there.

Edited March 31, 2017 by Tbolt

[smeosky]

Thank you Tbolt and Troy for the assistance. Troy, thank you very much for digging up and sharing this info! Unfortunately I had a chance to get one of the JaPo books on ebay for a good price and I let it get away. Interesting that this Wrk Nmr Isn't listed in Crandall's book and is also not in the JaPo book?! Now Im more interested in where this illustration came from!  Is it safe to say the depiction here is almost completely guesswork? Perhaps the artist rendered it this way based off of what the specification was known of the Focke Wulf factory. Troy, does the JaPo book say what the color combination is from this batch coming out of the FWC factory? Judging from the photos it looks like rlm 82/83 combo along w a majority of fuselage and undersides being blue / green rlm 76. Good observation on the rlm 81 front wing edges, I had assumed they were rlm 75.  I am unable to find much info on the Lake Schwerin D-9, other than a handful of recovery photos. My thought now is if there is this little to go on I may find another subject, but if I can get some reasonable assurance on this plane and rough color scheme it may result in a very unique Dora. Thanks again for the help, guys

Steve

[Troy Smith]

Hi Steve

, 

Sorry if i  wasn't  clear

Quote

the profile has Wrk Nmr 210955, this is Fw  built plane.

the JaPo book has this being shot down by AA fire on operation Bodenplatte on jan 1, 1945, and the airframe being destroyed.

No photo or profile in the book.

the JaPo book has a table of of Fw 190D-9  losses,  which lists 210955 as above.

 

details probably are in a British aircraft crash report (can't remember the official term)  and/or noted in Luftwaffe loss reports,  which would list the Wrk Nmr and unit and number.

 

The profile shows the RLM 81 leading edges, but the fw 190 built batch does not have that.  I don't think the profile is very good, but it's not terribly bad.

 

Current thinking says that RLM 83 is a  blue, and "RLM 83 dark green" is a green variation of RLM 81, 

see 

frustratingly the only shots I have seen of the Lake Schwerin D-9  Wrk.Nr 210968 are the ones in the link, ( though I believe there  are in one of the Crandall books, ) 

 

I'll try to get camera, photo hosting and book to co-operate later and dig out details of Fw 190 210*** batch.

 

cheers

T

 

 

 

 

[longweight]

I think Blue 10 may be a bird of another colour.

However there was a very nice Blue 9 (thin white outline) for which there are 1/48 and 1/32 decals.

Then theres the famous blue 1 & 2. a quick canter through Google Land throws up a few other blue numbers.

Heres a couple to be going on with.  BTW I have both the jaPo and Crandall 2 volume sets ...if youre a 190D tragic they are a must have.

 

http://falkeeins.blogspot.com.au/2011/06/ivjg-3-fw-190-d-9-blue-2-prenzlau.html

 

https://www.1001modelkits.com/focke-wulf-fw-190-model-kit/54417-eagle-cal-eag48057-focke-wulf-fw-190d-9-4-yellow-15-7-jg301-red-yellow-fuselage-band-blue-9-ii-jg6-rlm-81-83-76-black-.html

Also 'falke eins' blog spot is a good place to ask for further info.

HTH John H

[MDriskill]

It's hard to be too dogmatic about this late-war Luftwaffe stuff of course--but I don't believe JG 26 used blue numbers? 

 

So, I believe longweight is probably correct. JG 26 did use a very distinctive pale brown color (as an alternative to yellow used in other units), which might be mistaken for blue in a B&W photo. "Brown 10" would therefore be my semi-educated guess for this machine. The JaPo books have a very nice profile of a II./JG 26 "brown 9" with a fairly near, FW-built serial, for what it's worth.

[Troy Smith]

The JaPo book lists W.Nr 210955 as Blue 10  of 4/JG 26 (loss lists, page 200 JaPo Vol.1) shot down by British AA, at Vremde, (4 NM SE, Antwerp)

 

So it is a confirmed serial and number,  what is not confirmed is if there are any photos.   As i suggested the profile is based on the above information, but I'd not trust on details, 

 

8/JG 26 are shown as having blue numbers in May 1945, (profiles on page 424 JaPo Vol.2 ,but no Black/Whit bands, the numbers have a thin white outline.

 

 

the details I'm dubious about are the RLM 81 leading  edges (this batch has rlm 76 undersides), the lack of outlines on numbers, the non symmetric JG 26  band, (though there is an example of this on page 61 Japo vol.1)  though the cross and swastika style are correct.

 

more later

T

 

[smeosky]

I originally found this image from the Wings Palette website and looking closer, here are the credentials behind it:

Artist: © Arkadiusz Wrobel
Source: Aero 7/2008. Magazyn lotniczy. ISSN 1896-3951

Aero is a Polish aviation magazine and it looks like this issue goes back pretty far (2008). The artist looks very established in the realm of military / aviation though. Though it doesn't seem likely we'll be able to find out the credibility of this source unless by a fluke someone here has this issue. Unfortunately I feel pretty unhelpful on colors / markings of particular units. I wish the JaPo and Crandall books were more accessible. 

Perhaps it's best I let Blue 10 remain anonymous and focus on a more familiar bird. I do enjoy detective work like this but my resources are so limited. If any of you have any other tidbits of info please keep sharing. Thank you for the help so far, guys

Steve

[MDriskill]

On April 4, 2017 at 4:08 PM, Troy Smith said:

The JaPo book lists W.Nr 210955 as Blue 10  of 4/JG 26 (loss lists, page 200 JaPo Vol.1) shot down by British AA, at Vremde, (4 NM SE, Antwerp)

 

So it is a confirmed serial and number,  what is not confirmed is if there are any photos.   As i suggested the profile is based on the above information, but I'd not trust on details, 

 

8/JG 26 are shown as having blue numbers in May 1945, (profiles on page 424 JaPo Vol.2 ,but no Black/White bands, the numbers have a thin white outline.

 

Thanks Troy--I did not read your original post closely enough to understand that JaPo had covered both the serial and the side number/color (doubly bad as I own the book!).

 

But as you also point out, I have a hunch the combination of un-outlined blue numbers and the black-white tailband, per the "Wings Palette" profile, a bit of a stretch for JG 26. Perhaps the artist--as did I in my last post--used one of the earlier brown-numbered machines as inspiration.

[Milos Gazdic]

Dear Smeosky, 
how I approach my selection for the subjects of my models is by going through decals available to me & trying to match them with the references, predominantly photographs & texts, followed by the profiles! Profiles can often be misleading even if done by the best aviation artists. There are so many interesting a/c which are quite well covered in photographs & even profiles that don't have decals made for them by any of the companies... and on the other hand - there are so many a/c which have been covered by multiple decal companies in the same (or all) scale(s).
I quite trust to JaPo's approach in which they match the WNr. & style applied to that WNr. and factory that build it as Troy already mentioned above but each airframe could have some special traits only applicable to that airframe and such things cannot be known without photos... so I restrain myself from building machines that are not (clearly) documented at least with one photo. Educated guesses are great but references are there to (often) prove us wrong