Bullbasket Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 54 minutes ago, Panzer Vor!!! said: In New Orleans the statures of General Lee and any Civil war figure are being removed as they are now deemed racist and offensive I rest my case! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds. Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 56 minutes ago, Panzer Vor!!! said: In New Orleans the statures of General Lee and any Civil war figure are being removed as they are now deemed racist and offensive Such a shame. In two generations time Americans will no doubt think that General Lee is a red car with a fit blonde women driving it and the Civil war was a courtroom battle, much as many young Brits now think Churchill sells car insurance and the Falklands are a Spanish resort island. How does this teach us anything other than the world we live in is false. Also at the current rate Remembrance Day may be no more due to those that were there and those that were taught it's significance are no longer with us and that is an affront to those whom gave their all for every one of us. Who makes these edicts anyway? I do feel passionate about this Pc world in which we live, as one groups feelings are tempered another's are frayed. Black and White, up and down, left or right, in or out, backward or forward etc,etc. we need them all. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 4 hours ago, Bullbasket said: Well said. Couldn't agree more. Too many people just want to sweep the bad things under the carpet instead of facing them full on. If you don't speak the offending word, how are younger generations going to know that the derogatory use of it is a completely unacceptable thing. I mean, if we didn't murder people, how would anyone learn murder was wrong? 3 hours ago, Head in the clouds. said: Such a shame. In two generations time Americans will no doubt think that General Lee is a red car with a fit blonde women driving it and the Civil war was a courtroom battle It's clear you're not from here and you have no understanding of us. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Vor!!! Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Just now, Procopius said: I mean, if we didn't murder people, how would anyone learn murder was wrong? Its the only thing saving my next door neighbor when he parks on my space 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Just now, Panzer Vor!!! said: Its the only thing saving my next door neighbor when he parks on my space Well, you should kill him, instead of sweeping murder under the carpet, or your children will never understand it's a wicked thing to do, and bang, murders everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Vor!!! Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Yes I have thought about it but what holds me back is the fact hes not number one on the list I dont have children we had them for Christmas dinner when we couldn,t get a Turkey 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbasket Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 12 minutes ago, Procopius said: I mean, if we didn't murder people, how would anyone learn murder was wrong? That's complete BS. You know as well as I do that kids don't always understand right from wrong. And if you start sanitising everything from the word go, they won't learn. Thank goodness we've got Panzer Vor to keep it light. I trust you had cranberry sauce with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Vor!!! Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Thank goodness we've got Panzer Vor to keep it light. I trust you had cranberry sauce with them Good greif no what do you think i am a heathen ?? Sage and onion stuffing with roast parsnips potatoes and cabbage Lovely !! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 If the word is so offensive to people, why do the people offended by it use it so much, especially the so called comedians. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbasket Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 ........and "Rap artists"! But I suppose it's ok for them because they're celebs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cngaero Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 3 hours ago, Panzer Vor!!! said: Thank goodness we've got Panzer Vor to keep it light. I trust you had cranberry sauce with them Good greif no what do you think i am a heathen ?? Sage and onion stuffing with roast parsnips potatoes and cabbage Lovely !! What, no sprouts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, Bullbasket said: You know as well as I do that kids don't always understand right from wrong. And if you start sanitising everything from the word go, they won't learn. Yeah, I'm a parent, and I'd be an awful one if I thought my kid needed to hear the casual use of a racial slur in a movie to learn it was wrong. 1 hour ago, colin said: If the word is so offensive to people, why do the people offended by it use it so much, especially the so called comedians. Ah yes, the "other people are doing it, so why can't I have a little fun?" argument. I'm going to let you in on a little secret: not everyone who's offended by the word uses it. As I've said, the USA has a long and bloody history with the word. Maybe it's not possible to really drive home the force it hits with to someone who lives in a country where slavery was simply voted out of legality, and that until the 1950s, had fewer than a million non-white people residing there. The USA has a very different history with ethnic minorities, and like it or not, that's colored the national perception of the word. It's like me wearing orange on St Patrick's Day here; it means absolutely nothing, even in Chicago, one of the most Irish-Catholic cities in America; there are parts of Londonderry where it'd be an incredibly different proposition. Using the dog's name would change irrevocably what the movie was about to American audiences -- and in other countries too. Do you really want the story around Dambusters to be that the British Empire was a bunch of casually racist bullies, or would you prefer people focused on the gallant aircrew of 617 Squadron's heroism? 40 minutes ago, Bullbasket said: ........and "Rap artists"! But I suppose it's ok for them because they're celebs. I think you'll find that most popular musicians since the Rolling Stones or so have from time-to-time used words in songs that, spoken to a stranger, might end in fisticuffs. The use of the word in rap songs is actually pretty hotly debated in this country; there's far from across the board approval of it. There are things one Irishman may call another that if spoken by an Englishman could cause offence as well. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds. Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 28 minutes ago, cngaero said: What, no sprouts? The world has gone mad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cngaero Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Head in the clouds. said: The world has gone mad! A definite slipping of standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds. Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, Procopius said: Do you really want the story around Dambusters to be that the British Empire was a bunch of casually racist bullies, And there is the truth of it Procopius, we were just that, we ruled 1/3 of the Earths land mass and nearly 1/2 it's population and we did not do it by invitation, but because I was taught history with all it's uncomfortable truths I was able to learn what was wrong with the decisions of the past and take a better path for the future. History has been and gone and cannot be changed, unlike the future. Let history be my teacher, the future my judge. Now where is the tomato sauce to go with my Christmas dinner? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevej60 Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 The thing is there's no reason at all to use the dog's (now controversial) name in the film even with the dog present and if thread's like this didn't mention it I doubt 99% of film fan's would even be aware of the controversy, I'm more concerned we get a true to life film and not a Pearl Harbour like cartoon sadly there have been some superb subject's that cried out for a saving private Ryan quality telling Like Fly boy's and Red tail's but the money men decided Joe Public didn't want the truth without the Hollywood touch,still at least Mel Gibson won't have any input and airbrush the British out of the story altogether! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTiger66 Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 This is a superb debate. I'm on no way wimping out, but my concerns err more towards those voiced by Steve. Given Peter's other commitments, I'm concerned that it may not be made, or completed at all. He's not as old as Ridley Scott, currently another director that seems very over committed, but I sometimes wonder what crystal ball these directors have that assures them they have 'x' number of years ahead of them? That aside, This could be such a wonderful film. There are many superb personal stories to be told and a number of nationalities represented by the aircrews, giving a wide appeal to the movie. Air warfare movies appear (I could be wrong) to suffer more from 'Hollywood sanitisation', than those regarding ground forces. It would be good to see the story depicted as close to its true, harrowing, frankly almost incredulous nature as possible. How they flew all that way, that low, with no lights (of course no GPS !) and managed to get anywhere near the target, then for any to return home at all, beggars belief to this day. TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Vor!!! Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 4 hours ago, cngaero said: What, no sprouts? The kids didn't like Sprouts seemed cruel somehow to put them on the same plate as them I,m not totality without feelings But to be honest you should not put today's morals on yesterday Different age Different People Different attitudes By leaning from our mistakes we grow and develop You put your hand in the fire get burned You don,t do it twice 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e8n2 Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 20 hours ago, Bullbasket said: bunch of extreme right wing looneys have used it as their emblem John. Sorry, the Nazis were extreme LEFT Wing looneys. It is right in the name of their party, the National SOCIALIST Party of Germany. The Germans have had socialist tendencies dating back to at least Bismarck when the government started providing health care. Later, Dave 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitestar12chris Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 Just to add my five penny worth, The word Nigger was based on the latin Niger, meaning shining black, this was as my grandparents understood it, who coincidently also had a black labrador named Rex. Its been perverted and used as a racial slur with the origin of the name lost in translation, as so do so many things from the past tend to be by ignorance. Latin Etymology Uncertain origin[1], but possibly from Proto-Indo-European *nókʷts (“night”). Pronunciation (Classical) IPA(key): /ˈni.ɡer/, [ˈnɪ.ɡɛr] Adjective niger m (feminine nigra, neuter nigrum); first/second declension shining black (as opposed to ater, dull black) Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbasket Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 3 hours ago, e8n2 said: Sorry, the Nazis were extreme LEFT Wing looneys. It is right in the name of their party, the National SOCIALIST Party of Germany. The Germans have had socialist tendencies dating back to at least Bismarck when the government started providing health care. Later, Dave If you're going to quote me, quote all of it. That way you'd see that I'd started another sentence which included the words "St.George" and "Union Jack" and was referring to the BNP without actually mentioning them. I think that you'll find that they are right wing. John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Knight Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 Please; stop the politics. It will get this thread closed down pretty pronto 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Vor!!! Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Black Knight said: Please; stop the politics. It will get this thread closed down pretty pronto HEAR HEAR WELL SAID THAT MAN !!!! Oh by the way i don,t have kids or a wife No woman would put up with my madness Presentable never sensible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old thumper Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 (edited) On 5/21/2017 at 6:35 PM, Procopius said: Do you really want the story around Dambusters to be that the British Empire was a bunch of casually racist bullies, or would you prefer people focused on the gallant aircrew of 617 Squadron's heroism? I take your point and I think it is probably for the best that this word is left out of the dialogue as it is not worth all the trouble and controversy. Having said that I think it is important that we as Brits don't try to make ourselves look better than we actually were by hiding this sort of thing. Misgivings aside, rightly or wrongly it is simply just not possible to use this word in this day and age. You get my vote. 18 hours ago, e8n2 said: Sorry, the Nazis were extreme LEFT Wing looneys. It is right in the name of their party, the National SOCIALIST Party of Germany. The Germans have had socialist tendencies dating back to at least Bismarck when the government started providing health care. Later, Dave East Germany was known as the German Democratic Republic or DDR for short but was far from Democratic. The inclusion of the word Socialist in National Socialist Party does not mean a single thing and everybody knows it. Do you think that hot dogs have dogs in them? Edited May 23, 2017 by old thumper 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 On 13/04/2017 at 1:25 AM, Harley John said: Don't think there is any need to "reinterpret" the story is there? Just tell it as accurately as possible. Revolutionary concept there. Do you think it will catch on? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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