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Stunning Tony. A Dyson powered vac-former, you don't do things by half.

 

 

Quite an ambitious vac-form project you have lined up there...

1070_31590688f29de71.jpg

 

 

 

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Definitely getting there

 

I have the pair of holders with just a few large drawing pins holding them together and holding the plastic sheet too

I've set a fixed stop position (all with gaffer tape holding it in place) at one end, used rubber door and window seal tape to minimise vacuum leaks and the sequence of operation I use is

 

Fix plastic into frames with pins

Start vacuum device/Henry

Hold frame into the stop location

Heat the frame/plastic whilst holding up

When the plastic has gone workable (you can really see when it reaches that state, it goes floppy then flat) drop the frame onto the suction base

 

Turn off the vacuum

 

You might find the plastic cools too soon! I've been known to reapply heat and vacuum to get more suck into it and allow more formating

 

Oh yes as Tomo points out, nice doors

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Comparing to Rodin, way, way to modest Tony, not sure that he could have knocked up a 119J!

 

Excellent results with the vacforming.

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Nice shapes Tony!

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Great proof of concept prototyping Tony, the production BT will without doubt be a magnificent example of the vac-formers art! 

 

Keithski

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8 hours ago, TheBaron said:

 

34683985690_9021e9f3e1_c.jpg

 

I can't remember if this has been mentioned or not - but you'll get a better (sharper) result by lifting your buck and supporting it a few mm above the holey plate.  That will allow the suck to get underneath and eliminate those soft rounded edges you're seeing as the plastic transitions from the vertical on the buck to the horizontal of the holey plate.

 

But you prolly knew that anyway and it didn't matter for the quick tests you were doing.  Also, it's worth experimenting with different thicknesses of plastic as that can have a large effect on the finished part.  If you're anything like me, you'll end up killing a plastic forest or two in the process.

 

 

 

 

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I must stop pondering this vac forming or it's going to get expensive for me, but before I do I thought I'd share Paul Budzik's video in case it helps:

 

 

Not that I want to spend my money, honestly, but they have a machine like this here for £121.99... it does about 20cm square moulding... just saying :) 

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You are getting this under control a lot quicker than I did when I started.

 

Martian

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That is working amazingly well. That shell looks ace.  Hendie's comment makes a lot of sense. I have seen the effect of "lifting" on some of my old "Sevans" Dr Who kits. Spectacular stuff chap, all in the name of modelling. :clap:

 

Jont

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Expensive?

 

Que?

 

How the heckythump can it be expensive?

 

I spent the sq ê of buggerall on mine

 

I should explain better Tony, my platen (let's pretend its a printing press for plastic huh this is the bit getting pressed in) always drops onto the window draught proofing rubber strips, that gives better pathways for the electrosuck to flow😇😇😇

Edited by perdu

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Where the heck have I been whilst 35 pages of plastic mayhem and observations on the vagaries of life unfold? I've not laughed so much, or used so many 'likes' in one thread.

 

The only advice I can possibly give you as the massed hoard of the Briterati illuminati are all on board cheering from the sides, is to ensure you reward yourself with some of the local black stuff as and when each milestone is passed.

 

I would pull myself up a chair but it's rather crowded, so I'll watch the live stream from the sanatorium next door.

 

Trevor the extremely late

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10 minutes ago, perdu said:

Expensive?

Que?

How the heckythump can it be expensive?

 

Expensive for me Bill mate :)

IMHO there are two types of people in this regard: 

a ) skilled makers of things who look in the shed to see what they have that can be assembled into a working example of the required device and

b ) Amazon Prime members.

Although these are not, of course, mutually exclusive groups I fall firmly into the second.

I like to think I'm good with my hands (snigger) but not in this way :D 

Homework for tonight is to extend the above cohorts to include c ) model makers and d ) kit bashers. Represent your findings in a Venn diagram.

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Venn diagram?

 

I should perhaps explain

 

Venn diagram, I wasn't in that day

 

😰

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14 hours ago, CedB said:

Not that I want to spend my money, honestly, but they have a machine like this here for £121.99... it does about 20cm square moulding... just saying

 

I've got one of them - had it for a couple of years and it works very well.  I'm  a Ced (b) category chap I guess - at least in spirit cos I've avoided Amazon Prime.......But I do feel less than a proper modeller......I still have the idea gained in boyhood that 'real, modellers fabricate such stuff for themselves - as exemplified by the Baronial and Perduish vac formers. :blush:

 

My first airbrush compressor was made by a mate of my Dad out of a fridge compressor.  Now he was a proper modeller. It didn't work as well as my later commercial ones (I secretly preferred to use cans of propellant) but that's beside the point.......

Edited by Fritag

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22 hours ago, Tomoshenko said:

 

Stunning Tony. A Dyson powered vac-former, you don't do things by half.

Cheers Tomo!

 

I is rather relieved that the rig worked tbh, what with everyone watching and all. 

 

22 hours ago, perdu said:

You might find the plastic cools too soon! I've been known to reapply heat and vacuum to get more suck into it and allow more formating

A summary worthy of the bulging cranium of the great Jeeves himself. Thanks Bill!

 

19 hours ago, 71chally said:

Comparing to Rodin, way, way to modest Tony, not sure that he could have knocked up a 119J!

Knowing a little of Rodin's private life I quail to imagine what he would have made of a beaver-tail...or a clamshell, come to think of it.....

 

19 hours ago, CedB said:

Nice shapes Tony!

Aw thanks Ced. I could still use losing a couple of pounds off round the waist though if I'm to be beach-fit.. .;)

 

16 hours ago, keefr22 said:

Great proof of concept prototyping Tony, the production BT will without doubt be a magnificent example of the vac-formers art! 

If I can do some more of those shell shapes I might be up for a range of Belgian chocolates!

 

Ooh , chocolate Spitfires too!:D

 

14 hours ago, hendie said:

 

I can't remember if this has been mentioned or not - but you'll get a better (sharper) result by lifting your buck and supporting it a few mm above the holey plate.  

 

 

Also, it's worth experimenting with different thicknesses of plastic as that can have a large effect on the finished part.  If you're anything like me, you'll end up killing a plastic forest or two in the process.

 

 

 

 

 

I'd completely forgotten the buck needed raising hen die. Invaluable and thanks!:thumbsup2:

 

I've some 1mm plastic on order for doing the actual BT moulding  but still want to play around with the varying thicknesses as you rightly suggest, on the basis that more information = more opportunity.

13 hours ago, CedB said:

I must stop pondering this vac forming or it's going to get expensive for me, but before I do I thought I'd share Paul Budzik's video in case it helps:

 

 

Mr. Budzik does make exceedingly good cakes...err..videos. He speaks with the same cadence I imagine Abraham Lincoln to have intoned  with.:D

 

 

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13 hours ago, Martian Hale said:

You are getting this under control a lot quicker than I did when I started.

Now I just have to work on the rest of my life Martian!

7 hours ago, The Spadgent said:

That is working amazingly well. That shell looks ace.  Hendie's comment makes a lot of sense. I have seen the effect of "lifting" on some of my old "Sevans" Dr Who kits. Spectacular stuff chap, all in the name of modelling. :clap:

Model or die!:evil_laugh:

'Lift and separate' Where have I come across that before? :hmmm:

6 hours ago, perdu said:

I spent the sq ê of buggerall on mine

A personage after my own cardiac region.

 

Rubber strips off the window eh? I must have a go at the double glazing with a chisel.

 

6 hours ago, Max Headroom said:

Where the heck have I been whilst 35 pages of plastic mayhem and observations on the vagaries of life unfold? I've not laughed so much, or used so many 'likes' in one thread.

 

The only advice I can possibly give you as the massed hoard of the Briterati illuminati are all on board cheering from the sides, is to ensure you reward yourself with some of the local black stuff as and when each milestone is passed.

 

I would pull myself up a chair but it's rather crowded, so I'll watch the live stream from the sanatorium next door.

 

Trevor the extremely late

Trevor you're very welcome, pull up a pew.:D

 

Don't worry - on page 35 we're only at the dawn of this build...

 

I regret having to mention that I'm not much enamoured of the black pint, however gin can be poured into me for a menu of effects....

 

6 hours ago, CedB said:

Homework for tonight is to extend the above cohorts to include c ) model makers and d ) kit bashers. Represent your findings in a Venn diagram.

 

 

5 hours ago, perdu said:

Venn diagram?

lyme_regis_stratigraphy6.jpg

Plastic modelling. The early years....

5 hours ago, perdu said:

 

 

3 hours ago, Fritag said:

 'real, modellers fabricate such stuff for themselves - as exemplified by the Baronial and Perduish vac:blush: formers.

Tightwads the pair of us! 

:rofl:

Haven't tried this yet though:

http://englishrussia.com/2008/11/10/the-sausage-admin/

 

OK. So I need to flag the absence of any results to show you today. Never having seen an episode of it and having heard many good things, Mrs B suggested we might watch an episode of House of Cards  at about 10am this morning. Its now 3pm and I am still in pyjamas. 

 

About to start episode 5.

 

Might see you tomorrow......

 

:D

 

 

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Tell me how it was for you , will ya

 

I know them cliffs, din't know they was a digaramm though

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This looks to be getting some good results Tony! 

 

Filling me with confidence and useful information for when I get more adventurous and actually get round to making a new nose for the b-24! (Actually chin would be more appropriate)

 

Rob

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17 hours ago, perdu said:

Tell me how it was for you , will ya

H of C ?

 

Pretty damned addictive in a semi-predictable way.

 

You learn nothing new about Washington politicking or indeed human nature of course, but it is powerfully entertaining stuff.

 

The fourth wall cynical schtick Spacey does to camera are frequently highlights of the narrative.

 

17 hours ago, perdu said:

I know them cliffs, 

Me too Bill. Heading back to those parts at the beginning of July for the

fdb34de0a4309c81f031c7617136c79d.jpg

See what I did there with that 'Cliff' reference? :whistle:

That's watching H of C for you - you get annoying! :lol:

 

14 hours ago, rob85 said:

This looks to be getting some good results Tony! 

 

Filling me with confidence and useful information for when I get more adventurous and actually get round to making a new nose for the b-24! (Actually chin would be more appropriate)

Don Roberto I confidently predict that you will be able to get that chin done no problem by following the advice I've been grateful to receive over the last few pages.:thumbsup2:

 

A bank holiday here today so going to try and put some time in on roughing-out the buck. I've decided to try shaping the fuselage and BT as a single unit, then cut this into upper and lower halves for vacforming purposes.

 

To enable the separation of the BT from the tail once vacformed I'm going to try and  include a recessed line in the buck to indicate the required cutting point.

 

I don't know if it will be visible using 1mm card for the process but it would be nice also if I could use a similar method to mark out the lower door and two side doors for cutting in a similar fashion. 

 

We'll see, won't we? :winkgrin:

 

 

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With all the surgery that went on, a re-assessment was obviously necessary to re-familiarize myself with the relevant sets of dimensions. which have - it has to be said - become a little more complex.

 

The new rear profile now:

34724693170_80c680caa8_c.jpg

Wider (obviously), but also including the necessity for both newer corner and ceiling profiles, as well as some fidddly business to attend to in order to allow for the protruding wing roots:

34980686001_e084875bba_c.jpg

Gawd but that cut looks brutal, however its not had a proper shave and brush up yet.

 

I mentioned above about changes to the fuselage which.  If you recall my previous false start involved spuriously mating a BT to an incompatible clamshell fuselage profile. If you actually look at some of the shots of the rear in the excellent 'J' walkarounds up on Prime Portal that I only discovered relatively recently, it's important not to take note that the there is a greater degree of curvature for the upper fuselage to reproduce, than there is for the shallow lower profile:

C-119J_51-8037_012.jpg

 

C-119J_51-8037_016.jpg

Image Credits: Bill Spidle http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/bill_spidle/c-119j_walk.htm

In other words, the shape of the rear fuselage we're adding on is symmetrical neither in the vertical or horizontal axes. Obvious, but necessary to remind myself when in the heat of transferring those details freehand to paper templates:

34724694070_c425d617f9_c.jpg

Although the buck needs to be slightly smaller than the kit dimensions in order to allow for the thickness of the vacform plastic, as a newbie to this process I've taken the precaution of scaling the templates to the actual dimensions, so that I can reduce them most accurately by holding it up against the kit for final shaping in the latter stages:

34724692350_35215a7183_c.jpg

I've also marked in on the side profile the measurement for where the protruding wing root needs to be taken into account also.

34301288173_07bee540a0_c.jpg

Those are glued on now with PVA. I'll come back to this later and block out the the main shapes out with a saw.

:bye:

Tony

 

 

 

 

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Lip smackingly entertaining now Tony

When's he going to star... Ah yes he's on it already

 

Its always good to go over part one a few times, I sometimes plan a task, then shelve it and plan a job again trying not to draw on the way I tackled it before

 

 

When I built my scratch build c23-A Sherpa I retackled a few of the sub plot parts of the build a couple of ways

 

Paid off in the end with a model that even now, a few years later looks as 'done and finished' as it did when I photographed the RFI pictures

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Hi Tony,

Sorry to butt in but I think you'll find that 1mm (about .040) is a bit thin.  It'll probably stretch down to .020 at the fuselage attachment end, just where you want it to be thick.  Try .060, which looks to be about the thickness of the kit walls.  Also, I'd wouldn't reduce the size of buck too much to begin with (you probably weren't) and do a trail run (you probably were).  In fact, maybe make the buck a bit longer as it's easier to trim a little off the big end after forming.

 

Great build, banter alone worth the price of admission.

 

Cheers,

 

Dennis

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Its going to be a field day for those of us with a white plastic card fetish when the rear fuselage starts going onto the model! I would concur with using the thicker plastic card if your machine's suction is strong enough.

 

Martian

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A Dyson™ Martian, I'm assured it is likely to be the Carlsberg™ of the suction world

 

Probably

 

I agree with leaving the length of the moulding over size, if you're treading the turgid groves of the Sherpa lately you may notice I did that with my canopy mould

 

Its always better to trim flatted plastic than try to rectify the rounded off bits at the edge. ☺

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1 hour ago, DMC said:

Hi Tony,

Sorry to butt in but I think you'll find that 1mm (about .040) is a bit thin.  It'll probably stretch down to .020 at the fuselage attachment end, just where you want it to be thick.  Try .060, which looks to be about the thickness of the kit walls.  Also, I'd wouldn't reduce the size of buck too much to begin with (you probably weren't) and do a trail run (you probably were).  In fact, maybe make the buck a bit longer as it's easier to trim a little off the big end after forming.

 

14 minutes ago, perdu said:

I agree with leaving the length of the moulding over size, if you're treading the turgid groves of the Sherpa lately you may notice I did that with my canopy mould

 

Its always better to trim flatted plastic than try to rectify the rounded off bits at the edge.

1 hour ago, Martian Hale said:

Its going to be a field day for those of us with a white plastic card fetish when the rear fuselage starts going onto the model! I would concur with using the thicker plastic card if your machine's suction is strong enough.

Dennis, Martian  & Bill: Thanks for that all. :D

 

As this is all new to me I had left the buck a few mill. proud compared to the kit out of caution: birrovabugga about the thickness issue though as I'd ordered a sheaf of 1mm stuff at the weekend - can you laminate this gear I wonder by sticking two sheets together?:hmmm:

 

 

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