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larchiefeng

Pocher F40 with Autograph transkit upgrade challenge build

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Here's where I left off with the rear frame some months ago with the PE just mocked up on the rear frame. I had already made a number of cuts and removed quite a few molded on plastic cross members in preparation to add the PE. It's been sitting on the bench staring at me for months and it's time to get on with it. 

 

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The PE has been removed to continue work on the frame and remove the additional sections that, I realized that still needed to be removed.

 

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Ready for battle with reference, my list and the parts.

 

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Here's the areas that need to be removed. The top circle is an area that needs to cleaned up for the brass PE piece to sit down level. The small circle in the corner shows that, even after cutting out the section before, I still need to clean it up and square up the corners.

 

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Before cutting

 

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After cutting and again, the small circle shows more clean up required after making this cut. You can only get so close when cutting out these sections and the plastic very thick and heavy. I think that, it's actually ABS and has kind of a nylon texture, definitely not polystyrene plastic.

 

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Everywhere I look there's more clean up to be done from the first frame section removal.

 

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These Xacto knife blades are really handy for getting into all the angles and removing the excess. As you can see, I have a lot of cleaning up to do before I move on with any PE work. I want all the frame sections to be smooth and square before the PE gets glued on.

 

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Almost cleaned up. I still need to turn it every which way and make sure every side of every brace is clean. I know that there's still a few small spots that need to be finished up but, I'm close.

 

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Tomorrow, I should be able to start fitting the brass that's already done and more that's in the pan. 

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Very meticulous work there Wayne!  It really is a lot of material to remove but the final product will be worth it.  I didn't appreciate how extensive the modifications are to the frame.  

 

I like your reference bible.  With a build this complex you need lots of pics to figure out where all the PE/struts go.  Unfortunately there is no Paul Koo DVD to guide builders.   You have to create your own

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Thanks Rich. Yeah, there's a lot going on the frame and with the whole transkit in general. You really have to be thinking about what else has to be done when you are doing something. Because the instructions tend to jump around some, you almost have to review every page as you are doing one to see if there's something else that needs modification five or ten steps later. And does that, needs to be thought about or done now. It's not exactly a Tamiya kit. My biggest problem is, I can't sit down and work on it every day and I have to go back over things each time I sit down to make sure I'm not missing something that's why I keep a note pad next to the reference material. 

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I'm having the same issue with the Tommaso Iuele transkit.  There is no instruction book that gives the step sequences!  You just have to look at the pics, scratch build some things, and assemble as much as you can on the engine block before installing into the frame.  There are also a lot of transkit pieces for the frame itself- oil coolers, pipes, clamps, hoses, fans, etc. that must be installed first before the engine can be mated.  It seems that I am rather left to my own devices- which I have to say that I'm enjoying!  Keep at it, this is a brilliant deconstruct/reconstruct project for you and I can't wait to see all of those transkit parts on that F40!!

 

Darin

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Thanks Darin, you're definitely right about being left to your own devices. I make a lot of notes and try and write down my own sequence of operation based on what I've read in the instructions and reference materials from other builds that have been documented on other websites and forums. My own observations from looking at everything give me what I feel is a logical progression to build and I write it into my notes. Of course things change frequently but, I at least feel like I have a good plan each time I sit down to work on it.

At the moment, I'm done cleaning up the frame and I can move forward with attaching the various pieces of PE. Tonight I discovered that two small braces didn't line up with the main white metal cross brace holes. So, I'm going to have to make some corrections on their locations before I glue the two largest PE pieces to the shock towers. I'm thinking that if I bolt the WM part to the top of each piece then I can unsolder the two lower brackets and then bolt the other end of the WM piece to them and then just solder them back on and the location will be exactly where they should be. Just an example of figuring things out as you go along. Hopefully, I will have some decent progress pictures tomorrow or the next day.

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Excellent progress Wayne.  That frame could be glass-filled nylon....do you see little swirls in the matte finish?   If so, they add that glass for stiffness, as that is a pretty heavy model.  Glass filled nylon is also a beast on Exacto blades- tough stuff to cut!

 

Keep at it- I'm like you, a little bit here and there.  It should be an adventure, considering how much we paid for it! :)

 

D.

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It wouldn't surprise me if it was glass filled nylon. It does have a feeling of nylon plastic about it. Tonight, I took a couple of steps back on getting the brackets on the frame. My screw up totally; when I tried to connect the white metal cross brace and then re-position the two lower braces I wound up melting the white metal lower rods when I tried to solder the brass back on the "A" frame. 

The rear frame is finished and ready for the PE

 

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Started with getting the rear cross member attached to re-position the lower brackets. You can see that with the lower brackets mounted in what is supposed to be the correct locations they don't line up. Red circle on the right shows how much lower the arm extends than the left one circled in green/

 

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Here I've attached the upper section and you can see the ends circled in red that melted off; total brain fart!

 

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A close up of the melted end still bolted in the bracket, oops! This bracket was moved down and reattached but, melted the end off.

 

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I have some thoughts on how to fix this and I will see which one will work the best. I'm going to remove a few of the brass brackets and clean up the solder and then try and solder them back on more cleanly. I'm going to have to use brass rod in place of the lower white metal rods so, I guess I'll just have scratch build new rods. I expect that in the long run they will probably fit better. At this point it's just better to remove everything and start over. One other thing that, I discovered when using the bolts to attach things to the WM and brass is that, the holes in all these parts are too small for the bolts. I had to drill out all the parts for the bolts to fit. This would have been good to know before bending and soldering them. So, the tip here is if there are any brass PE parts that will require bolts to go through them, be sure and drill out the holes prior to even cutting them off the PE sheet; you'll save a lot of time and aggravation. 

 

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Striling work and the patience of a saint.

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I made some progress today and actually attached the PE to the frame today. I still have to make the rods for all of the cross braces out of brass tubing and bolt them into the brackets. However, all of the brackets are attached with the exception of the lower control arm brackets. After the tubing is done then it will be time for some primer.

 

These brackets could be glued down but, because they will get the rods, I left them slightly loose on the nuts and bolts to be able to turn them as needed when fitting the rods. All these frame sections are angled and don't really line up straight ahead.

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The "A" sections glued in place.

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Motor mounts and rear sections covered with brass.

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Angle brackets with holes added and at the bottom of the "A" frame there is a stainless steel piece that goes on the outside of the frame with holes to drill and mount the lower control arm brackets.

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Pretty much all of the PE attached to the frame. There are bolts and more finish PE plates that will go on after the frame is painted black.

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I still need to repair the WM main cross member which, I'll do when I make all the other brass rods. Once all the rods go in and it gets some paint the rear suspension starts getting built.

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I spent a little time today making the rods for the cross braces and later I'll probably cut the brass for the replacements for the WM in the main upper rear brace. To start with here is a picture from yesterday that shows the rear L braces from a more head on view. I think that these brackets hold the air filter boxes on the engine. I just put some pins in to hold them while I checked the alignment. I need to look at reference picture to see how much they need to be moved to be straight or not.

 

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Here's today's scratch building of the rods. Here is the brass tubing cut prior to some file work and soldering.

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Laid out for measurement and to check round file work on the tubing ends.

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Soldering the ends on

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One done to check the length

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Center rod checking length and where to drill the holes circled in red. This rod doesn't get the ends like the cross braces.

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Rods are soldered and mocked up in place to check length and fit. Some filing and sanding to be done to clean up the excess solder and I will have to drill the bracket holes some for the bolts. It seems that, almost every PE bracket that will take a bolt needs to be drilled out for the bolt to go through. These were already made before I discovered the problem.

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Thanks, I found a new use for them when soldering the rods. I've been using a variety of different tools to help hold the PE and brass in place when soldering. It's the biggest challenge when soldering, just holding the parts in place you really need 3 or 4 hands!

It's actually funny that you mention the soldering; I woke up this morning realizing that, I forgot to rinse the parts in water after soldering them. The liquid flux is corrosive and will continue to eat into the metal if it's not rinsed off afterwards. I guess I know what I'll be doing this morning.

After posting last night, I finished replacing the white metal rods off of the big upper cross member which came out pretty nice. I used aluminum tubes instead of brass as they were softer and easier to get into the drilled holes. Because the aluminum and white metal look similar it almost looks like I didn't do anything. I will post the pictures of this later along with today's work. More :hourglass:later 

 

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Very meticulous and painstaking work, if only i had that much patience and determination. Re the soldering if it were me doing it you wouldnt be able to see the part for the solder 

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Thanks KP, here's the pictures of the white metal cross member with the aluminum tubes in place. Not perfect but, close; you can see that, I made a template from the old piece with the WM rods still in so I could get the angles close.

 

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Here it is right side up with the it in place and the bottom of the tubes fit inside the brackets.

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With the lower brass brace in place and fitting inside the brackets. Both are waiting on holes to be drilled for the bolts to secure the bottom of the aluminum and brass rods.

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There's another piece of brass PE that goes up and partially covers the upper "V" of the WM and aluminum tubes that looks like a truss. I will be adding that and doing more work on the frame tomorrow. I didn't have a lot of time today and hopefully tomorrow will be more productive.

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Question... I do not see where in instructions to remove the crossmember supports at the rear lower portion of rear end. Are you going to scratchbuild something to replace them? Or is this part of the LM transkit?

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Thanks Ron!

Big, there's a lot of different ways to add pictures to a thread and it seems that everyone has their own preferred method after the whole Photobucket debacle. I decided that, I didn't want to rely on a third party vendor and I started my own blog and I link my pictures from it to the thread. Some guys use Flickr, Post Image and a few others. The main thing is that, it has to be a link from a website or a photo hosting service. If any of you guys have an answer for Big here, please chime in and point him in the direction that you use. 

To answer your question regarding the instructions and not showing or saying anything about removing the last part of the frame. I have a lot of reference pictures from at least four other F-40 with Autograph transkit conversions and two have removed the same pieces that I did. One did not and one took out the very rear section but, left the brace under the straight section. I also used the Ferrari F-40 spare parts catalog reference that comes with the transkit. On page TAV.0102 it shows the complete rear frame section and it is exactly as I have modified it. My intention was to try and make it as close to the real thing as possible thus the removal of the those sections. Of course, the real thing doesn't have the round pieces on the frame but, those had to stay in order to attach the rear lower panel.

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Good to see you back into action and with a vengeance it seems. 

Great work and am following this complicated build with great interest. 

 

best, Sam

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Thanks Sam,

I do seem to be on a roll lately. The weather has been so cold that, it's been fairly conducive to just sit down at the bench and work through the jungle gym frame on this thing. I admit that, I hit a point where I was having trouble getting certain PE parts that needed to be soldered held correctly and I let it sit. After I got the paint work done I figured that I'd better figure it out and move on. It was a little tricky but, I got it done and things just kept on going from there. Sometimes all it takes is one small victory to get you going again. 

I managed to get all the holes drilled out and the rods as well today. I'm going to have to go back and remove one of the rear forward side braces and shorten it about 2-3mm. When I was installing the bolts it was kind of torquing the frame a little. So, I'l just have to clamp the small end in the alligator clips and heat it up and remove the rod, shorten it and solder it back on. It really shouldn't take very long but, I have some other things to do tonight and it will have to wait until tomorrow. Anyway, here's what I got done this afternoon.

Holes drilled through bracket at the end of the aluminum tubes for bolts and nuts.

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Back side, you can see the threaded part of the bolt sticking out.

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Side brace that needs to come off and be shortened.

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The PE truss part that I mentioned yesterday that goes over the "V" in the WM cross member. It's glued on, I learned my lesson with heat and WM!:rage:

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The lower brass rod is now drilled and bolted on below the aluminum tubes. I'm going to have to trim most of the bolts a little shorter.

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With the rear section mostly done except the control arms, rotors, brakes and spindles, I thought that I would mate the front and rear together and see it it all looks with the modifications being made. I'm pretty happy with the results so far.

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47 minutes ago, larchiefeng said:

I do seem to be on a roll lately.

My remark would feature the introductory words 'You're on a roll!' so let's say I agree with your assessment :)

 

It's amazing how complex these structures are on the F40. I'd lie if I said this was my favourite car in looks or otherwise (think I told you before) but this topic is a must-follow for me regardless of that because of everything there is to be learned in it.

 

I especially like the way you've been describing your own flaws / errors in execution, a gesture I consider to be something of a breeze in the world that is scale modelling where it sometimes seems like only modelling gods roam in peaceful coexistence with the fans of those modelling gods who deem themselves not worthy, thinking the gods never err and do everything right at first attempt. Miraculously, modelling magazines almost exclusively inform us of such success stories. I wonder if they are ever true. You're kind enough to show us, on the other hand, that fabulous results are to be achieved even after some trials and errors, minor as they may be. This is also one of the things I liked in Codger's (much missed) build progress description. He simply explained everything that happened... sometimes setbackish, often triumphant. 

 

Looking at the Ferrari F40's frame I consider myself very fortunate that my own project is so simple of shape and construction: just a frame, body bolted to it, engine mounted onto it, suspension, wheels and parking sensors, that's it... very basic. I hope, in your case, that one will eventually be able to see the major part of all those frames, beams, supports, struts et cetera that you're building. I personally don't believe in the adage 'at least you know it's there', although I respect those who do live by that comfort, but I DO believe in the power of amazement in case a curious jury member shines his flashlight toward the space beneath the engine, barely visible... to visually uncover a series of meticulously crafted construction subassemblies. That proves presence of commitment and if shown to those who are sensitive to it (such as but not limited to us folks, followers of your topic) it constitutes what modelling is all about: awe-inspiring sensations and inspiration for others to try doing something similar. 

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Thanks for the support and your kind words Roy. The F-40 is a car that I have always liked but, without the transkit I doubt that I would have spent the time on it. I've been thinking about building one engine completely detailed for display out of the car and another one partially assembled for inside the engine bay. The one inside could be detailed but not as complete which, would show some of the other details on the frame and suspension. Anyway, it's a thought I've been kinda kicking around. By the time I get to that part I might have a whole different idea. 

I've always enjoyed the thinking behind the process that the builder used and why and how something was done. Like you said, when you read an article in a model magazine it's fine as far as it goes but, you know that it probably didn't just put itself together without some problems here and there. I'm a long way from perfect and I make a lot of mistakes. I always learn something from every mistake I make and it's how you can recover from a mistake that makes you a better modeler. You can't be afraid to make mistakes even on expensive models. It's just plastic and paint and it can be fixed. The most important items on my bench is all different sizes and shapes of plastic and metal rods, tubes and sheets. A variety of glues and some Bondo go a long way towards fixing those mistakes. Case in point was the use of the 1/8" aluminum tube to repair/replace the melted white metal. 

I also enjoy reading threads like yours to get ideas on fabrication of parts too. There's inspiration everywhere on all types of build subjects so, sometimes you have to move out of your comfort zone to discover new techniques and skills.

Looking forward to seeing the results of your trip to the museum and your Delage build.

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So today was spent reviewing every step that, I either completed or almost completed to make sure that, I haven't missed anything or didn't screw up. I was looking at the rear frame steps and something didn't look right and then I started looking at the Ferrari parts manual and then at my reference from other builds and discovered a mistake on mine and the other guys' builds. Here's a couple of pictures from the reference from two different builds and what I was basing my build on for the rear frame. It came from the internet and was better than what the instructions showed so, I went with it.

 

You will notice that both guys have the brass rod going across the middle of the frame under where the WM cross member is located and I did the same thing. But, as I was reviewing, I noticed that this rod is not there and, then it dawned on me that, it couldn't go there because it would interfere with the engine.

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That brass is supposed to go between the red circles and another rod is supposed to go from the green circle back and connect to the rear lower panel. What got me thinking was where the green circle is the instructions are calling for a 1.5mm hole to be drilled. I started looking and finally found what it is for, many pages and steps ahead in the instructions. The rod that is supposed to go between the red circles doesn't show up on the instructions but, it's there in the parts diagram of the frame. Another interesting little tidbit is the holes that are drilled in the frame, under the body section, in the upper right hand picture. I also found those in the parts diagram but not in the instructions and only when, I looked real closely today did I see them on his build, Apparently, he saw them too and drilled them out. So, I will be removing the rod and drilling the holes in the frame later. 

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This is just an example of some of the things that, I found while reviewing things today. I have a few small details I need to attend to before I move forward. I expected the rear control arms and shocks to follow immediately after this part but, again it's way down the road. It looks like the engine is really the next big thing to tackle here. While I'm waiting on the rest of the metal engine parts to arrive, I'm going to wrap up the little stuff I've identified and I will go ahead and do the control arms modifications and build the shocks for installation later. Once the corrections are made on the frame I'll paint it and set it aside and start working on the engine. So, that is the plan of attack now that, I spent the day organizing my thoughts and writing everything down. Today was a research day, tomorrow will be a day for actual work on the car.

 

 

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I made a few of the corrections today. I removed the side rods and shortened them and resoldered them back together. I painted the bolt heads on the front suspension yellow like the factory marks when they are torqued down and finished. I started making the short cross members that, I had removed during all the cutting  up of the frame. The frame members are marked for the holes to be drilled tomorrow. Just going through my list and taking care of small things here and there. I also received the missing pieces for the metal engine that I bought from Thunder Valley a few months ago. This was unexpected because I bought the engine as is. Paul reached out to me a week ago and asked if I wanted any missing pieces; of course I said yes. He was going to have them made as part of another order he was putting together but, after I sent him the list of missing pieces, he contacted me and said that hr found everything except the valve covers. So, now, I have all the main pieces to build a high quality metal F-40 engine.

 

Front suspension before painting the bolts.

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After

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Corrected rods now mounted in the correct position in the upper holes of the brackets.

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Center rod has been removed from below the upper WM brace and mocked up in what is supposed to be the correct position according to the Ferrari manual.

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The two replacement frame sections in gray. They will need some more ework and holes drilled. The actual Ferrari frame back there is really "U" channel and not boxed but, there's no way to correct the black plastic.

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Still working through a bunch of small details and corrections etc. I found a couple of small brass plates and spent a half hour trying to figure out exactly where they go. I finally found the location from some reference material and then realized that, all the nuts and bolts on the rear main cross member needed to be turned around and face in the other direction. Lots of little stupid stuff like that. I was also looking at the end of the rear frame piece that is covered on three sides with brass and the instructions call for a hole to be drilled into the end of the plastic, I thought that the end needed to be squared off before the hole is drilled. So, I filled it with putty only to discover later that it's a "U" channel frame piece. Earlier I had added a thin piece of white plastic to the under side to clean up the whole thing. Anyway, long story short the end of that frame piece actually gets a rod on each end that connects to the inner side of the rear lower panel. Actually I think that, the inside of the frame piece is now solid it will be easier to make each side the same by drilling enough out to fit the brass rods inside.

 

I glued up the gray replacement frame pieces back on the frame here.

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Here is the frame section that I added the white plastic to the bottom; you can see that the inside is still somewhat hollow. The inside was looking pretty bad and this was before I discovered that a rod actually went inside the square opening.

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At this point, I thought that I'd better start mocking up some of the rear end parts and check for fit and clearances.

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You can see that I filled in the ends with green putty, oops! Nothing that a drill bit can't fix.

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I figured that as long as I was at it, I'd better check the frame with the main body on it. Everything is lining up nicely.

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So, while I was at it, I figured I'd better check it with the rear bonnet on.

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So far so good.

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Well fun time is over and I'd better put the body back where it won't get damaged and get back to just the frame. At least I know everything is where it's supposed to be for now.

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