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larchiefeng

Pocher F40 with Autograph transkit upgrade challenge build

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I spent most of the day with a small file carefully working the vent openings. The Dremel was good for doing the initial work but, it did get a little loose a couple of times and that, required some slow file work to try and fix the goofs.

Rear body after filing and sanding with 320 and 400 wet dry sandpaper.

 

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After a while, actually a long while, I felt that I needed to get some primer on so, I could see if and where I still have problems. So, I shot it and everything else but, the main body primer. Tomorrow, I'll finish sanding it and shoot a coat of primer on it. Then, I can go over all the pieces and see what still needs to be done after a quick sanding with some 600 wet dry sandpaper.

 

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The last one was a little out of focus but, it shows the rear lower body panel with the other 9 vents opened up. If I had to do it again, I'm not so sure that, I would. On top of that, I'm still contemplating opening up the hood like Pascal did on the Barchetta for the center air intake. I've seen quite a few LM versions and one has the just the center opened up without sealing the flip up headlights and opening up the lower headlights more. I know that Pascal has done extensive work on the front bonnet but, I don't know how he intends to fabricate the clear lens covers. So, I doubt that, I will even attempt it.

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If you want to build an LM (or GT or GTE), you're in for a ton of work. It would also mean that a lot of the parts from the transkit can't be used. There was a Autograph / Scaleautoworks F40LM transkit :

 

http://www.scaleautoworks.com/F40LM.htm

 

But I've never seen that transkit in real live, and the pictures on the website show that it doesn't have all the parts to build a true LM.

 

There is another way,  you can go for an F40 that has an LM "look". Like this one :

 

https://startinggrid.org/2011/08/29/silver-ferrari-f40-lm/

 

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It's not a true LM (has a standard interior, suspension; etc.) but it has extras that make it look like an LM.

 

My 2 cents : if you want to build an LM : get yourself a cheap 1/18 scale Bburago F40 and modify it with parts from tremonia.org

 

I'm building a couple of those (1 will become the silver F40 pictured above), it's very hard to find good reference pics of the same LM, and every LM has mods added by the team / owner.

 

Sincerely

 

Pascal

 

 

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Thanks guys, I've pretty much already decided that, given the amount of work required on the body to convert this to an LM version that, that alone is making my decision to leave it alone and just build it as a regular F40. 

Of course, using the transkit and doing a color change already puts it as anything but, a regular Pocher F40 build. It's not like there's already enough to do without going off on another tangent! I'm going to have to leave the major transformation building to Pascal and his great Barchetta build. I have enough on my plate and I would like to build another model after this one but, if this had a plastic body then...........?

Well, back to reality. Today, I'm going to finish all the primer and finish sanding and prep everything for paint. The temperatures are still a bit cold to be spraying the color coats yet so, for now at least the body will be primed and ready when the time comes. 

I have decided to build up the PE radiator and get the front frame mounting brackets straightened out before going any further with connecting the suspension arms and shocks. I'm going to finish all those bits and have them ready once the radiator is sorted out though. 

This should be enough to keep me busy for today. I'll post some progress pictures later this evening.

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I spent quite a bit of time working on the main cabin and a lot of it was on the inside getting every last bit of red paint off and grinding down the ejector pin marks as best that, I could where they might sow through on the headliner. The day was also spent doing other chores so, I didn't get as much time on some of the other areas as I wanted. However, the body is completely in primer now and everything looks smooth and other than a light sanding in 600 grit or higher wet dry sandpaper it's ready for paint.

 

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Everything ready to go

 

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On 17-4-2017 at 4:29 AM, larchiefeng said:

 I don't know how he intends to fabricate the clear lens covers. So, I doubt that, I will even attempt it.

 

That sounds like something where I would use vacuforming. 

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Yeah, that sounds like the best way to make clear headlight covers but, it's not something that I'm comfortable with. I've already decided that, I'm not going to build an LM version so, it's off the table. I didn't get too much done today but, like I mentioned earlier, I need to get the radiator assembled just so I can put the front frame brackets to rest and move on to completing the front suspension and then move to the rear suspension. Anyway, to that end, I did get all the PE cut out and all of the brackets soldered together. The last part will be to actually assemble the parts into the complete radiator itself. Here's the various pieces soldered and still needing some clean up.

 

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Just playing around with the side tanks to see how they fit in the frame compared to the new PE brackets. They are fairly close but, I can see where I'll have to make some adjustments and probably a little more paint.

 

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Edited by larchiefeng

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Radiator assembly begins

 

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I decided to use plastic to create a way to hold and center the inner mesh because the borders were so slim there really wasn't any way to glue or solder with any accuracy. First, attached the side borders.

 

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Then I added the inner mesh between the border frames

 

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Then I needed a bottom piece to keep the mesh from falling out.

 

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Last part, is to add the final piece to finish the sandwich.

 

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Because the inner radiator core is so slim I figured that I would build up the side tanks inside to appear more like a real radiator. I just used some plastic card to create the tanks and they also added the support I needed to hold the core in place. I originally was going to add more plastic in the sandwich but, the real thing does have a fairly thin core and there is a recess in the front of the radiator. This is also the way the instructions say to assemble the radiator. It kind of seems wrong but, I went with it.

 

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After building the tank I used alloy to cover the plastic so the whole assembly is all metal on the outside.

 

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The ends are on and waiting for the top and bottom plates

 

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Finally assembled waiting on the fans, hoses and other fittings but, first I need to get it mocked up inside the frame.

 

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Just sitting in place for a look see and, I can see that I'm going to have to do some more work on the frame and possibly re-position the front radiator mounting brackets on the frame.

 

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At least now, I can finish this up and get the rest of the front suspension installed and move on. So, tomorrow I will make the necessary adjustments and get the radiator mounted correctly. Making the radiator accomplished what I wanted it do by making sure everything will mount as it should.

 

IMG_6222_zpst6tcbuw2.jpg

 

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The radiator is a little thin, but when the sleeve that connects it to the body will be fitted, it wont be that visible :

 

F40-17-gross.jpg

 

Here's a pic from Ton's WIP, the front end of the radiator is just visible :

 

DSC_0184a.jpg

 

The radiator has almost the same thickness as its metal frame.

 

 

Edited by Pascal

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I've been away too long friend but you have well and truly bit off a big chunk here. Your soldering and problem-solving are now in the professional league. And your patience has gotten a big workout.

 

Head down and keep going; don't start a MFH or something to switch off. I think this requires all hands on deck. Hope you break my 3 year record.

 

Great job(s).

C

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Thanks guys, good to see you back Mr. C. I hope that you are feeling better. How is the Mercedes coming along Keith? Yeah, Pascal, I had a feeling that, it wasn't looking right but, it's done now. Like you said, it won't be seen too much where it's positioned when it's all assembled. My original intention was to build it as a full core but, I started looking at the kit radiator and it's pretty recessed and again, the instructions aren't very clear on this. Moving on, I got the radiator correctly mounted in the frame and the side brackets where they're supposed to be.

Here is where I was going to show you the pictures of today's progress but, Photo bucket just won't load, at all, tonight and after trying to get some pictures copied for 40 minutes, I've given up. Hopefully, tomorrow it will play nice again and I'll have some pictures.

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Photobucket is finally, sort of working so here's the pictures from the last post.

 

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I finally got the front shock parts and started the assembly when I found out the I had cut the springs 2mm too short so, I masked off the shock bodies and repainted them while I wait on a couple new springs. Here's the springs with the correct watch band pins for the cylinders and my baking pan to try and contain the flying small parts. 

 

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Yesterday, I decided to start on the rear frame modifications while I'm waiting on the new springs and the paint to set up and dry on the components. So, I dug out the assembled rear section and engine as it is assembled from the kit. It's also quite dirty and I thought seeing it this way and when it's done would be interesting. Here's a few different views to show what kind of shape it's in.

 

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Time to start taking it apart and get down to just the frame

 

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Down to what I'm going to be working on today. I'm going to be cutting off quite a few pieces and replacing them with brass PE and white metals pieces.

 

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This is slightly off topic but, it's in keeping with the body work and it's something that, I discovered when I was going through all the instructions and steps trying to decipher the parts abbreviations. This appeared in step 49 which is very late in the instructions and probably wouldn't be much of a problem if I wasn't doing a color change. However, I am and I need to take care of this step now. It's an additional white metal piece that needs to be added to the inside of the rocker panel duct. I also removed the casting number on the part at the end of the additional piece; that's what the grinding marks are. I'll need to clean this up and attach the part with epoxy. Sorry for the tangent.

 

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Well, this catches you up for the last two days now, I need to get back to the frame and take care of today's work and start cutting up the frame and assembling all the PE pieces required to modify the rear frame. More later, Photobucket willing!

 

 

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Great work to date. Like you my PB has been playing up but thanks to Ron, I have partial contact and will post a small update.

 

A thought about the springs; why not 2mm spacers (spring pads) - like the NASCAR guys use?? No waiting for parts that way...

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About bloody time too :)

Some nice work going on here my man....would love to get my hands on that engine ;)

 

Ron

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It's no big deal since, I already bought them and they were pretty cheap. Besides I really need to leave the calipers alone for a week or so and let the clear paint set up and thoroughly dry before I handle them again. I've already forgotten and put my grubby fingerprints on them once. 

Edited by larchiefeng

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It's amazing what a difference there is between the regular kit parts and the transkit modified ones. I am glad you got PB back running. 

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Yeah, you're right about the difference. You'll see it when you start taking the new parts out of the box but, when you take an already assembled model apart, you really see how toy like the quality is of the Pocher kit. Then, you start going through close to 3000 pieces in the transkit and it takes on a whole new meaning. 

I got a bit of a late start today but, I was able to start some of the frame surgery with a my hand saw and quickly realized that, I'm going to have to use the Dremel on some of the heavy plastic to get them out cleaner. As you can see by the first picture, there is quite a bit to be removed. I found the background picture showing what is to be removed on another forum with the F40 Autograph thread and it's a lot more helpful than the transkit picture. I believe that build was by a friend of Pascals and is very informative. So, here's the first picture.

 

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By comparison here is the actual instruction page for not only this part but, two other steps. You guys can see exactly what the problems are with the instructions.

 

Ferrari20F4020transkit20instruction20pag

 

The two main pieces just in a mock up position to verify what needs to be cut out and to make sure of the thicknesses on the remaining structure.

 

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As you can see, there's a lot of cutting left to do and a lot of brass to be soldered together with one small photo to go on.

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Wayne, great stuff. Love what you show us. It seems to be a real journey and I gather that the instructions are not really self explanatory.

Actually a bit weird if you create a transkit with so many parts and simply do not spend the time to set up documentation which will enable your customers to build the kit.

 

Anyway, a swell job sofar. Keep going...

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Wayne have you seen this ? Chris Harris puts the pedal to the metal in both the F40 and the F50. This clip has some nice closeups and some magnificent driving :

 

 

Edited by Pascal

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It's not that there's no information or documentation with the transkit, it's just somewhat vague given the parts count. He supplied the complete Ferrari F40 parts manual with the kit along with a few pictures. Most of that documentation is of the engine though. It's the re-engineering of the frame to use the PE and get rid of the toy like look on these components that really needed better explanations. Fortunately, there's about 3-4 other of these builds on other forums to draw some info from. Again, those guys concentrated mostly on the engine and just a little on the frame and suspension. This picture in the background with the red outlines around what needs to be removed is the best thing I found regarding what to do to prepare the frame for the PE. It's kind of what the transkit should have had. Since I was gone most of the day, I only managed to get most of the braces roughly cut out. I set the PE pieces next to what I have and I can see some areas that need to be massaged. I also, totally spaced out removing the small triangle piece outlined in the bottom right corner of the picture so, that needs to come off tomorrow with some other minor pieces. I'm probably spending a lot more time documenting this part of the build than normal but, I know that, Rich will be having to do this as well and if I document it and talk about what worked and didn't work then it will be easier for him when he gets here. 

 

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It's still a bit ragged but, I didn't want to cut too close with the Dremel saw. I can clean it up with sanding sticks and files.

 

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I have the Dremel set up out in the garage and most of the reference and PE in the downstairs work shop so, tomorrow I'll take it all out to the garage and get it all dialed in and start soldering the PE and get it glued to the frame skeleton. Hopefully, tomorrow night it will be looking somewhat brassy!

 

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Very cool video Pascal, thanks for sharing. I've kind of wanted to build a bit of a racer out of this car and I think that. I've hit on a narrative that will suit me. I'm going to build a gentleman's racer that, has enough safety equipment inside the cockpit but, without all of the body engine modifications that a LM car would have. This guy likes to take his F40 out on the weekends and race it at the track with his buddies. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

 

Edited by larchiefeng

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Wayne, just a thought. With all the material removal up front, is the chassis rigid enough to maintain alignment of the mounting points? Might a jig need to be fabbed to hold relationships; or truss rods like I used for my body alignment?

 

Same is true for the PE construction; a jig to align parts before soldering? Could be as simple as balsa sheets in box construction to the correct shapes. Also not affected by soldering heat...

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Actually, the frame is pretty rigid because it's fairly thick ABS but, I did screw the bottom center frame on while I was cutting and sanding the frame; you can see it circled in red in the first picture.

 

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This picture shows that I got everything removed that was outlined i the reference photo and it's pretty clean now. Between using the Dremel with a saw blade and a burr and then some pretty aggressive sanding sticks it took about 4 hours to get everything cleaned up. I could have cut closer in some spots but, it's easier to remove the plastic rather than trying to fix a screw up.

 

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Things are starting to fit better now but, I'm not done removing things as I found out when I started bending some of the brass and started trying to fit more pieces.

 

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I cut off all of the etch from the different frets so, I can see what all has to be made and try and piece the puzzle together. I have a pretty good idea on most of it but, there's still some pieces I'll need to get on the computer and try and find some reference pictures for locations and orientation of them.

 

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 Here is the very first section that I was adding the brass to and it had to be cut down so the plate would fit. This was after I cut it off.

 

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This is the other side before cutting it off.

 

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Cleaned up and both pieces in place.

 

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With both main pieces and the two front pieces in place and now, the white metal braces with the upper control arm brackets mounted on them for fit. Everything will just be mocked up until, I can make sure of where everything goes and, if I have to cut more frame sections out, I won't ruin any of the brackets handling the frame . I have a feeling that I'm not done cutting yet.

 

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Hopefully, I will have everything sorted out tomorrow and permanently soldered together and mounted.

 

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Really impressive work Wayne.  That is a lot of plastic to hack off. Is it still pretty rigid with those struts gone?  I see you are using the bolts for the control arm brackets in the back.  That's a great idea. Hopefully the suspension geometry in the rear is more accurate and requires a lot less fiddling for you than the front. 

 

 

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