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ok to clear coat decals with matt varnish?


lifeofbrian

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I'm building the Academy F-117 and the decals are horrid, very obvious backing. I know some models are finished in matt, but does it make a difference some how if you first coat with gloss?

Edited by lifeofbrian
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Trim the decal so they don't have such obvious backing?  This has sometimes been criticised following the argument that trimming closely to the painted markings will provide a step, whereas the varnish cover is feathered.   But you should be ok with a gloss varnish before applying the transfers, followed by a matt to finish.  The overall varnish will have the beneficial effect of giving the same overall finish to the aircraft and the markings, if that's what you want.

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Gloss coat before applying decals then finish with a matt satin or gloss coat as desired to give an even sheen across the model.

 

This wildcat was done with Humbrol gloss cote before decals then Humbrol matt cote afterwards to finish.

32894902381_68c1585e45_b.jpg

 

Hope this answers your question.

 

CT

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I think the question your asking is do I need to gloss before decals, I would say yes, as will quite a few others.

A gloss coat gives a nice smooth surface for the decals to adhere too, this lessens the chance of the decal silvering, seeing the decal film around the decals or a silver finish under them.

This silvering is air caught under the decal and a nice gloss finish helps prevent this.

You can then apply another gloss coat after you have finished the decals which will seal them in and allow you to then add details such as panel line washes and weathering.

Finally after you have done all this you can apply a matt finish,if that is required to blend it all together, as the picture above shows very well

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I coated the model in 3 coats of gloss before I applied the decals, but they are so silvery, and very dry too, they fall off very easy. I've used decal softener, but they are very bad.

 

10 minutes ago, colin said:

I think the question your asking is do I need to gloss before decals, I would say yes, as will quite a few others.

A gloss coat gives a nice smooth surface for the decals to adhere too, this lessens the chance of the decal silvering, seeing the decal film around the decals or a silver finish under them.

This silvering is air caught under the decal and a nice gloss finish helps prevent this.

You can then apply another gloss coat after you have finished the decals which will seal them in and allow you to then add details such as panel line washes and weathering.

Finally after you have done all this you can apply a matt finish,if that is required to blend it all together, as the picture above shows very well

 

 

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39 minutes ago, lifeofbrian said:

I coated the model in 3 coats of gloss before I applied the decals, but they are so silvery, and very dry too, they fall off very easy. I've used decal softener, but they are very bad.

 

 

 

Sorry I thought you were asking if 'it would' be better'.I belive Academy's decals are not very good.

When you say they slip off, is the decal softner your using having any effect on them at all ?

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That's what I use, If I don't use the red one straight away any touch and they can come away. I've tried giving a few coats to try and get rid of the silvering but no luck, I'll smother the thing in clear.

 

1 hour ago, Cheshiretaurus said:

What softener did you use? 

 

I use Micro Sol and Micro Set never had any trouble with them on any decals.

 

 

 

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21 hours ago, lifeofbrian said:

I'll smother the thing in clear.

 

 

 

 

 

That won't get rid of the silvering. You must fix the silvering before you clear coat it. Use a fine needle and gently pierce the silvered areas. Then apply Micro-sol. You can repeat this if necessary until the silvering is gone, then allow the decals to dry, then clear.

Edited by Steve Noble
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As noted above Academy decals can be horrid, even when new.  They can be thick, seem to have zero adhesive on them, and silver badly.  Frankly I throw them out and refuse to fight with them any longer.

 

What I've done to some success is to ensure a gloss surface before any decals go on.  I like to ensure the gloss coating is fully cured, allowing 2-3 days for it to fully cure.  That way none of my decal solutions react with the gloss coat nor paint.

 

Start with very hot water.  Just off a boil like for tea (ok, that's how I like my tea steeped anyway).  Trim the decal as close to the color/edges as possible.  Dip it into the water for no more than 30 seconds.  Let it sit on a paper towel for a couple of minutes.  Check it with a cotton bud and see if it slides about.  Put a drop (I use a paintbrush) of decal softener on the location where you want the decal.  Slide the decal into place.  Carefully squeeze any fluid out by rolling the cotton bud along the decal.  Ensure the decal doesn't move.  Once where you want it.  Put enough softener on the decal to coat it.  Ensure the decal is horizontal, propping the model in a place that is secure.  Walk away from the model.

 

Come back in about 4 hours, after the solution has dried and see how it looks.  If it's not doing anything, get out the stronger decal solutions.  I have the microscale solutions, DACO soft/medium/strong, and Solvaset.  I use them in that order.  For Adacemy decals I typically use DACO medium or strong, but usually not Solvaset.  Repeat the "coat with softener, come back in 4 hours" until the decal lays down properly.  

 

If you get bubbles, or silvering (you will) as noted above, take a sharp needle and lightly gentleman's parts the decal in the area of the bubble/silvering.  Coat with softener and walk away.

 

Unfortunately this can mean a week of decals on a model.  I follow this process for all my models, doing one of the 6 "surfaces" at a time:  Top, bottom, left, right, front, back.  Each takes me about 24 hours at most but usually about 4 hours; for good quality decals only 1-2 hours.

 

Good luck! 

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2 minutes ago, bentwaters81tfw said:

I tend to lay stubborn decals on wet Klear. It sticks them down and then overcoat with another layer when dry. Gloss or matt finish to choice.

I've heard of this method many times before, but I'm curious.

When I paint on Klear it dries so quickly I can't fathom out how you get the decal on fast enough!

please tell me your secret.

Rick.

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You need 3 hands. I have the decal wetted and ready to slide, but out of the water. I decant Klear into a glass screw top meat paste jar. With the model ready, I have the decal in tweezers in my left hand with my craft knife between my teeth, and a soft flat brush in my right hand (rt handed) The brush has been wetted in water. I then dip the brush in the Klear and coat the desired area, swap the brush for the knife, offer up the decal and slide into place with the tip of the craft knife. I can then use the wetted brush again for fine adjustment. The Klear is still dilute because of the water, so doesn't grab instantly. It's something I have only started doing recently, because I have had trouble with dodgy decals. I keep a sheet of kitchen towel for mopping excess water.

 

Give it a try on your mule. 

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Klear (Future) does make a great decal setting solution. I rarely recommend it as Klear or Future is not readily available to many Modelers, but if it is it can be a lifesaver. 

 

My method is to gloss the model as usual (I airbrush Future). After the gloss coat has fully cured, I dip the decal in hot water as I normally do, and when the decal is ready to slide off the paper I brush a small amount of Future as I would setting solution. I slide the decal on, position it, then wick away the excess. Then I use my damp cotton bud to roll any excess out and force the decal to settle down. All done quickly because if the Future dries it'll ruin the decal. 

 

Practice, as noted above, on a mule kit. 

 

Does not work on fragile decals. May not work on typical decals, but will work on stubborn or thick decals. 

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