Jump to content

Pocher F40 with Autograph transkit upgrade challenge build


Recommended Posts

I really hope you continue with weathering mate...as with 'details'...seen or not...it's all part of the journey to reality.

Personally...I have always found the 'Dremel' better for dealing with solder overruns...as the heat the bit generates kinda helps in smoothing it down.

Very much enjoying the ride...and wouldn't I love to be doing that engine lol.

 

Respect

 

Ron

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Wayne,

 

Very nice work !

 

Dont worry about the solder on the muffler. The 1/1 scale F40 mufflers have some weld seams that are quite visible. Will post some pics later today.

 

Sincerely

 

Pascal

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Wayne, here are some pics.

 

The muffler :

 

68e333417c6f5a2c0d92d5f2a5b13076.jpg

 

fa4688a31031275c74387086f83de738.jpg

 

Turbo's :

 

57119a1def31545bf0e3817bb4fdd8c6.jpg

 

f0d6557fb1f32851267fad8242c3064f.jpg

 

The Pocher F40 is a "non cat , non adjust" F40, meaning that it has none of both.

 

Here's a pic of a cat F40 :

 

26e667105938c405c7e8eb04cb2f43f7.jpg

 

Sincerely

Pascal

Edited by Pascal
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Pascal, I also downloaded a few pictures of the muffler but, more to get a better idea of the color of the muffler after it has been run for some time. To Ron’s point, I am trying to weather the engine parts and I wanted to get a better more realistic look on it. 

As I mentioned a while back, I’m ahead of what I’m posting and the muffler is already painted but, I’m not sure that I’m completely happy with it. I have a couple ideas for changes so, we’ll see. When I post those pictures I will also post my reference pictures too so, you guys know what I was going for. I really wish that I could do a few screenshots of the dvd I have. The F40 LM in the dvd is really much more weathered than some of the pictures off the internet. You are looking at a wrecked F40LM and being a race car it better represents the engine as I envision it. I think that there’s some YouTube video of the same car and if I can, I’ll post a link to it with the times in the video that show what I’m looking at.

 I’m not sure if I mentioned it or not but, I received the parts from Uli yesterday so, I can get back to the engine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks guys I appreciate the encouragement. I looked at the Vallejo color and it is very close to what I used. I used Alclad pale burnt metal to start as a base and then put Alclad exhaust manifold over the top of it. I was trying to get it darker on the ends where the heat shield didn’t cover it and slightly lighter on the heat shield itself. 

I’ll post those pictures later today with my reference and then you guys will have a better idea of where I’m at. It’s not bad but it just seems like it could probably be better. I really should have Ron living nearby so he could add his magic touch to it, lol 😂 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, larchiefeng said:

. I really should have Ron living nearby so he could add his magic touch to it, lol 😂 

Well, why not? There's  only one continent, an ocean and a few dollars standing in the way? :devil:

Ron is an active and acknowledged expert in the figure painting world as well as an artist in several mediums. His work would lift your project into a class of one. A dimension of realism very few could achieve.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, here are some pictures of the real F-40 LM that was crashed to show what a real raced F-40 looks like. Not all F-40's are showroom clean and pristine and this is where my inspiration comes from.

 

As you can see it's pretty dirty and well used, not a lot of shiny aluminum bits here.

spacer.png

spacer.png

spacer.png

spacer.png

 

Compare the real one to what I'm trying to do

spacer.png

 

Back to the muffler now. Pascal posted a picture of one and I found three more; one of which looks similar but, the one I really tried to copy was on a TV show called Fast and Loud. It showed the muffler off the that crashed F-40 on the floor of the garage and it really looked the most like the look I tried to emulate. Here are the various mufflers.

 

Not quite the color of the other one.

spacer.png

 

Close but, still not quite it

spacer.png

 

Almost but, not dark enough

spacer.png

 

So, here is my attempt. Started with a silver base coat and I put the PE gaskets and brass rings on here.

spacer.png

 

Unintentional scratches and, I discovered later that I couldn't get the 1mm nuts and bolts on through the holes with them still attached to the muffler so, off they came. That's another story for next time.

spacer.png

 

Here is the muffler with the silver over sprayed with Alclad pale burnt metal followed with Alclad exhaust manifold on the ends and pipes

spacer.png

spacer.png

spacer.png

spacer.png

 

It still seemed a little too clean looking so, I decided to grime it up some more

spacer.png

 

Now it's starting to look like something that's been raced and slightly used and abused like our real F-40

spacer.png

 

That's where it is now and I'm OK with it I think. It does seem to be following the theme of the engine. I also found a couple pictures of the exhaust system and a turbo as well here. This is off of the LM and you can see the burnt chrome exhaust pipe off the turbo and the various discolorations along the pipes from the header to the end.

spacer.png

 

The exhaust side of the turbo gets pretty dark from the heat but, the other side stays relatively silver in color. Again, on half of the turbo will be pretty dark and the other side will be aluminum in color but, looking more like the rest of the engine.

spacer.png

 

I've chosen to build and weather my F-40 more in keeping with a car that gets used and enjoyed on the track. And, doing my research and reading every F-40 with the transkit build, they are all red and super clean. I just wanted something different and, I realize that, it's not going to be everyone's cup of tea but, it will be the only one like it! 😎

 

 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If i may offer some insight into replicating weathered metals...especially castings that are subjected to high temps...although this will include extrusions...such as exhaust pipes etc. ...the first thing to note is the surface texture...which...although relatively smooth when new...will take on a 'granular' texture with age...take your last picture of the turbo as a prime example...as well as the pic of the turbo together with the exhaust...and include in this your pic of the 'muffler itself...cars are more prone to this than bikes...hence I applied less of this effect to my Ducati.

There are many ways to replicate this effect...and I would be happy to offer suggestions should you wish me to.

I like where your aiming for with this mate...keep it coming.

 

Ron

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Ron, I’m always open for suggestions, tips and tutorials; I’m not sure that I will be able to execute them on your level. However, the knowledge of how to achieve the desired effects are valuable to know. Since I have just received the missing turbo fittings I’m right at that point where getting the ‘granular’ texture on the exhaust side of the turbo is where I’m at. Both sides of the turbo have the cast texture but the exhaust side is more pronounced. I probably would have just painted it either Alclad exhaust manifold or jet exhaust in color and moved on. Or, I have, in the past used the spray fabric texture paint for interiors to get the textured look and then paint the color over it. Actually that’s what I did with the valve covers before painting them red. 
I’m interested in hearing your thoughts and suggestions, thanks!
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/26/2019 at 1:47 PM, larchiefeng said:

Well, that’s my story and I’m sticking to it! 🥴

And you should. Most important is that you are happy with the result.

In the mean time you are making great progress. Thanks for keeping us updated in such detail.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks guys! :phew: I hope that, I can keep up. Anyway, I'm going off the deep end with the exhaust system and I hope that, it works. I have what, I think will work but, I just ordered some more supplies in case I screw this up, Even if I don't, I can use what I'm doing as the mock up or pattern. I hope to have something a little more visual to post later today. I was able to get an early start to weekend's modeling so, hopefully I can make some good progress. More later

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Even though I'm no where near done with the turbos, I decided to start working on the pipes. The type of work to be done is that you have to cut them apart and prep the flange gaskets. First thing is to cut off the molded on flanges and replace them with the PE and brass washers and 1mm bolts and nuts.

 

Here are the turbo pipes

 spacer.png

spacer.png

 

Here's where I made my first mistake with these pipes and flanges. I went ahead and put the muffler side of the PE flanges on the short muffler pipes and glued the brass rings on before I painted the muffler. That, wasn't the problem, I'll get to that in a minute but, here is the waste gate pipe that is going to need surgery and the same treatment as the turbo pipes. Muffler painted and weathered with the aforementioned flanges

spacer.png

 

Some obligatory weathered muffler pictures

spacer.png

spacer.png

 

With the assembled and painted turbo pipes, well sort of

spacer.png

spacer.png

 

Here is where the problem begins and I had to remove the PE flanges and rings from the muffler side. Can you guess the problem?

spacer.png

 

In a nutshell here is the problem. There is hardly any room to start the the bolts and nuts in the proper orientation and even if I could have gotten bolts in, I had no way to tighten them. So, the only way to do it was to put the bolts on with the nuts facing the engine. 

spacer.png

 

The only way to deal with it and get things correct was to remove the flanges and start all the nuts and bolts like this. You still have enough room to slide the brass ring inside the flanges and attach the other pipe and after the nuts are tight and the ring is glued onto the other pipe. It's the glue that's going to hold it all together not the flanges. but if the ring is glued to both pipes there is enough of a shoulder to keep the flange on either side of the ring. This one is for you Brad and Rich; you have to do this with all of the pipe flanges unless you have a better method of working with 1mm nuts and bolts in tight spaces!

spacer.png

spacer.png

 

A better idea of just how small these nuts and bolts really are

spacer.png

 

I also just found this out tonight when I was working on the getting the turbos attached to the headers. I again, made the mistake of attaching the square turbo flange to the end of the header before I realized that I should have put all the nuts and bolts together. The other little tip I have is that the S1 bolts are a little too short to mate up the turbo, MB8 brass ring and header. I had to go into my spare hardware box and use 1mm x 8mm long brass bolts from MMC to get the length. The other reason I had to take it apart was to use the PE as a template to drill the 4 holes in the square flange on the turbo for the bolts to go through. Two steps forward, one step back! :oops:

spacer.png

 

Obviously, you can probably tell that, I'm really a couple steps ahead of these pictures and, that's probably a good thing. It gives me time to think about how I can fix a problem and then move forward without stalling the thread. Hopefully, I can make enough progress tomorrow so, I can make another post tomorrow. At some point, you will understand my earlier post from today regarding the exhaust system. The next couple of posts are going to be getting the turbo and waste gate pipes mounted and set up before I do the plumbing with the braided lines. I'm kind of saving the more delicate work for later on.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Wayne,

 

If you need to install small bolts and nuts in tight spaces, there's a way to "fake it". Don't use a bolt and a nut, but use a piece of threaded rod and 2 nuts. Use tweezers to hold the first nut in place (at the back of the flange), screw the threaded rod into the nut, put on the other flange and screw on the second nut.

 

Sincerely

 

Pascal

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

alternative: do not use rods at all. Glue a short screw on backwards to imitate a nut and a bolt on one side. On the other side use simply a nut with the hole filled or a piece of hex extrusion to imitate the screw head.

It is not a functional model, just a look alike. 😉

 

Again thank you for pointing out your mistakes and problems. I am taking notes along the way.

 

Jan

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks guys for all the great tips! I’m going to jump ahead here and give you a preview of what happened and how I solved the problem. The PE that goes on the exhaust manifold and mates with the turbo via the nuts and bolts with the brass ring sandwiched in between had a couple of issues. When I was drilling the holes using the PE as a template I still had a blowout on one of the corners of the turbo. I didn’t like that the holes were so close to the edges and I thought that if the square of the turbo was slightly bigger it would be better and not really noticeable when painted and I can always sand it down if it looks off. 
So, I just cut the ends off of the turbos and made new square pieces for each one. This made it easier to drill the holes straight and keep enough material around the edges. Then, I added the center bolt that lines it up on the header and another one to line it up back on the turbo. The the brass ring gave enough space for the bolts heads and there’s the mechanical connection. With the PE piece on I primed it all. I finished the assembly of the nuts and bolts and then cleaned up the edges to size. Once the square sandwich was done I finished the color coat and then glued it back on between the turbo and header. I solved two different problems doing it this way. It gives holes with enough material around them and the ease and cleaner assembly of these parts. Sometimes the only way to save the patient is surgery! 🤔

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I was doing all the surgery on the turbo pipes and adding the flange gaskets, I thought that I was ready to start working on the waste gate. So, I decided to cut it apart before I realized that, I was no where near done with the turbos.

 

Here's the Pocher kit waste gate and pipes molded together as one unit. So simple. :think:

spacer.png

 

Slicing and dicing! Now, I just need to remember which way they all go.

spacer.pngspacer.png

 

In the meantime all the eye bolts showed up. Quite a variety of sizes. The nickle one is the one that Pascal showed from Knufper.

spacer.png

 

A little ruler action so you guys can see how big each one is

spacer.png

 

Pay no attention to the white plastic or the brass tubing, I'm just trying to get an idea of what to do and how else they might be used.

spacer.png

spacer.png

spacer.png

 

When I was asking about Aeroquip fittings larger than the 1mm size that came with the kit this, is what Pascal suggested. Use a piece of hex rod and turn it down to look like one. I got as far as finding the hex rod in my supplies. :shrug:

spacer.png

 

Also, here are the parts that I was waiting for from Uli

spacer.png

 

I started working on making some hoses for all these fittings and trying to figure out the best way to use all these little pieces to get hoses that looked sort of real. Here are some of my first attempts

spacer.png

 

The hose part was going together pretty well but, I needed to figure out how to get the eye bolts in and the collar on

spacer.png

 

Cut down the eye bolt with the collar on and try and stuff the eye bolt inside

spacer.png

 

Not working too well and a little sloppy

spacer.png

 

New plan; solder the cut down eye bolt onto some copper wire

spacer.png

 

First attempt, pretty sloppy soldering work but, it was good enough to test the theory

spacer.png.

spacer.png

 

It came out nice and clean and I was pretty happy with myself, for a minute :wow:

spacer.png

spacer.png

 

Yep, everything was looking just peachy until, a close fiend of mine pointed out an inaccuracy with the collars on the end of the hose at the eye bolt. It came up when we were also discussing the turbo fittings and he had some other observations there as well. All that will be covered in my next post but, I won't leave you hanging on the problem with the collars; they are backwards :wtf: On real hoses, the crimped end forms the bulge at the eye not down on the hose. I also ran into more problems that, I think I mentioned, over the weekend and, they have all been resolved along with the hoses. Sometimes it's easier to go back and do it again correctly and even though it's PIA, it usually comes out much better than what you thought was pretty good to begin with. 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

More fine work mate...even getting things wrong can be right...so to speak.

 

If I may...and you may already have this in mind...please don't forget to weather in the hoses and fittings...in keeping with the rest of the engine...I usually use a thinned very dark brown acrylic mixed with matt varnish...and simply wash it over the hose and fitting.

Your ref pics above of the crashed F40 will give you a good idea of what you are aiming for.

 

Also came across these.....https://www.bestbalsakits.com/tamiya/search.asp?searchFor=hex+fitting&Submit=search+the+site

 

Ron

Edited by silver911
added text
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...